Yeah, after a few days, I'm thinking the Jaime-Edmure scene was the reason for that whole subplot, maybe for that exactly that reason. I guess that plotline won't bear fruit until next season, cause as far as this season goes it does feel a bit like time wasted more than anything.

Any chance that Jaime tells Edmure about Sansa/Jon marching on Winterfell? I don't see any particular reason why he'd want them to help the Starks but maybe they see Boltons as enemies now. Either way, the Tullys are basically on their ass now right?

Edit: Maybe offscreen he made the same promise to him about letting them go safely if they marched north? It would make for a solid plot twist to have the Tullys be the ones to show up and save the day at the last minute instead of the Vale.

I don't know what to think about the Tullys. I know that Jaime basically beat the Freys into submission, but who's to say the Freys won't go back after the Tullys when/if Jaime leaves?

Edit: Do the Tullys have beef with Littlefinger?

not that he knows anything - or I'm sure he would not have said it but...

Nikolaj Coster-Waldau said in an interview about not taking the sword back from Brienne:

quote:

---

I'm sure the writers already planned that years ago. This was his moment. Just take the sword back! I was like, 'Just take it. Take it! You know it's going to come back and haunt you.'

---

He also says Brienne would end Jaime quick:

quote:

---

There's no question that if it comes to that, they'll both do it. And obviously she's going to kill him in an instant.

---

I don't remember which thread it was on (this or show only) discussing Arya and not using this faceless man skill - how they wanted her to use it or assumed she would use it in Westeros.

Well it occurs to me she still could.

I mean she snuck into the House of B&W and put the Waif's face up there - presumably satisfying the many faced god - before Jaqen found her there. Although the Waif killed Lady Crane so really it was already satisfied. But anyway I digress.....

Perhaps before Jaqen arrived she took a face with her.....and just thinking out loud here....assuming we are not getting LSH.....what if the face she took was Catelyn's. She goes back for revenge on the Frey's and uses Catelyn's face.

Nah. Would be cool. But maybe too much of a departure from the books with LSH anyway.

But she could have taken another face to use. We'll see I guess.

Thoughts and predictions:

Jaime didn't become a villain in the scene with Edmure. Jaime has already been that guy to do whatever he thinks he needs to do to achieve a goal, especially where Cersei is concerned. As someone said before, he's a tragic character, not a hero or a villain.

I don't think he'll let the Tully army go north to help Sansa. He just disarmed and took prisoner the entire army inside Riverrun. Edmure is "lord" of that castle in name only, b/c Jaime just gave it back to the Freys.

Speaking of the north, I doubt Jaime cares much about what happens up there, but the Boltons helped Tywin and the Lannisters end the Northern rebellion. It may be possible that if/when Jaime gets back to King's landing he goes to support the Boltons, or he takes his army from Riverrun and tries to go north. I don't think he'll leave it in the Riverlands to babysit the Freys.

So, this means we have 2 major armies that could potentially show up in the north b/w Jaime's and Littlefinger's. I don't think Jaime will take his army north, though.

Arya will not have taken any faces from the house of black and white. She has made the statement that she is Arya Stark. Arya needs only one face, her own. It's not like anyone would recognize her, anyway.

quote:

---

Tangent: For those of you show watchers who want to try the books but don't have the literary time, I'd encourage you to try the audiobooks as read by Roy Dotrice. They're done so well, he gives them complete justice for what they are in his reading and you can accelerate it do whatever speed you determine is appropriate for you to accelerate through them.

I go through them at roughly 1.5x real-time and the 40 hr books take me some 25+ hours to get through.

---

I can't stand Dotrice... I wish someone would re-do these with a younger voice. I feel like I am being read to by Grand Maester Pycelle.

Johnathan Keeble
Matt Bates
Jamie Glover

Are all superior orators.

He says don't make threats you can't carry out then proceeds to threaten to catapult a baby. Pretty evil to me.

quote:

---

He says don't make threats you can't carry out then proceeds to threaten to catapult a baby. Pretty evil to me.

---

Again, I don't doubt that Jaime COULD have been evil. I 100% believed him that he would follow through with that threat if he had to. That would have then made him evil. But making such a threat ultimately led to the peaceful resolution that saved thousands of lives. It's hard to say that is clear-cut evil.

Any chance that Bran plays a role in the Battle of the Bast**ds?

Read a good theory on Varys' departure from Reddit:

Is there any doubt that the Master of Whisperer's knew about 100's of ships heading their way, yet he told nobody?
Is it just convenience that he bailed out to safety before arrival of the armada?
Is he off to Westeros to sabatage Dany? He serves only the realm and the peace....with Dany now taking help from the Red Priestesses and the lord of light, would this not cause concern for him?

quote:

---

Thoughts and predictions:

Jaime didn't become a villain in the scene with Edmure. Jaime has already been that guy to do whatever he thinks he needs to do to achieve a goal, especially where Cersei is concerned. As someone said before, he's a tragic character, not a hero or a villain.

I don't think he'll let the Tully army go north to help Sansa. He just disarmed and took prisoner the entire army inside Riverrun. Edmure is "lord" of that castle in name only, b/c Jaime just gave it back to the Freys.

Speaking of the north, I doubt Jaime cares much about what happens up there, but the Boltons helped Tywin and the Lannisters end the Northern rebellion. It may be possible that if/when Jaime gets back to King's landing he goes to support the Boltons, or he takes his army from Riverrun and tries to go north. I don't think he'll leave it in the Riverlands to babysit the Freys.

So, this means we have 2 major armies that could potentially show up in the north b/w Jaime's and Littlefinger's. I don't think Jaime will take his army north, though.

Arya will not have taken any faces from the house of black and white. She has made the statement that she is Arya Stark. Arya needs only one face, her own. It's not like anyone would recognize her, anyway.

---

Agreed for the most part.

Jamie already did what he was sent/intended to do - take back Riverrun from the Blackfish and return it to the Freys. He has no intentions of going north. Not to mention it's about a 1000 miles to Winterfell which would take a while with an army.

a. he doesn't know anything is amiss up there, as far as they know the Boltons are still holding it and are loyal to the Lannisters.
b. he wants to get back to Cersei and KL ASAP

This was an obvious move (literally by Tommen, and plotwise by the writers) to get Jamie out of KL. Cersei is now all alone except for the Mountain and maybe Qyburn. She tends not to make the best decisions when left on her own. S*** is gonna go down in KL now.....book it.

quote:

---

Read a good theory on Varys' departure from Reddit:

Is there any doubt that the Master of Whisperer's knew about 100's of ships heading their way, yet he told nobody?
Is it just convenience that he bailed out to safety before arrival of the armada?
Is he off to Westeros to sabatage Dany? He serves only the realm and the peace....with Dany now taking help from the Red Priestesses and the lord of light, would this not cause concern for him?

---

Well for starters, Tyrion knew where he was going.

quote:

---

quote:

---

Read a good theory on Varys' departure from Reddit:

Is there any doubt that the Master of Whisperer's knew about 100's of ships heading their way, yet he told nobody?
Is it just convenience that he bailed out to safety before arrival of the armada?
Is he off to Westeros to sabatage Dany? He serves only the realm and the peace....with Dany now taking help from the Red Priestesses and the lord of light, would this not cause concern for him?

---

Well for starters, Tyrion knew where he was going.

---

i doubt about 99% of that.

and it;s not a theory....it's just a bunch of vague questions.

1. I doubt he knows about the ships. he would mention it to Tyrion I believe. you are suggesting cinspiracy though and while possible I still doubt it.
2. coincidence
3. he doesn't want it ruler-less and he has supported the Targaryens pretty much all along. So no.

If anything he is either

a. going to smooth the way for Dany and her army
b. going to remove some other powers that stand in their way possibly
c. both

The Dothraki are busy sacking (retaking) the other slaver cities while The Master's forces are attacking Mereen. Just a guess.

quote:

---

The Dothraki are busy sacking (retaking) the other slaver cities while The Master's forces are attacking Mereen. Just a guess.

---

That would be cool considering Drogon could pretty much take out the entire armada by himself.

Honestly though, I doubt Dany had the foresight to plan things out that way.

I'm pretty sure she knew the other cities had reverted to slavery, so she might have told Daario to swing by. Depending on where they are in relation to Mereen and the other cities.

quote:

---

I'm pretty sure she knew the other cities had reverted to slavery, so she might have told Daario to swing by. Depending on where they are in relation to Mereen and the other cities.

---

I mean, it is possible, but what makes you "pretty sure"? There's been nothing in the show to indicate someone told her while they were on the road. It's not like Tyrion, who doesn't know where she is, could send a raven to her travelling horse pack. Perhaps she ran into travelers on the road that was up to date on most current political changes in each city?

I agree.

So I had a mini-revelation and wanted to share it with y'all. It's pretty "duh" on the surface, but almost makes a little bit of sense the longer you think about it.

So when Bran accidentally HODORED Hodor, I think it was something along the lines of someone from the future being in the past and then the person in the past hearing the words from someone in the future. I'm not totally sure I've worked out exactly WHAT was the trigger, but I digress.

Theory: What if, as Ned was climbing the stairs of the TOJ, he heard Bran's voice say "father!" and it momentarily got stuck in his mind? If you follow the Hodor theory but dilute it some since it was obviously way less intense, could you then figure that Bran was responsible for giving Ned the idea to lie and say he was Jon's father? What if we take it one step further and somehow it crossed a few wires in Ned's head and made Ned actually believe he was the father of the baby he came across just seconds later?


Maybe, maybe not, but if nothing else, it was at least a pretty cool bit of foreshadowing!

I seem to remember an episode last season where someone told her one of the cities (or multiple cities) had been taken by the masters. I could be wrong

That was my actual thought as well. I think it was just the lie of "father" that Ned had but I think that is what did it.

quote:

---

So I had a mini-revelation and wanted to share it with y'all. It's pretty "duh" on the surface, but almost makes a little bit of sense the longer you think about it.

So when Bran accidentally HODORED Hodor, I think it was something along the lines of someone from the future being in the past and then the person in the past hearing the words from someone in the future. I'm not totally sure I've worked out exactly WHAT was the trigger, but I digress.

Theory: What if, as Ned was climbing the stairs of the TOJ, he heard Bran's voice say "father!" and it momentarily got stuck in his mind? If you follow the Hodor theory but dilute it some since it was obviously way less intense, could you then figure that Bran was responsible for giving Ned the idea to lie and say he was Jon's father? What if we take it one step further and somehow it crossed a few wires in Ned's head and made Ned actually believe he was the father of the baby he came across just seconds later?


Maybe, maybe not, but if nothing else, it was at least a pretty cool bit of foreshadowing!

---

So why did Ned have the drearm over and over that ended with Lyanna saying "promise me!" instead of having a dream that ended with "Father"?

Am I the only one who thinks Jaime completely BS'd the part about a son?

quote:

---

Am I the only one who thinks Jaime completely BS'd the part about a son?

---

That's a good point. I had kind of wondered why edmure would turn his house over to save a son he's never met to live with a wife he has met once and whose father kept me in captivity for years and also conspired to kill my sister and her family.

Double double

quote:

---

I don't remember which thread it was on (this or show only) discussing Arya and not using this faceless man skill - how they wanted her to use it or assumed she would use it in Westeros.

Well it occurs to me she still could.

I mean she snuck into the House of B&W and put the Waif's face up there - presumably satisfying the many faced god - before Jaqen found her there. Although the Waif killed Lady Crane so really it was already satisfied. But anyway I digress.....

Perhaps before Jaqen arrived she took a face with her.....and just thinking out loud here....assuming we are not getting LSH.....what if the face she took was Catelyn's. She goes back for revenge on the Frey's and uses Catelyn's face.

Nah. Would be cool. But maybe too much of a departure from the books with LSH anyway.

But she could have taken another face to use. We'll see I guess.

---

Jaquen did say now a girl is no one. So maybe now she can use FM powers.

Do we know that you have to actually carry a face around with you? Maybe the face room is a hub that you can tap into from anywhere?

quote:

---

quote:

---

He says don't make threats you can't carry out then proceeds to threaten to catapult a baby. Pretty evil to me.

---

I'd have catapulted a baby into Berlin if it would have meant ending WW2 a year or two earlier.

Does that make me evil?

---

If you're motivation in doing so is so you can hurry to get back and shag your sister rather than saving all those lives, then yes, it does make you evil.

Let's not forget the guy shoved a little kid out of a window, people.

quote:

---

So I had a mini-revelation and wanted to share it with y'all. It's pretty "duh" on the surface, but almost makes a little bit of sense the longer you think about it.

So when Bran accidentally HODORED Hodor, I think it was something along the lines of someone from the future being in the past and then the person in the past hearing the words from someone in the future. I'm not totally sure I've worked out exactly WHAT was the trigger, but I digress.

Theory: What if, as Ned was climbing the stairs of the TOJ, he heard Bran's voice say "father!" and it momentarily got stuck in his mind? If you follow the Hodor theory but dilute it some since it was obviously way less intense, could you then figure that Bran was responsible for giving Ned the idea to lie and say he was Jon's father? What if we take it one step further and somehow it crossed a few wires in Ned's head and made Ned actually believe he was the father of the baby he came across just seconds later?


Maybe, maybe not, but if nothing else, it was at least a pretty cool bit of foreshadowing!

---

I think Med said Jon is his son so the baby wouldn't be killed by Robert or the Lannisters.

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

He says don't make threats you can't carry out then proceeds to threaten to catapult a baby. Pretty evil to me.

---

I'd have catapulted a baby into Berlin if it would have meant ending WW2 a year or two earlier.

Does that make me evil?

---

If you're motivation in doing so is so you can hurry to get back and shag your sister rather than saving all those lives, then yes, it does make you evil.

Let's not forget the guy shoved a little kid out of a window, people.

---

Ha.....touch.