***Official GAME OF THRONES Season 6 (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)***

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jenn96
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In reply to benchmark • 5:43p, 6/24/16
AG
Oh I agree, in the show context the Starks lost a tremendous amount of respect because of Robb's terrible, terrible choice to marry for love. But that's another thing that's different from the books - Robb married Jeyne Westerling because he had slept with her, and honor compelled him to make an honest woman of her. (A seduction that was masterminded by Tywin Lannister at that). It was still stupid but not quite as stupid. But the show is making it clear that the Northmen we've seen blame Robb for the Red Wedding, while in the books they pretty much blame the Freys.

I do think Lord Manderky will come through. But unless he comes through by nuking the Twins, to me it doesn't make up for the fact that the North -collectively - allowed Ned Starks legitimate son to be killed as a chess piece.
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benchmark
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5:46p, 6/24/16
AG
Earlier people commented on how unusual it was for Ned to have had a statue made of Lyanna in the crypt. Could it have been created as a clue to Jon's parentage? Did anyone ever comment if Jon had a resemblance to her/her statue?
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jenn96
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5:48p, 6/24/16
AG
Arya looks like Lyanna, and Jon and Arya look alike. But most people think they have the same father.
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MW03
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In reply to AggieSouth06 • 6:50p, 6/24/16
AG
quote:
1. https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/4pndkb/everything_jons_story_in_battle_of_the_*******s/ I love this context. Jon didn't charge in because he was reckless or angry. He charged in because he was beaten.

2. The North will Remember this Sunday. Everybody chill.


That's the single best interpretation of a GOT episode I've ever read.
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BJM1781
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9:58p, 6/24/16
AG
Jon Snow is the tits.
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sbarnett84
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10:15p, 6/24/16
AG
Jon had to charge. The next volley of arrows was coming to his exact position. No choice at that point.
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gougler08
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In reply to sbarnett84 • 8:02a, 6/25/16
AG
quote:
Jon had to charge. The next volley of arrows was coming to his exact position. No choice at that point.


There's always reverse too, get out of range and regroup
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to MW03 • 8:10a, 6/25/16
AG
quote:
quote:
1. https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/4pndkb/everything_jons_story_in_battle_of_the_*******s/ I love this context. Jon didn't charge in because he was reckless or angry. He charged in because he was beaten.

2. The North will Remember this Sunday. Everybody chill.


That's the single best interpretation of a GOT episode I've ever read.


Haha in the comments they call the waif, T-1000
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AgLaw02
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8:37a, 6/25/16
AG
This video breaks down both sides' battle strategies. Pretty cool. http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2016/06/21/a_tactical_look_at_the_battle_of_the_*******s_in_game_of_thrones_video.html
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Thomas Ford 91
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2:35p, 6/25/16
AG
That scene in the preview where Sansa asks LF "what do you want" and LF says "i thought you knew". I think he says "the Iron Throne".
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Goose06
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In reply to Thomas Ford 91 • 2:58p, 6/25/16
AG
quote:
That scene in the preview where Sansa asks LF "what do you want" and LF says "i thought you knew". I think he says "the Iron Throne".


Why would he need Sansa's help for the iron throne?
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bangobango
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In reply to Thomas Ford 91 • 3:42p, 6/25/16
AG
quote:
That scene in the preview where Sansa asks LF "what do you want" and LF says "i thought you knew". I think he says "the Iron Throne".


Iron throne? More like Iron Bone, iykwim.
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Buck O Five
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In reply to Thomas Ford 91 • 4:36p, 6/25/16
AG
quote:
That scene in the preview where Sansa asks LF "what do you want" and LF says "i thought you knew". I think he says "the Iron Throne".


From season 1:
Ros: And what do you want? Petyr 'Littlefinger' Baelish: Everything, my dear. Everything there is.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to AgLaw02 • 4:36p, 6/25/16
quote:
This video breaks down both sides' battle strategies. Pretty cool. http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2016/06/21/a_tactical_look_at_the_battle_of_the_*******s_in_game_of_thrones_video.html


I do love the line, "the archers were killed by a tragic continuity error."
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Thomas Ford 91
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In reply to Goose06 • 5:11p, 6/25/16
AG
quote:
quote:
That scene in the preview where Sansa asks LF "what do you want" and LF says "i thought you knew". I think he says "the Iron Throne".


Why would he need Sansa's help for the iron throne?
Sansa can be his Warden of the North.
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AgLaw
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In reply to Thomas Ford 91 • 8:41a, 6/26/16
AG
With the North won, LF need only sweep down, take the Twins and reinstall the Tullys at Riverrun, and he would control everything from the Wall to Harrenhall - in other words, about half of Westeros
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HeardAboutPerio
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In reply to benchmark • 9:13a, 6/26/16
AG
quote:
Earlier people commented on how unusual it was for Ned to have had a statue made of Lyanna in the crypt. Could it have been created as a clue to Jon's parentage? Did anyone ever comment if Jon had a resemblance to her/her statue?


I haven't read the books and the parentage of Jon has not (to my recollection) been put in doubt watching the show. So, how can this be revealed / resolved in a closing episode or series for the viewers to the point of comprehending the ramifications? I've read the thread but don't understand the implications for Jon or the show should his parentage be otherwise. Can someone help a brother out? TIA
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AgLaw
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In reply to HeardAboutPerio • 9:43a, 6/26/16
AG
quote:
quote:
Earlier people commented on how unusual it was for Ned to have had a statue made of Lyanna in the crypt. Could it have been created as a clue to Jon's parentage? Did anyone ever comment if Jon had a resemblance to her/her statue?


I haven't read the books and the parentage of Jon has not (to my recollection) been put in doubt watching the show. So, how can this be revealed / resolved in a closing episode or series for the viewers to the point of comprehending the ramifications? I've read the thread but don't understand the implications for Jon or the show should his parentage be otherwise. Can someone help a brother out? TIA

Lots of issues tied to Jon' parentage:

1. If Jon is a Targaryen, he could potentially be the true heir to the throne.
2. Part of the Azor Ahai prophecy requires Targaryen blood. (Not sure the prophecy requires this, though. I've seen conflicting information.)
3. If he is Rhaegar's son, he could be the "prince hat was promised" - another Azor Ahai link.
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HeardAboutPerio
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In reply to AgLaw • 9:56a, 6/26/16
AG
Thanks
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Goose06
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In reply to HeardAboutPerio • 9:58a, 6/26/16
AG
quote:
quote:
Earlier people commented on how unusual it was for Ned to have had a statue made of Lyanna in the crypt. Could it have been created as a clue to Jon's parentage? Did anyone ever comment if Jon had a resemblance to her/her statue?


I haven't read the books and the parentage of Jon has not (to my recollection) been put in doubt watching the show. So, how can this be revealed / resolved in a closing episode or series for the viewers to the point of comprehending the ramifications? I've read the thread but don't understand the implications for Jon or the show should his parentage be otherwise. Can someone help a brother out? TIA


1. When heading to the wall, Ned told jon he would tell him about his mother next time he saw him

2. Ned was so opposed to sending someone to kill the Targaryans (dany and viserys) that he resigned as hand to the king

3. Ned dreams the same dream several times which would end with his sister dying at the tower of joy (presumably during child birth) saying "promise me Ned, promise me!"

4. Bran told a story in the crypt in season 1 about Lyanna being kidnapped by rheagar targaryan

5. Ned stark is portrayed as the most honorable man in westerns and yet after marrying catelyn we are to believe he fathered a ******* and 9 months after having this supposed fling he goes and gets the ******* to keep and bring home with him? Multiple characters in the show note that this is out of character for Ned. Stannis in season 5 said something along the lines of "that's not Ned's way" when stannis' wife says jon is the son of a tavern ****. Ned in season 1 refuses to tell King Robert anything about jons mom other than her name Wylla. River says "must have been a rare wench to make Eddard stark lose his honor".

6. Oberyn tells Tyrion that rheagar left his sister (Elia) for another woman.

7. Little finger told Sansa this story: "Lord Whent had a great tourney at Harrenhall ... Lyanna was already promised to Robert ... the last two riders were Barristan Selmy and Rhaegar Targaryen. When Rhaegar won everyone cheered for their prince ... until he rode right past his wife, Elia Martell, and all the smiles died ... He rode past his wife and lay a crown of winter roses in Lyanna's lap, blue with frost ... How many tens of thousands had to die because Rhaegar chose your aunt?"

This story happened in the same episode as where stannis questioned jons parentage and in that same episode Barriston and Jorah tell dany a story about rheagar.
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AgLaw
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In reply to HeardAboutPerio • 10:00a, 6/26/16
AG
You bet. If you've enjoyed the show, you ought to give the books a try. I've read the series twice, and my son - who is not a reader - is on his second read.
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Goose06
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10:02a, 6/26/16
AG
I skimmed the post and thought the question was how would show watchers think jon might be the son of rheagar and Lyanna now i see the question was what are the implications... I think aglaw handled that. I would add that another implication is jon might be able to ride dragons. That's 2 dragon riders for 3 dragons. Could Tyrion be the 3rd?
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AgLaw
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10:08a, 6/26/16
AG
Another angle tied to the "true heir" issue is that if Tommen dies (which prophecy says he will), the Baratheon line dies with him. This means you backtrack lineage through the Baratheons to the Targaryena, which means the rightful heir to the throne is Dany - unless Jon is a true born Targaryen.
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bangobango
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In reply to HeardAboutPerio • 10:19a, 6/26/16
AG
quote:
quote:
Earlier people commented on how unusual it was for Ned to have had a statue made of Lyanna in the crypt. Could it have been created as a clue to Jon's parentage? Did anyone ever comment if Jon had a resemblance to her/her statue?


I haven't read the books and the parentage of Jon has not (to my recollection) been put in doubt watching the show. So, how can this be revealed / resolved in a closing episode or series for the viewers to the point of comprehending the ramifications? I've read the thread but don't understand the implications for Jon or the show should his parentage be otherwise. Can someone help a brother out? TIA


They're going to have to do a lot of work with the "previously on" part of the show, and maybe have another bit of exposition during the course of the show for it to become relevant to moat show only watchers.
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suburban cowboy
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10:26a, 6/26/16
AG
TMI
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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to bangobango • 10:56a, 6/26/16
AG
quote:
quote:
quote:
Earlier people commented on how unusual it was for Ned to have had a statue made of Lyanna in the crypt. Could it have been created as a clue to Jon's parentage? Did anyone ever comment if Jon had a resemblance to her/her statue?


I haven't read the books and the parentage of Jon has not (to my recollection) been put in doubt watching the show. So, how can this be revealed / resolved in a closing episode or series for the viewers to the point of comprehending the ramifications? I've read the thread but don't understand the implications for Jon or the show should his parentage be otherwise. Can someone help a brother out? TIA


They're going to have to do a lot of work with the "previously on" part of the show, and maybe have another bit of exposition during the course of the show for it to become relevant to moat show only watchers.

Really. I know a lot of show only watchers that are aware of the theory and also some that figured soemthing is up at least with his parentage.

So let's say they simply reveal that Eddards sister Lyanna gave birth in the tower to a boy...and make it obvious that boy is Jon Snow - he has been called ******* enough times I think most people would realize oh hey he isn't Eddard's ******* he was protecting him from something.

Now all they really need to do is make it apparent that not only is he not a ******* but he is the son of the former Targaryen Prince and therefore has a claim to the throne - as much as any recent claimant really.

That can be done through some simple exposition - someone speaking of the implications if that were true (Benjen or Littlefinger or Varys or Tyrion, some more or less authority on the subject).

I think simply saying he is a Targaryen would be enough for most show watchers to get the implications - he is more than a *******, may have dragons blood like Dany, has a claim to the throne, etc.

It's not really that complicated and they don't have to know every detail just the big picture.



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HeardAboutPerio
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In reply to bangobango • 10:56a, 6/26/16
AG
That's my opinion as well. None of what was outlined above really lingers with me not having read the books. A lengthy previously on scene may put it together but not to the level of detail outlined here. It's fascinating. I'll have to read the books. I find reading books after a series is more rewarding as opposed to disappointments in what a series lacks.

From a moat viewer perspective you definitely get the vibe Jon is meant for greatness especially with his perseverance through so much. To say I grasped his lineage being a puzzle piece to this destiny would be wrong. They do a great job of instilling heartfelt support for Jon and a twist into royal lineage would be easily accepted. You want him to be more than the ******* and give the middle finger to the high born rulers.
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McInnis 03
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11:15a, 6/26/16
AG
I'm guessing tommen dies tonight and we see inside the tower of joy
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Quincey P. Morris
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11:18a, 6/26/16
AG
I've only read the very first part of the books so most of my knowledge is from the show. It seemed from the first episode that it was phenomenally out of character for Ned Stark to cheat on his wife. I always figured there was something there that was going to be outlined later. It seemed pretty obvious from the get go.
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Goose06
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In reply to Quincey P. Morris • 11:19a, 6/26/16
AG
quote:
I've only read the very first part of the books so most of my knowledge is from the show. It seemed from the first episode that it was phenomenally out of character for Ned Stark to cheat on his wife. I always figured there was something there that was going to be outlined later. It seemed pretty obvious from the get go.


Agreed. And you and I are in the same boat. I finished the first book and I just started the second book.
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BowSowy
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11:35a, 6/26/16
AG
My question is who in the ASOIAF world would actually know that Jon is a Targaryen and probably the heir to the throne? AFAIK, the only living people who know (or will know) are Bran and Howland Reed, neither of whom I think would be able to make enough noise for the realm to realize it. I suppose the red priests/priestesses would know?

I guess I'm wondering if it matters that Jon is Targaryen in context of controlling the throne? I figure that there will be some sort of magical/mystical event that happens that makes Dany realize Jon is her kin and will help her take the seven kingdoms? Now that I think about it, it really is starting to seem like Jon's lineage isn't about the throne or the battle for the seven kingdoms, at all. It seems like it's only about Azor Ahai and the battle against the white walkers. Am I off in thinking this?
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AgLaw
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In reply to BowSowy • 11:46a, 6/26/16
AG
Good question. Maybe Varys knows the truth, as well.
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jenn96
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12:11p, 6/26/16
AG
I posted this way up thread but it's still relevant - Re Who knows about Jon's parentage. I've long though that somebody smart was going to stumble on it just by matter of deduction - not on any proof, but by actually thinking it over. Littlefinger and Tyrion were two I could see figuring it out. I always imagined Tyrion talking to Dany about the rebellion and it going something like this:

"Robert always claimed that Rhaegor had kidnapped and raped Lyanna but I always wondered if she chose him over a man like Robert. They were together for nearly a year before Robert killed him. Not that it matters now. Ned Stark went to Dorne to get her and came home with her body and a ******* boy of his own - completely out of character for him, by the way, the man was the soul of honor but somehow came home ... with a baby. From Dorne. I'll be damned."

Or something like that. Again, not that it establishes any proof, but I could see them figuring it out. Littlefinger could easily have followed a similar thought process, and then used his contacts to check on some things - like why in the world 3 members of the Kingsguard were at TOJ.
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Old School Rucking
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In reply to jenn96 • 1:04p, 6/26/16
AG
quote:
The man was the soul of honor


Ned was the most dishonorable character in the show - if only for his hypocrisy. He had honor when it didn't cost him anything. He was happy to lop of someone else's head or spill someone else's dirty secret. He wasn't willing to tell King Robert a hard truth or stick up for what he believed when his children's lives were on the line. Ned was also all too happy to take credit for killing a greater warrior and a greater man - Ser Arthur Dayne.
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jenn96
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In reply to Old School Rucking • 1:12p, 6/26/16
AG
Sure, that's your opinion and your examples are valid. But in Westeros, the point of view among the characters -friend and foe to Ned - is that he was a very honorable guy. Especially on matters of basic old fashioned morality like cheating on his wife and getting another woman pregnant. It was out of character for him according to almost every single person whose ever commented on it. But he said Jon was his son so people believed it.

My point above was that it seems like it might have occurred to at least one clever character that siring a child out of wedlock wasn't like Ned at all - but protecting his sister's Targaryan ******* from the vengeful king who had encouraged the deaths of Rhaegar's other young children might be.
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