So Hays is really being evasive here - I mean he may have buried it in 1990 with whatever goes down with Hoyt but he damn well knows what happened then in 2015 and simply tells Roland that Hoyt came to see him that day - but still lowplaying that??? i mean obviously whatever it was is significant but he tells Roland he "I made a decision. Yeah. Had other things to think about. Including a family. I let it go." That seems like it would be important enough now to tell Roland more detail. No???
9:54p, 2/17/19
The way Hayes said "I just didn't realize how different we were" when apologizing to Roland in 2015 made me think he was for sure outed as gay in 1990. But now I'm thinking they may have drifted apart b/c Hays couldn't continue w/ the investigation after meeting w/ Hoyt.
9:59p, 2/17/19
That's it? What in the hell is going on here!? I mean he could've shot out the windows or the tires at the least.
Roland is not gay btw.
Roland is not gay btw.
10:06p, 2/17/19
In reply to CorpsAg11
Don't forget that Hays also impersonated being Roland in gathering some evidence. That still might play into their rift and drifting apart.
CorpsAg11 said:
The way Hayes said "I just didn't realize how different we were" when apologizing to Roland in 2015 made me think he was for sure outed as gay in 1990. But now I'm thinking they may have drifted apart b/c Hays couldn't continue w/ the investigation after meeting w/ Hoyt.
Don't forget that Hays also impersonated being Roland in gathering some evidence. That still might play into their rift and drifting apart.
10:14p, 2/17/19
Did anyone happen to recognize Hoyt's voice? I thought I did and then the closing credits confirmed it...
(It's Mary Poppins, y'all!)
(It's Mary Poppins, y'all!)
10:16p, 2/17/19
In reply to TCTTS
well that was known a few episodes back -he was recognizable in the hunting photo on the wall behind Harris in his Hoyt office.
i think that was posted here.
TCTTS said:
Did anyone happen to recognize Hoyt's voice? I thought I did and then the closing credits confirmed it...
(It's Mary Poppins, y'all!)
well that was known a few episodes back -he was recognizable in the hunting photo on the wall behind Harris in his Hoyt office.
i think that was posted here.
10:20p, 2/17/19
I think the ending will be underwhelming and may end up with a Mississippi show for TD 4.
10:21p, 2/17/19
In reply to TCTTS
I thought it was.....read it somewhere anyway. Recognized in this:
TCTTS said:
Dang, I must have missed that.
I thought it was.....read it somewhere anyway. Recognized in this:
10:25p, 2/17/19
In reply to TCTTS
Chocolate pretzel?
I didnt see him in the photo but it only took 1 line to nail it. Great addition - I hope he gets to be a little crazy in his meeting with Purple.
TCTTS said:
Did anyone happen to recognize Hoyt's voice? I thought I did and then the closing credits confirmed it...
(It's Mary Poppins, y'all!)
Chocolate pretzel?
I didnt see him in the photo but it only took 1 line to nail it. Great addition - I hope he gets to be a little crazy in his meeting with Purple.
10:26p, 2/17/19
Way to many loose ends to be tied up and only one episode left to do it in. I am prepared to be underwhelmed.
10:50p, 2/17/19
What loose ends?
Hoyt stole Julie to be his new granddaughter. No pedi stuff happening.
Hoyt stole Julie to be his new granddaughter. No pedi stuff happening.
10:56p, 2/17/19
In reply to Sazerac
errrrr.....
What happened to Amelia?
What happened to Becca?
Who killed Will?
Where is Dan?
What part did Kindt play in all this - he is all too eager to close the case every time.
What is Elisa's real goal here and what does she know?
Who is the one eyed black man, what did he do and where is he now?
Is Hoyt's daughter nuts or in on all this or what?
Is this tied into S1 more - pedo stuff I guess you don't think so but..
They might have thought that at some time - do Rust and Marty show up for a cameo?
Oh and uhh...... where is Julie what has she been doing?
I mean... there are a few loose ends.
cclearman said:
What loose ends?
Hoyt stole Julie to be his new granddaughter. No pedi stuff happening.
errrrr.....
What happened to Amelia?
What happened to Becca?
Who killed Will?
Where is Dan?
What part did Kindt play in all this - he is all too eager to close the case every time.
What is Elisa's real goal here and what does she know?
Who is the one eyed black man, what did he do and where is he now?
Is Hoyt's daughter nuts or in on all this or what?
Is this tied into S1 more - pedo stuff I guess you don't think so but..
They might have thought that at some time - do Rust and Marty show up for a cameo?
Oh and uhh...... where is Julie what has she been doing?
I mean... there are a few loose ends.
11:08p, 2/17/19
In reply to Zombie Jon Snow
It seems like a lot of loose ends to tie up. I think Amelia's death isn't important to the story just like I think Becca's isn't important (although I don't know why they made it a point).
I really don't understand what the Elisa interview storyline means to this show.
I think tie-ins to S1 are just fan service. I can't imagine how they can bring that into a convoluted last episode and make it worth it.
I honestly don't know where this goes. It's a lot to tie up and doesn't seem like they have enough time.
Zombie Jon Snow said:cclearman said:
What loose ends?
Hoyt stole Julie to be his new granddaughter. No pedi stuff happening.
errrrr.....
What happened to Amelia?
What happened to Becca?
Who killed Will?
Where is Dan?
What part did Kindt play in all this - he is all too eager to close the case every time.
What is Elisa's real goal here and what does she know?
Who is the one eyed black man, what did he do and where is he now?
Is Hoyt's daughter nuts or in on all this or what?
Is this tied into S1 more - pedo stuff I guess you don't think so but..
They might have thought that at some time - do Rust and Marty show up for a cameo?
Oh and uhh...... where is Julie what has she been doing?
I mean... there are a few loose ends.
It seems like a lot of loose ends to tie up. I think Amelia's death isn't important to the story just like I think Becca's isn't important (although I don't know why they made it a point).
I really don't understand what the Elisa interview storyline means to this show.
I think tie-ins to S1 are just fan service. I can't imagine how they can bring that into a convoluted last episode and make it worth it.
I honestly don't know where this goes. It's a lot to tie up and doesn't seem like they have enough time.
11:12p, 2/17/19
In reply to cap-n-jack
I've come to terms with the fact that I have been for a while now. It's a good season with an interesting story and some damn good performances, but there's just no... spark... and it's been fairly slow and predictable, all things considered. Frankly, I don't even know what I'm supposed to be anticipating anymore. The conspiracy is seemingly 95% uncovered at this point, and it's been pretty clear for a while now that Hoyt is essentially in league with whatever super-rich-guy-pedo-ring Tuttle was part of from season one - or the Arkansas equivalent of it - and that Harris was his right hand man/partner in crime. So if Hoyt's at the top, and Harris was helping keep things in order, I really don't care whoever the middle-middle-man was or how, exactly, he procured children, especially since we basically know it's Watts, the one-eyed black guy, and basically how he did it.
I guess I am somewhat curious to know what Hoyt has to say to Hays in 1990, and maybe how Amelia died, but with Hoyt dead in 2014, I really don't care at this point what Hays and West uncover in 2014. Are they really going to make it to the top and expose the super-rich-guy-pedo-ring in the hour we have left?
I like the fact that, as mentioned earlier tonight, Hays' dementia has likely made him forget that he's NOT supposed to be investigating the case any more - which is probably the heart of the matter of the convo he has with Hoyt in 1990 - but ultimately that's just not something I don't care all that much about. In other words, the torch-carrying from season one to now was a cool idea in theory, but it's ultimately left the anticipation of the finale a bit hollow for me.
That, and I made the "mistake" of revisiting season one over the past week or so, and it really is on a completely different level in every conceivable way. In fact, I think it's flat out my favorite season of television - ever, period. The characters, case, storytelling, cinematography, atmosphere, timeline interaction, editing, etc. are all just flat out phenomenal. Doing such an immediate, side-by-side comparison probably isn't fair, but it's also underlined just how much of a store-brand version season three comes across on the whole.
That said, this season is still better than 99% of everything else on television, so I'll take it for what it's worth.
cap-n-jack said:
Way to many loose ends to be tied up and only one episode left to do it in. I am prepared to be underwhelmed.
I've come to terms with the fact that I have been for a while now. It's a good season with an interesting story and some damn good performances, but there's just no... spark... and it's been fairly slow and predictable, all things considered. Frankly, I don't even know what I'm supposed to be anticipating anymore. The conspiracy is seemingly 95% uncovered at this point, and it's been pretty clear for a while now that Hoyt is essentially in league with whatever super-rich-guy-pedo-ring Tuttle was part of from season one - or the Arkansas equivalent of it - and that Harris was his right hand man/partner in crime. So if Hoyt's at the top, and Harris was helping keep things in order, I really don't care whoever the middle-middle-man was or how, exactly, he procured children, especially since we basically know it's Watts, the one-eyed black guy, and basically how he did it.
I guess I am somewhat curious to know what Hoyt has to say to Hays in 1990, and maybe how Amelia died, but with Hoyt dead in 2014, I really don't care at this point what Hays and West uncover in 2014. Are they really going to make it to the top and expose the super-rich-guy-pedo-ring in the hour we have left?
I like the fact that, as mentioned earlier tonight, Hays' dementia has likely made him forget that he's NOT supposed to be investigating the case any more - which is probably the heart of the matter of the convo he has with Hoyt in 1990 - but ultimately that's just not something I don't care all that much about. In other words, the torch-carrying from season one to now was a cool idea in theory, but it's ultimately left the anticipation of the finale a bit hollow for me.
That, and I made the "mistake" of revisiting season one over the past week or so, and it really is on a completely different level in every conceivable way. In fact, I think it's flat out my favorite season of television - ever, period. The characters, case, storytelling, cinematography, atmosphere, timeline interaction, editing, etc. are all just flat out phenomenal. Doing such an immediate, side-by-side comparison probably isn't fair, but it's also underlined just how much of a store-brand version season three comes across on the whole.
That said, this season is still better than 99% of everything else on television, so I'll take it for what it's worth.
11:16p, 2/17/19
Will they find 2015 Julie in the finale? I am looking forward to that, if it happens...
11:17p, 2/17/19
In reply to CorpsAg11
Forgot about that. Yeah, I guess I'm curious too. But the fact that it didn't even cross my mind speaks volumes as well...
11:25p, 2/17/19
It's not going to tie up loose ends -- none of the other seasons did because the majority of the loose ends aren't really relevant to the story. As others have said when defending the show, it's a character-driven story about the detectives (and it does an excellent job at that)... but there isn't going to be some grand finale with major plot reveals.
11:57p, 2/17/19
Julie is probably the documentary lady and out for revenge that they quit looking for her/solving the case.
12:01a, 2/18/19
In reply to mhayden
That's kind of my whole point. I'm not expecting anything plot wise, but more importantly, there's almost nothing I'm anticipating, period. Even if we're talking just about character, where do the arcs go from here? Hays and West seem to be on pretty good terms now, and anything Hays learns in 2014 he's just going to forget anyway, in terms of facts or emotional journeys. I just don't know what this show is supposed to be or do in the final hour.
1:47a, 2/18/19
After watching episode 7 for the third time, I have 3 questions that I wonder if someone could explain to me.
?1) Where in the hell did Harris get the knife that he was trying to stab Purple with, after Purple uncured him in the barn when Purple and Roland were questioning him? NVM, watching it again, I think it was Purple's revolver that they were fighting over.
?2) How in the F*** could Hoyt possibly know what happened the night before he called Purple and told Purple he wanted to discuss the events of last night, as I understand them?
?3) Who in the hell is in the car outside 2015 Purple's house?
?1) Where in the hell did Harris get the knife that he was trying to stab Purple with, after Purple uncured him in the barn when Purple and Roland were questioning him? NVM, watching it again, I think it was Purple's revolver that they were fighting over.
?2) How in the F*** could Hoyt possibly know what happened the night before he called Purple and told Purple he wanted to discuss the events of last night, as I understand them?
?3) Who in the hell is in the car outside 2015 Purple's house?
5:49a, 2/18/19
In reply to Aggie12B
well......just thinking out loud
1. yeah it was his gun, harris reached for it on hays hip
2. ok so this may be a factor of storytelling out of order but recall that Hays and Roland had just visited Harris in 1990 at Hoyt Co., that could have raised their awareness. they have a lot of security and cameras not just Harris I imagine - the black man may be an an internal spy too. Then you had Tom going to Hoyt's house when he found out info from Dan - and apparently Harris took care of that problem. So again Hoyt is aware they are closing in and probably expecting another move based on what happened to Tom. Not a stretch to imagine he is watching Hays and Roland's every move and maybe even following Harris. They were right outside the company gates not that hard to spot really. A lot of speculation there but possible.
3. Maybe it's Julie. Or Becca. Who knows.
Aggie12B said:
After watching episode 7 for the third time, I have 3 questions that I wonder if someone could explain to me.
?1) Where in the hell did Harris get the knife that he was trying to stab Purple with, after Purple uncured him in the barn when Purple and Roland were questioning him? NVM, watching it again, I think it was Purple's revolver that they were fighting over.
?2) How in the F*** could Hoyt possibly know what happened the night before he called Purple and told Purple he wanted to discuss the events of last night, as I understand them?
?3) Who in the hell is in the car outside 2015 Purple's house?
well......just thinking out loud
1. yeah it was his gun, harris reached for it on hays hip
2. ok so this may be a factor of storytelling out of order but recall that Hays and Roland had just visited Harris in 1990 at Hoyt Co., that could have raised their awareness. they have a lot of security and cameras not just Harris I imagine - the black man may be an an internal spy too. Then you had Tom going to Hoyt's house when he found out info from Dan - and apparently Harris took care of that problem. So again Hoyt is aware they are closing in and probably expecting another move based on what happened to Tom. Not a stretch to imagine he is watching Hays and Roland's every move and maybe even following Harris. They were right outside the company gates not that hard to spot really. A lot of speculation there but possible.
3. Maybe it's Julie. Or Becca. Who knows.
6:33a, 2/18/19
Any thoughts as to why the heavy lady with the pictures of the kids (ghosts in the background) was hesitant to give up the picture? She seemed like she was trending toward hoarder so that was my first instinct, but it seemed like a random personality plug-in to bring up during that time of the show.
And why did we get the scene of him dropping Becca off at college? That introduced a 4th time line that seemed really out of left field.
And why did we get the scene of him dropping Becca off at college? That introduced a 4th time line that seemed really out of left field.
6:41a, 2/18/19
In reply to Stive
So yeah.....been pondering that 4th timeline. I don't know if it is just meaningful to Hays - something happened to Becca there or last time he saw her. Or maybe it was simply the payoff of the scene with the Hoyt maid where the young black girl triggers him to remembering and confusing taking Becca to college. Or maybe it was just a way of introducing the older Becca if we see her in 2015 now. Lot's of possibilities but I doubt it was done without reason.
As for the pumpkin lady something other sleuths caught was that the photo she gave Amelia was not the photo she showed Amelia originally and not the photo Hays has later in 2015. Did she switch them intentionally or is it some continuity error? Or did the cops go to her some other time and they got the photo on the left while Amelia got the photo on the right?
She showed her the photo on the left and thats the one Hays has in 2015. But she gave her the photo on the right. Two pics taken a few second apart. The people have moved and the car entered the frame but the two ghosts are still in the same spot. To me they are obviously waiting on Julie and Will.
Stive said:
Any thoughts as to why the heavy lady with the pictures of the kids (ghosts in the background) was hesitant to give up the picture? She seemed like she was trending toward hoarder so that was my first instinct, but it seemed like a random personality plug-in to bring up during that time of the show.
And why did we get the scene of him dropping Becca off at college? That introduced a 4th time line that seemed really out of left field.
So yeah.....been pondering that 4th timeline. I don't know if it is just meaningful to Hays - something happened to Becca there or last time he saw her. Or maybe it was simply the payoff of the scene with the Hoyt maid where the young black girl triggers him to remembering and confusing taking Becca to college. Or maybe it was just a way of introducing the older Becca if we see her in 2015 now. Lot's of possibilities but I doubt it was done without reason.
As for the pumpkin lady something other sleuths caught was that the photo she gave Amelia was not the photo she showed Amelia originally and not the photo Hays has later in 2015. Did she switch them intentionally or is it some continuity error? Or did the cops go to her some other time and they got the photo on the left while Amelia got the photo on the right?
She showed her the photo on the left and thats the one Hays has in 2015. But she gave her the photo on the right. Two pics taken a few second apart. The people have moved and the car entered the frame but the two ghosts are still in the same spot. To me they are obviously waiting on Julie and Will.
8:17a, 2/18/19
In reply to Stive
Because the hoarder is continuing to be part of the story, and she was around the mom so much, I'm wondering if she knew from the get go what happened to the kids and sent the note saying not to worry about Julie. The words are similar to the mom's that are quoted in the book because she had been reassuring the mom she did the right thing, using the same phrases. I never bought the theory the mom sent the note to make Tom feel better like Hays states. This is all under the theory that the mom sold her daughter to Hoyt.
I'm thinking the Becca college scene is inserted to fill in some of the missing pieces of the story. We've been curious about Becca, is she missing or dead or does Hays' dementia just make it mysterious? Sounds like mostly the latter.Stive said:
Any thoughts as to why the heavy lady with the pictures of the kids (ghosts in the background) was hesitant to give up the picture? She seemed like she was trending toward hoarder so that was my first instinct, but it seemed like a random personality plug-in to bring up during that time of the show.
And why did we get the scene of him dropping Becca off at college? That introduced a 4th time line that seemed really out of left field.
Because the hoarder is continuing to be part of the story, and she was around the mom so much, I'm wondering if she knew from the get go what happened to the kids and sent the note saying not to worry about Julie. The words are similar to the mom's that are quoted in the book because she had been reassuring the mom she did the right thing, using the same phrases. I never bought the theory the mom sent the note to make Tom feel better like Hays states. This is all under the theory that the mom sold her daughter to Hoyt.
8:26a, 2/18/19
In reply to Aggie12B
The episode came out last night and you've already watched it 3 times? Damn dude.Aggie12B said:
After watching episode 7 for the third time, I have 3 questions that I wonder if someone could explain to me.
?1) Where in the hell did Harris get the knife that he was trying to stab Purple with, after Purple uncured him in the barn when Purple and Roland were questioning him? NVM, watching it again, I think it was Purple's revolver that they were fighting over.
?2) How in the F*** could Hoyt possibly know what happened the night before he called Purple and told Purple he wanted to discuss the events of last night, as I understand them?
?3) Who in the hell is in the car outside 2015 Purple's house?
9:14a, 2/18/19
In reply to TCTTS
I thought last night made it pretty clear that Hoyt had the girl stolen for his daughter, to replace the one lost in the car wreck with her husband in '77. I don't think this has anything to do with a pedo ring.
Quote:
and it's been pretty clear for a while now that Hoyt is essentially in league with whatever super-rich-guy-pedo-ring Tuttle was part of from season one - or the Arkansas equivalent of it -
I thought last night made it pretty clear that Hoyt had the girl stolen for his daughter, to replace the one lost in the car wreck with her husband in '77. I don't think this has anything to do with a pedo ring.
9:32a, 2/18/19
Any possibility Lucy Purcell had a fling with Hoyt and Julie Purcell is really Julie Hoyt? And in that sense, Tom is not her real father (like she says on the tape) and she does have an aunt (as she tells the priest).
9:48a, 2/18/19
In reply to benchmark
Possible, but I think it's more likely that the fact the kid wasn't Tom's just made it easier for her to sell her to Hoyt. Less guilt attached in that regard when you justify to yourself that she's really only your kid. I don't think it goes deeper than that.benchmark said:
Any possibility Lucy Purcell had a fling with Hoyt and Julie Purcell is really Julie Hoyt? And in that sense, Tom is not her real father (like she says on the tape) and she does have an aunt (as she tells the priest).
10:16a, 2/18/19
Yeah, I was thinking Julie was really Hoyt's kid in the first place.
Funny thing is many on here are saying everything is pretty much wrapped up with little to reaveal and then the on going discussions keep going and going with branching theories.
I think there is still a huge reveal or two.
But, gotta give huge credit to the writers and story developers too: Using multiple defined time lines with the fog of age and dementia has raised the complexity to the viewer. Deeply flawed protagonist partners elevate the emotional depth in all levels of interaction. Season 1 was more fun with Woody and Matt, but Season 3 is deeper.
Funny thing is many on here are saying everything is pretty much wrapped up with little to reaveal and then the on going discussions keep going and going with branching theories.
I think there is still a huge reveal or two.
But, gotta give huge credit to the writers and story developers too: Using multiple defined time lines with the fog of age and dementia has raised the complexity to the viewer. Deeply flawed protagonist partners elevate the emotional depth in all levels of interaction. Season 1 was more fun with Woody and Matt, but Season 3 is deeper.
10:29a, 2/18/19
In reply to Southlake
agreeSouthlake said:
But, gotta give huge credit to the writers and story developers too: Using multiple defined time lines with the fog of age and dementia has raised the greatly increased the complexity to the viewer. Deeply flawed protagonist partners elevate the emotional depth in all levels of interaction. Season 1 was more fun with Woody and Matt, but Season 3 is deeper.
11:20a, 2/18/19
In reply to gomerschlep
gomerschlep said:
So season 4 is going to be set in Nebraska? Anybody else catch that?