All I can say about that episode is wow. That battle scene was absolutely gut wrenching. Like others have said, it's on par with the D-Day scene from Saving Private Ryan. I had chills when Jon was standing there facing the cavalry with that music in the background. Seeing Tormunds face when he was wounded and they were surrounded and getting slaughtered was saddening. That's the first time I've ever felt nervous watching a battle scene in a movie or tv show. Even though they won, I still had this empty feeling. Jons army was pretty much slaughtered and Sansa is starting to have a bit of an evil vibe about her. It almost feels like she is going to screw Jon over in the future. It was an outstanding episode and everyone involved in the making should be proud. It makes you wonder. If they were able to make this battle so amazing and give viewers such an emotional experience; how good will the battle against the Others for the dawn be?

"All men must die" will be taken very literally and grrm is going to leave us with Seveneves

Maybe old news, but watching old clips and came across this introduction I had forgot about concerning everybody's favorite ten year old badass of Bear Island:

So if we go back and look at the two truths and a lie from the girls that play Arya and Sansa that we discussed previously we can make some updates.

Sansa said:
Ramsay Dies
Lady Stoneheart returns
Arya checks three people off her list

So Since Ramsay died that means in the next episode we should see LSH or Arya check off 3 people from her list. Assuming this was actually truthful and one of the two is actually true.

The director confirmed that Ghost was all over the original storyboards for the battle but was way too expensive to do. He basically said it was either Ghost or Wun Wun, because either way they have to composite them in later and doing both would have been a nightmare.

I guess it's relatively easy to justify. Based on their original plan to buckle their lines and surround the Bolton cavalry, Ghost would have added too much chaos and unpredictability to their lines. Or something...

quote:

---

So if we go back and look at the two truths and a lie from the girls that play Arya and Sansa that we discussed previously we can make some updates.

Sansa said:
Ramsay Dies
Lady Stoneheart returns
Arya checks three people off her list

So Since Ramsay died that means in the next episode we should see LSH or Arya check off 3 people from her list. Assuming this was actually truthful and one of the two is actually true.

---

Cersei, Walder Frey, The Mountain, The Hound (is he still on it?), Melisandre, Beric, Thoros, Ilyn Payne.

If Cersei blows of King's landing then that could be herself, the mountain, & Payne (I assume he's still there). Jamie is with the Freys. Maybe Walder crosses the line and Jamie crossed him off the list. Melisandre should get her head chopped off if Jon really is the new lord of Winterfell. Beric, Thoros, & the Hound seem safe. I doubt they're even shown in the finale.

quote:

---

The director confirmed that Ghost was all over the original storyboards for the battle but was way too expensive to do. He basically said it was either Ghost or Wun Wun, because either way they have to composite them in later and doing both would have been a nightmare.

I guess it's relatively easy to justify. Based on their original plan to buckle their lines and surround the Bolton cavalry, Ghost would have added too much chaos and unpredictability to their lines. Or something...

---

Ghost also not visible above the massive pileup the way Wun Wun was. So Ghost gets much less screentime by default.

Would seem to me though that you could have then kept Ghosts appearances to a few close in shots - like the hand to hand stuff. Have him running out initially with Jon. Then could have just had a few shots of him ripping throats out, etc. Then not show him until they are chasing Ramsay back to the castle. Of course he would be in danger from the arrows too.

It brings a lot of complicated issues. I was fine with him not being there. He has tended to be at smaller encounters where Jon is in danger.

I figured budget was the answer. As someone mentioned I think on this thread, it would've been great to see him once near the end of the battle, with his fur covered in blood. Maybe when they're surrounded by the Boltons.

I'm going to be so pissed if Arya's 3 names is true and includes Beric, Thoros and/or Mel.

Talk about a cheap out to not cut into the meat of the list.

List as it stands today in show:
[ol]

Joffrey Baratheon - Dead former king and all around asshat.

Cersei Lannister - Mother of Joffrey and overall manipulative *****.

Walder Frey - Betrayer of Robb and orchestrated the murder of Robb & Catelyn.

Meryn Trant - Member of the Kingsguard whom Arya blames for the death of Syrio Forel

Tywin Lannister - Head of house Lannister, father of Cersei and Jaime.

Mellisandre (the Red Woman) - Stannis' influential cohort, wanted to kill Gendry for blood magic.

Beric Dondarrion - Leader of the Brotherhood Without Banners, sold Gendry out to Mellisandre.

Thoros of Myr - Member of the Brotherhood Without Banners, sold Gendry out to Mellisandre.

Ilyn Payne - Executioner ("King's Justice") who beheaded Ned Stark.

Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) - Knight who works for house Lannister.

Sandor Clegane (The Hound) - Former servant of house Lannister.

[/ol]

quote:

---

All I can say about that episode is wow. That battle scene was absolutely gut wrenching. Like others have said, it's on par with the D-Day scene from Saving Private Ryan. I had chills when Jon was standing there facing the cavalry with that music in the background. Seeing Tormunds face when he was wounded and they were surrounded and getting slaughtered was saddening. That's the first time I've ever felt nervous watching a battle scene in a movie or tv show. Even though they won, I still had this empty feeling. Jons army was pretty much slaughtered and Sansa is starting to have a bit of an evil vibe about her. It almost feels like she is going to screw Jon over in the future. It was an outstanding episode and everyone involved in the making should be proud. It makes you wonder. If they were able to make this battle so amazing and give viewers such an emotional experience; how good will the battle against the Others for the dawn be?

---

A lot of that is Martins style that most main characters are not safe. Normal shows you can watch that battle and know the main guys will make it out. But watching it, not really knowing, makes it more intense.

Could it be that the 3 names already checked off the list are the 3 being referenced? Was the truth that "at the end of this season Arya will have checked off 3 names" or "during the season Arya will check off 3 names"? And when did Meryn Trant get checked off? Late last season or early this season?

I think it was the last episode of season 5. Or one of the last. She killed him in the brothel

Yeah, it's why she was blinded.

I read an article online that said the writes left too much "out". That Sansa is either cunning and evil or not so cunning, but very lucky and good. She can't be both. But since the writing was crap for this thread (Sansa sends a letter to LF) we don't know which.

It's like the bad writing on the Arya story line after she blew out the candle the first time,.

I'd have to agree on both the Sansa and Arya story lines.

BOB apparently just broke BB's record for highest-rated episode of all time.

quote:

---

I read an article online that said the writes left too much "out". That Sansa is either cunning and evil or not so cunning, but very lucky and good. She can't be both. But since the writing was crap for this thread (Sansa sends a letter to LF) we don't know which.

It's like the bad writing on the Arya story line after she blew out the candle the first time,.

I'd have to agree on both the Sansa and Arya story lines.

---

I still disagree with the Arya storyline. Foreshadowing how she would eventually kill the Waif isn't the same as skipping the entirety of the conflict. How stupid would the Waif be to just walts right into a pitch black room with a girl she trained to fight while blind and take her on 1-on-1 fully healthy? She's a trained assassin, she would wait for a better opportunity to kill her. Hence why we needed all the stuff in the middle.

As for Sansa, maybe we're not supposed to know YET if she is just lucky or actually cunning and heel turning.

The complaints are about Arya's lack of foresight.

quote:

---

The complaints are about Arya's lack of foresight.

---

Right, but she is just a trainee while the Waif has been a master assassin for years. Arya was never going to outsmart the Waif.

It's ok, we don't have to get into this again, I just don't agree and I also don't think the Arya storyline is proof that they also messed up the Sansa storyline.

I disagree, I think everything in the Sansa storyline was fairly calculated. She was emotionally manipulating Jon to attack Winterfell, and on the eve of the battle, she was trying to get him to think rationally/strategically and not fall prey to Ramsay's manipulations.

She also purposely held back the information about the Vale. I think this will be explained in the finale, or at least I hope so. But Sansa is definitely coming into her own as a cunning and manipulative character.

(Not saying it as a negative, just as a great evolution of her character.)

As much as I'd love to believe that Sansa is the coldest Stark ***** on earth and masterfully manipulative and a key player in the game, I really think she just saw a chance to take back her home via Jon and, as she obviously stated, when they needed more men thought of Littlefinger as the answer.

She's no doubt coming into her own as a heartless Lady of the new world, but she's about to learn the cost of calling the Vale.

I'm not sure that's manipulative. I think that's recognizing the situation after the face to face with Ramsey. Partially why she took off I'd think.

I have faith that the Stark blood will win out with Sansa over the experiences with Joff, Cercei, LF, and Ramsey. I think those toughened her, but I trust her instinct will still be family first. Jon is her brother.

quote:

---

BOB apparently just broke BB's record for highest-rated episode of all time.

---

DAMN!!!!

The last time I remember feeling as anxious as I did during the trample scene, was during Ozymandias when Walt and Skyler are fighting over the knife.

quote:

---

The last time I remember feeling as anxious as I did during the trample scene, was during Ozymandias when Walt and Skyler are fighting over the knife.

---

The BB finale was trash compared to that episode. Hopefully not the same for GOT.

quote:

---

quote:

---

The complaints are about Arya's lack of foresight.

---

Right, but she is just a trainee while the Waif has been a master assassin for years. Arya was never going to outsmart the Waif.

It's ok, we don't have to get into this again, I just don't agree and I also don't think the Arya storyline is proof that they also messed up the Sansa storyline.

---

She doesn't have to outsmart her...she was coming for her. But she also should never be just walking without a care in the world basically saying "please come stab me".

It was a plot weakness/contrivance/whatever for sure. If instead she were walking (to draw her out) and the old lady approached her and she realized it and took off running then and was wounded in a fight but jumped off a bridge and got away....ok that works.

the Sansa part I'm ok with right now. Lots of things could have happened and might make sense. We just don't know yet.

A. It could have just been convenient - she doesn't know LF is coming, stayed back at camp for the BOB (as did the other ladies by the way - Mormont and Melisandre) and LF shows up - she says "awesome let's go ride to the rescue of Jons army".

B. It could be she was manipulative about it all along and knew LF was coming - I like that less because she put Jon in a very dangerous spot for little reason. But it still works and makes Sansa suddenly very savvy and a force going forward. Drama.

C. Possible but there is no logical way - she rode out of camp the night before to go get LF - she would not know where they were and Moat Cailin where she thinks they are is about 400 (or more) miles away.

I think A or B and I'm ok with either.

quote:

---

Wut , I liked BB finale

---

yeah as did most. IMDB has it as 2nd highest episode with 92.4% giving it a 10.0

quote:

---

quote:

---

The last time I remember feeling as anxious as I did during the trample scene, was during Ozymandias when Walt and Skyler are fighting over the knife.

---

The BB finale was trash compared to that episode. Hopefully not the same for GOT.

---

That's traditionally been the case in most GoT seasons. Episode 9 is the "climax" of the season, 10 is wrapping up plotlines and setting up the next season. This is particularly true in Seasons 1-3.

quote:

---

quote:

---

Wut , I liked BB finale

---

yeah as did most. IMDB has it as 2nd highest episode with 92.4% giving it a 10.0

---

I hated it. It wasn't nearly as bad as the Dexter ending though! This is just the most recent one in my head, but The Walking Dead is how you end a season.