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In the show with the Umbers having handed over Rickon and hating Wildlings are unlikely to switch

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The only thing that gives me hope was their refusal - with Rickon as a distraction - to swear fealty to Ramsay. But yeah, handing over Rickon doesn't bode well. I have faith though.......

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All true. The show is clearly simplifying & consolidating towards an easier more straightforward resolution. They may just hand wave the obvious problems w/handing Rickon to a psychopath & roll with it as a trick.

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Elia was in love with Rheager though... so the Targs and Martells had a pretty good relationship most likely.

The mountain, who at the behest of Tywin Lannister, killed Elia and her kids.

They would probably be happy to help a Targ who wants to kill Lannisters.

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Right, "in love" until Rheagar ran away with Llyanna Stark. How did that work out for her? Point being, Dorne has never really bent the knee to a Targeryan king when all the other kingdoms have. If Dany is looking for common folks who believe she is the rightful heir to the trone, she won't find them in Dorne.

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You are probably right about that in the books. The show may go in a completely different direction. Given what they have shown so far I think there is a good chance they do.

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As presented in the show, I think Dorne supports Danery. They have largely glossed over the whole Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken aspect & explicitly stated the Martels were married to a Targaryn. Plus, as stated, the Sand Snakes (as presented on the show) may love the idea of a female ruler for Westeros.

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I mean, you're right, it certainly could play out that way. But, honestly, I would be pretty miffed. The Sand Snakes spent all this time fighting for independence, fighting for self control, and fighting against perceived weak internal rulers who were unwilling to stand up to outsiders affecting Dorne. Yet then they just roll over and join up with this chick who they know nothing about? I know the show *******ized their story into one of strong women standing up against weak men, but Oberyn wasn't viewed as a weak man so I'm not sure it would be so black and white: "oh we like you because you're a woman and we are women and we hate all men".

I just think, internally, the battle wasn't so much women vs. men, but strong internal government vs. passive acceptance of external governments.

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Anecdotally, the only casual* show watcher I asked about this thinks Dorne liked the Targaryans. Moreover , they were oblivious to Dorne going unconquered, or any slights Targaryans had performed. I don't know if that has any relevance, but maybe the show in consolidating plots pulls them together.

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Perhaps you're right. I'm a show only guy myself, but it's possible I've been infected by enough book material that I'm speaking past the show plots.

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I just think, internally, the battle wasn't so much women vs. men, but strong internal government vs. passive acceptance of external governments.

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I agree!

I think there is a pretty wide range of what Dorne might do something like:

Actively resist Daney

Actively protect/expand Dorne, but be largely indifferent to Daney in Westeros

General indifference to Daney

Help Daney kill their enemies, but not help with general conquest of Westeros

Help Daney conquer Westeros but maintain their independence/semi independence

Swear allegiance to Daney

I am thinking they probably fall somewhere closer to help Danney, but maintain their independence than either of the extremes. To that end I could see them allowing Danney to land in Dorne and provide military support as she fights their enemies.

Or I could be completely wrong and they send assassins to kill her because they hate Targs and she poses such a significant threat.

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I am thinking they probably fall somewhere closer to help Danney, but maintain their independence than either of the extremes. To that end I could see them allowing Danney to land in Dorne and provide military support as she fights their enemies.

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This is probably the most likely outcome. If Varys is going to Dorne, it is because he is trying to negotiate an alliance with Dorne, perhaps under the guise that "Dorne could never be conquered any other way".

The wolves will come again?

Dorne is the most likely landing spot for Dany's forces just because of weather. Meeren and Dorne have similar geography and weather. This gives her forces at least a little time to acclimate themselves to the approaching cold or a march into the teeth of Winter. Her forces will not fare well the farther North they go.

So when does winter start showing up? Was snowing in KL by this point and it is still hit and muggy there in the show. Is this just due to cost of portraying winter with snow effects or does winter just not affect KL and other areas in the show?

I rewatched all of the episodes this season and I think I've simply become spoiled by being able to binge watch series in this day and age. I made it a point to catch up for this season of GOT when I probably should have waited.

This season is fantastic when you watch the episodes back to back. My only genuine gripes is dragging the Arya storyline out and Dorne. I don't even know where to begin with Dorne.

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They will land at OldTown. Guaranteed.

Or not. Never been good at predictions.

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She will land at a spot that shall become the new city of Queens Landing...to take over from the wildfire and dragon burnt Kings Landing

If you

a. want to send a message and
b. divide and conquer

Split the army into 4 divisions landing at

a. Lannisport/Casterly Rock - this hits the Lannisters where it hurts and you can control The Westerlands in about a day I think
b. Old Town - another quick place you can sweep through up to Highgarden which may be the toughest battle but they have no support.
c. Sunspear - take out Dorne while they are not mobilized and probably focused on KL and revenge
d. Storms End - again I think you can make quick work of the Stormlands.

Those 4 divisions push through and meet up in the middle and then amass the full army to go north to KL. You quickly can control the lower third of the continent and then have your full army to march on KL quickly - and while hopefully the armies of the Vale and Riverlands are all engaged up north. After KL you'll control everything south of the neck in a hurry.

Verys is headed to KL. he has to kill Pycelle.

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Verys is headed to KL. he has to kill Pycelle.

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and Kevan...except that was seemingly in order to strengthen Aegon's position....and he's not in the show.

so who knows. could be just to create instability and chaos in KL.

i still think it happens but the motivation is suspect - although to be fair even in the books its suspect.

This is getting ahead, but dragons are drawn to fire and mayhem. Like...a sept getting burnt up with wildfire? Imagine the scene if Cersei burns up the sept, the dragons attack and in the harbor, a fleet of Ironborn and Dothraki arriving with a rightful Targarian heir just as King Tommen and the HS are killed I can imagine the people of KL being like "hail Dany, just make this all stop!"

No idea if the timelines would work but now that it's been established as show canon that characters can teleport, who knows.

Disagree with you that Dorne would be easily conquered. Can't imagine any scenario where Dany doesn't either make a treaty with Dorne, or just totally skips the area. There's nothing to gain for her in trying to take that area by force.

Dorne is the closest equivalent to the Dothraki in culture, climate, proximity, and geography. When you're transporting boatloads of seasick Dothraki and their horses, you want the shortest journey possible. Dorne is it. Dany would be smart to land there first to marshal her forces. Varys doesn't know that she has the entire Dothraki nation marching with her, but nevertheless that's got to be where Varys is headed. An alliance with Dorne is the only thing that would make sense to him.

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Gotta be Dorne.

Hatred of Lannisters. Tepid relationship with Tyrell's. Longstanding animosity for KL in general. Never bent the knee formally to Robert's Rebellion but relied upon Jon Arryn and Doran's diplomatic "truce".

Pair that with book cannon of all the missing sand snake plotlines, Dorne being primarily involved in trade with free cities instead of a part of the seven kingdoms, and Doran's quest to bring back "fire and blood" secretly for years with Quentyn (sidenote: holy **** did D&DB miss the whole god-damn point of Dorne in their show adaptation).

Has to be Dorne.

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Also, I'm calling my shot here on the upcoming Battle of Ice (show *******bowl)

Rickon survives.

Re-watching the whole series and we're on season 3 where Cat just found out that her father has passed and Winterfell was sacked and burned leaving the whereabouts of Bran and Rickon unknown.

Cat makes a whatever 7 star weave thing and while Talisa tries to bond with her explains that she's made two before while praying and they worked: one for Bran to survive the fall, and one when a baby she had previously prayed to die came down with the pox, Jon Snow. Both worked - obviously Bran woke from his fall and little baby 6 inch Jon Snow survived the pox.

So she's making one now in the show, presumably for Rickon. Rickon isn't flayed, is part of the Umber's conspiracy (The Karstarks remain "loyal" to Bolton's fitting with a history back to only joining Robb to kill Lannisters) and we get a Manderly/possible Glover/Mormont Northern rising behind Jon and Sansa.

Of course, this is good writing and continuity in story heavily vested in purposeful foreshadowing, so Rickon will be flayed offscreen and set on fire in front of Winterfell on stocks.

So are you saying he survives or is flayed? I'm confused.

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one when a baby she prayed to die came down with the pox, Jon Snow.

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But Jon didn't die from the pox.

On the topic of how Daenerys is going to start her conquest, do any of you think she's going to make the turn into a villain in the process? As much as I would like to see her and Jon meet in Kings Landing to team up against the White Walkers, Daenerys could easily turn into a ruthless queen "for the good of the people" if she had to. Everywhere she's been so far she's tried to make things better, only for the citizens to mess things up and force her to deal out some pretty harsh punishments (like the Targ favorite: death by fire)

I just can't see how she is going to be seen as a righteous Queen after landing with a Dothraki hoard, who are known for raping/pillaging old school style, and tearing up the continent to get to the Iron Throne. If that happens, I think she turns into a full Targaryen-insane ruler to deal with the backlash. Her only hope to become accepted by Westeros is if she shows up with a huge army and everyone accepts her as the new ruler, with a little convincing by Varys who is already working on it. The timing would be perfect for that if everything plays out the way it seems:

- the north will be war ravaged and Jon just wants some peace and quiet
- the Lannister house is all but gone, Kings Landing will be vacant
- Dorne may not care so long as the Lannisters are wiped out
- Little Finger will keep being diplomatic in the Vale
- the Tyrells might be wiped out by then, and if not I'm sure they'll keep being diplomatic as well
- Euron's Ironborn will probably be wiped out as gratitude to Theon / Asha for ship transport
- Baratheons will be fully gone when Tommon gets got

Also, this would wrap up multiple seasons worth of war for her conquest and justify why it took so long for her to invade. She built an army so large that she could just roll into Kings Landing unscathed and conveniently have a force to battle White Walkers. They have to fit Jon and Daenerys vs the White Walkers into one final season somehow... unless it becomes Jon vs Daenerys and whoever wins gets wiped out by the White Walkers, which would admittedly be fitting for Game of Thrones.

Well Dany's story is a story of revenge.

She wants what she thinks is hers (the throne) and to kill those who took it from her family.

But, that's the end of her story. She doesn't want to rule the 7 kingdoms, she just wants to conquer them.

She is not going to end up ruling, don't really know what is in store for her but she isn't going to be the one that comes out on top.

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one when a baby she prayed to die came down with the pox, Jon Snow.

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But Jon didn't die from the pox.

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Sorry - didn't expand on that.

She prayed for Jon to "be taken away and die", he then got pox, then she awful-mothered herself again with guilt and sat by his side as a babe weaving/praying and he got better and lived.

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So are you saying he survives or is flayed? I'm confused.

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I'm saying that a all the foreshadowing and clues and what would be tremendous continuity in story-writing points to him living; D&DB will kill him off screen.

I was just thinking, what house would actually care/complain with Dany being on the throne again? I suppose the Baratheons (or what's left of them). MAYBE the Lannisters, depending on if Cersei is dead or not (Tyrion is obviously supportive and I bet Jaime would be pretty indifferent as long as Dany doesn't go mad like her father). Margery might fight for it, she's put in a whole lot of sweat equity into being THE queen and she's not likely to bow out without some sort of title to make up for it (though I don't really see her fighting either).

Makes me think, no one had a problem when Robert was king. The event that kicked off this period of unrest was the murder of Jon Aryn. I remember Littlefinger and Lysa conspired to kill him, was it purely so Littlefinger could take over the Vale? If so, perhaps Littlefinger is the one person Dany would have to took out for if she were to ever make it on the throne.

But how long does the star weave last? Bran and Rickon already survived THAT instance. This is like 4 years later. Does the star weave eventually wear off or does that mean Bran and Rickon will both turn into the new TER? Oh wait...

It's definitely been a long time since I've seen that episode, but I thought she was doing the star thing to protect Robb. He was in so many battles, and she was obviously worried about his safety. Did she specifically mention it was for Rickon or "her son back home" or anything like that?

A) Even Aegon the Conqueror failed with Dorne. Dorne will NEVER fall under the rule of the Iron Throne, nobody can conquer it.
B) Flaying would be too easy for Ramsay, Rickon will meet some tear jerking end.

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Those scenes were just as much about Blackfish as they were about Jaime.

We already knew Jaime was a smart negotiator, didn't we? I'm not seeing how that whole storyline was needed just for us to learn that about Jaime. To me, it felt like filler.

There was nothing that couldn't have been learned in a few seconds of dialogue, imo. I guess it remains to be seen if anything else will come of it before the finale. Maybe Blackfish did escape. Maybe Jaime's confession to Edmure will come into play.

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A few seconds of dialogue wouldn't do it justice. That was all character development for Jaime. For the better part of the series, he had been portrayed as this man with no honor who killed the king he was sworn to protect. But then we saw more of his character and people started to realize that he wasn't that bad of a guy, even swearing to return the Stark girls to Catelyn. Then something inside of him snapped and we saw him start to become the person most of westeros thought he was. That all culminated in his speech to Edmure and his taking of Riverrun. You wouldn't have been able to see his transformation into a villain without the riverrun sequences, imo.

If I had to guess, Jaime turning into a villain will play a big role in something that happens at KL later this season or in the next. If that's the case, we needed to see the riverrun sequences to see his heel turn.