quote:Disagree, it gave away that Arya's injuries were mostly superficial since we knew she'd be running around and jumping in the next episode.quote:Nothing of meaning in the parkour jump. Equating the burning man to being Rickon is more on the level of many of us buying into the shadow behind the waif being Syrio. This is the same concept. No way that's Rickon
They gave away Arya's parkour jump.
***Official GAME OF THRONES Season 6 (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)***
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Last: 8 yr ago by hunter2012
quote:
The steam spa was a weird 15-20 second sequence. One that I feel fortunate for not having witness old man ***** during.
It was filmed in the Fort Worth Club athletic center locker room.
Good lord, y'all are a bunch of miserable souls if you're disappointed with the season so far.
Riverrun: Tie up loose end with Blackfish escaping 3 seasons ago and ending up in the boat with Gendry. People complained for two seasons that he was forgotten about and then they get mad in "wasting time for no reason" at Riverrun. It gave us clarity into where Jaime is as a character at the moment. We've seen him go through a lot of different stories and emotions, but he's clearly still not ready to turn over a new leaf and shed himself from his reputation. Also, got some good Bronn time and was reminded of Pod's big wiener.
Battle of *******s: Those that are complaining of it being OBVIOUS that the KotV will come in and save the day are only the people who sit on reddit magnifying into a letter and filling in the missing words to read that letter. I get it, everyone on this thread is used to overanalyzing every little thing happening in GoT because you read the books where you have to pay attention to every single little detail, but the show isn't made for the book readers. To the MAJORITY of the audience, they had no clue who Sansa's raven went to (possibly LF was one of a couple of ideas they had at the time, but zero confirmation). Furthermore, they still don't know what side LF is on or if Sansa has decided to forgive him. So yea, to the majority of the show watchers, it would be a surprise to see LF show up at the last second and save the day. If this makes you mad, then maybe you should stop watching the show and just wait for the book to come out.
Arya: I spend as much time as anyone on this thread making up crazy hypotheses, but being upset with the story because your crazy Fight Club theory didn't pan out is pretty immature. Here's the sequence of events now that we know how it all went down:
Day 1 at Noon: Arya talks to Jaqen about who wants to kill Lady Crane and Jaqen says a servant doesn't ask why.
Day 1 at 5 pm: Arya has a last second change of heart and knocks the cup from her hand, saving her. Arya has no idea the Waif was watching her.
Day 1 at 9 pm: Arya gets Needle and finds a place to sleep since she's not going back to the House of B&W. Meanwhile, Waif has already seen Arya changed her mind and reported it to Jaqen. Usually this would probably take a few days, but the Waif had a grudge and was spying on Arya.
Day 2 at 8 am: Arya goes strutting about acting like a nobleman so she can convince a captain to give her passage to Westeros. She has to act like she has money so the Captain will agree. Furthermore, to convince the Captain to leave first thing tomorrow morning, or 36 hours after knocking the cup from Lady Crane's hand. This explains why she wasn't as on guard as everyone wants her to be, because she's convinced she'll be off the continent before Jaqen ever notices she's missing.
Day 2 at 8:30 am: She's leaving the docks and stops for a split second to reminisce about leaving a city she's grown to love. BOOM, surprise attack!
Look, I get people being upset that Arya was being dumb enough that the Waif got the jump on her as she was trying to flee the city. But here's the thing, the Waif is CLEARLY better than her. She's a better assassin in all ways, blending in, fighting, being in the right place, sneak attacks, and ruthlessness. It should be no surprise that the Waif was able to get the jump on Arya, SHE'S IMMENSELY BETTER THAN ARYA. Furthermore, she purposely only stabbed Arya twice so that she would survive the encounter and suffer longer. People being mad that Arya survived are ignoring the fact that the Waif purposely left her alive to make her suffer. Besides, her body has been trained to take a beating. She's been systematically beaten up daily for possibly a year or more. Things that would kill a normal person are survivable by a Navy Seal. What would have been truly unbelievable to me would be the Waif, a highly trained and smart assassin, inexplicably walking into a dark room to fight a fully healthy Arya instead of waiting for a better time to attack.
Riverrun: Tie up loose end with Blackfish escaping 3 seasons ago and ending up in the boat with Gendry. People complained for two seasons that he was forgotten about and then they get mad in "wasting time for no reason" at Riverrun. It gave us clarity into where Jaime is as a character at the moment. We've seen him go through a lot of different stories and emotions, but he's clearly still not ready to turn over a new leaf and shed himself from his reputation. Also, got some good Bronn time and was reminded of Pod's big wiener.
Battle of *******s: Those that are complaining of it being OBVIOUS that the KotV will come in and save the day are only the people who sit on reddit magnifying into a letter and filling in the missing words to read that letter. I get it, everyone on this thread is used to overanalyzing every little thing happening in GoT because you read the books where you have to pay attention to every single little detail, but the show isn't made for the book readers. To the MAJORITY of the audience, they had no clue who Sansa's raven went to (possibly LF was one of a couple of ideas they had at the time, but zero confirmation). Furthermore, they still don't know what side LF is on or if Sansa has decided to forgive him. So yea, to the majority of the show watchers, it would be a surprise to see LF show up at the last second and save the day. If this makes you mad, then maybe you should stop watching the show and just wait for the book to come out.
Arya: I spend as much time as anyone on this thread making up crazy hypotheses, but being upset with the story because your crazy Fight Club theory didn't pan out is pretty immature. Here's the sequence of events now that we know how it all went down:
Day 1 at Noon: Arya talks to Jaqen about who wants to kill Lady Crane and Jaqen says a servant doesn't ask why.
Day 1 at 5 pm: Arya has a last second change of heart and knocks the cup from her hand, saving her. Arya has no idea the Waif was watching her.
Day 1 at 9 pm: Arya gets Needle and finds a place to sleep since she's not going back to the House of B&W. Meanwhile, Waif has already seen Arya changed her mind and reported it to Jaqen. Usually this would probably take a few days, but the Waif had a grudge and was spying on Arya.
Day 2 at 8 am: Arya goes strutting about acting like a nobleman so she can convince a captain to give her passage to Westeros. She has to act like she has money so the Captain will agree. Furthermore, to convince the Captain to leave first thing tomorrow morning, or 36 hours after knocking the cup from Lady Crane's hand. This explains why she wasn't as on guard as everyone wants her to be, because she's convinced she'll be off the continent before Jaqen ever notices she's missing.
Day 2 at 8:30 am: She's leaving the docks and stops for a split second to reminisce about leaving a city she's grown to love. BOOM, surprise attack!
Look, I get people being upset that Arya was being dumb enough that the Waif got the jump on her as she was trying to flee the city. But here's the thing, the Waif is CLEARLY better than her. She's a better assassin in all ways, blending in, fighting, being in the right place, sneak attacks, and ruthlessness. It should be no surprise that the Waif was able to get the jump on Arya, SHE'S IMMENSELY BETTER THAN ARYA. Furthermore, she purposely only stabbed Arya twice so that she would survive the encounter and suffer longer. People being mad that Arya survived are ignoring the fact that the Waif purposely left her alive to make her suffer. Besides, her body has been trained to take a beating. She's been systematically beaten up daily for possibly a year or more. Things that would kill a normal person are survivable by a Navy Seal. What would have been truly unbelievable to me would be the Waif, a highly trained and smart assassin, inexplicably walking into a dark room to fight a fully healthy Arya instead of waiting for a better time to attack.
When your life is on the line, and you've been stitched and rested, I bet you could run your ass off to try to get away.
Fight or flight is no joke
Fight or flight is no joke
The real issue isn't that her injuries were not great enough to prevent her trying to run, but that the attack shown should have left greater injuries. In my opinion.
quote:I don't think the intention is to act like Arya wasn't hurt, but rather to point out that Arya was able to fight through some very serious injuries (as she's been doing daily for over a year now) in her fight to survive.
The real issue isn't that her injuries were not great enough to prevent her trying to run, but that the attack shown should have left greater injuries. In my opinion.
Did any of y'all watch The Lone Survivor?
If the Waif is at all competent in what she does, Arya would be dead, whether prolonged or not. Either way, the storyline turned from "Arya becomes a badass" into "mean girls fight to the death (eventually)."
quote:
If the Waif is at all competent in what she does, Arya would be dead, whether prolonged or not. Either way, the storyline turned from "Arya becomes a badass" into "mean girls fight to the death (eventually)."
This isn't really fair. The waif was trying to make her suffer, not immediately kill her. And Arya did show to be a 'fighting in the dark' badass. Even if her intrigue/spy senses suck.
quote:Yea, I duno if people are just too caught up in how high the ledge was Arya jumped from or how dirty the water was that she fell into, but this should be pretty straight forward:quote:
If the Waif is at all competent in what she does, Arya would be dead, whether prolonged or not. Either way, the storyline turned from "Arya becomes a badass" into "mean girls fight to the death (eventually)."
This isn't really fair. The waif was trying to make her suffer, not immediately kill her. And Arya did show to be a 'fighting in the dark' badass. Even if her intrigue/spy senses suck.
Arya tried to flee immediately.
The Waif is better than her, so of course she got the drop on Arya.
The Waif let Arya survive the first attack.
The second time around, the Waif was just rag-dolling Arya around the market square.
Even when Arya finally got her into the "trap" (which I don't think was ever really Arya's "plan", just a last resort), the Waif was confident she could take Arya because of how beat-up she was. The Waif's ultimate downfall was her over confidence in her ability to beat Arya no matter what.
This is classic villain vs. hero. Villain gets the drop on the hero. The hero gets rag-dolled all over the city as the villain gloats about winning. Then the hero pulls a last ditch effort to turn the tables for a swift decisive victory. It's like the complete opposite of the Mountain vs. the Red Viper.
quote:YOU TAKE THAT BACK!
Brienne
Pod
Most people are disappointed with this episode in particular, not with the entire season.
Blackfish - It's great that he came back, but devoting almost an hour of screen time to a storyline that ultimately went nowhere is what most of us are upset about. At the very least, we could have seen the death of Blackfish.
Arya - I'm upset that Arya was that dumb, but I'm even more upset by the fact that we had to sit through a whole season of Arya being abused and beaten by the Waif, and we didn't even get the payoff or satisfaction of seeing the final confrontation when Arya finally bests her.
Blackfish - It's great that he came back, but devoting almost an hour of screen time to a storyline that ultimately went nowhere is what most of us are upset about. At the very least, we could have seen the death of Blackfish.
Arya - I'm upset that Arya was that dumb, but I'm even more upset by the fact that we had to sit through a whole season of Arya being abused and beaten by the Waif, and we didn't even get the payoff or satisfaction of seeing the final confrontation when Arya finally bests her.
And the fact that Drogon flew away from Mereen instead of burning the ships attacking the city just poured salt in the wound. (Though I admit they're probably just saving this for the finale.)
Throw in the Mountain only killing one of the sparrows, and Tommen seemingly taking away the possibility of Cleganebowl, and the episode ultimately felt like the biggest case of blue balls ever.
I do plan on watching it again and may enjoy it a bit more the second time. There were definitely some good moments in it.
Throw in the Mountain only killing one of the sparrows, and Tommen seemingly taking away the possibility of Cleganebowl, and the episode ultimately felt like the biggest case of blue balls ever.
I do plan on watching it again and may enjoy it a bit more the second time. There were definitely some good moments in it.
We didn't see the Blackfish die. It probably means he didn't (some other dude passed off to the Lannisters who, aside from Jamie don't really know exactly what he looks like).
In the book, didn't the Blackfish swim off to escape the Lannisters (or was that Edmure)?
In the book, didn't the Blackfish swim off to escape the Lannisters (or was that Edmure)?
quote:Jaime, after being completely verbally undressed by the battle-hardened Blackfish, was able to outsmart him and take the castle with little to no casualties. Extremely impressive feat by Jaime, and one only a truly conniving and manipulative person like Jaime Lannister could pull off. Instead of spending two years running a siege, he's able to return to King's Landing a victor in only a matter of days. I think you're missing the point if you're worried about the Blackfish in that sequence. Clearly the directors wanted you to care about Jaime and Brienne, you know, two characters who have had IMMENSELY more TV time.
Most people are disappointed with this episode in particular, not with the entire season.
Blackfish - It's great that he came back, but devoting almost an hour of screen time to a storyline that ultimately went nowhere is what most of us are upset about. At the very least, we could have seen the death of Blackfish.
Arya - I'm upset that Arya was that dumb, but I'm even more upset by the fact that we had to sit through a whole season of Arya being abused and beaten by the Waif, and we didn't even get the payoff or satisfaction of seeing the final confrontation when Arya finally bests her.
As for Arya's kill, it was pitch black, what exactly did you want to see?
i will say one thing about Arya/Waif fight and death. the idea is that the room was completely dark and Arya had learned to fight blind. so, if we could see, then the Waif could presumably see thus she defeats Arya.
just throwing it out there.
just throwing it out there.
We saw Drogon flying for like 2 seconds in the back ground. He might have been doing a circle over the ships for intimidation, and the next time we see Mereen the first thing we see is a ship lighting up like a torch.
right one about Jamie. we learned 2 things. 1) Jamie has become as smart as his brother and father 2) while he has learned respect and admiration he still ultimately only cares about Cersei and will do anything for her.
quote:I do agree I was disappointed in not seeing Drogon burn the ships, but I suppose I'll live with it if that's where they decided to save some money. If I were reading it in a book, I'd have to imagine that scene anyways so why not do it now? The best part is that those ships had flaming trebuchets so you know there is some powerful accelerant on those boats just waiting to catch fire!
We saw Drogon flying for like 2 seconds in the back ground. He might have been doing a circle over the ships for intimidation, and the next time we see Mereen the first thing we see is a ship lighting up like a torch.
Those scenes were just as much about Blackfish as they were about Jaime.
We already knew Jaime was a smart negotiator, didn't we? I'm not seeing how that whole storyline was needed just for us to learn that about Jaime. To me, it felt like filler.
There was nothing that couldn't have been learned in a few seconds of dialogue, imo. I guess it remains to be seen if anything else will come of it before the finale. Maybe Blackfish did escape. Maybe Jaime's confession to Edmure will come into play.
We already knew Jaime was a smart negotiator, didn't we? I'm not seeing how that whole storyline was needed just for us to learn that about Jaime. To me, it felt like filler.
There was nothing that couldn't have been learned in a few seconds of dialogue, imo. I guess it remains to be seen if anything else will come of it before the finale. Maybe Blackfish did escape. Maybe Jaime's confession to Edmure will come into play.
quote:I'm no writer, but I would've at least had us hear the fight for a few seconds. The sounds of the fight in the dark could've been pretty suspenseful. And maybe show Arya lighting the candle afterwards and we see the Waif's dead body.
As for Arya's kill, it was pitch black, what exactly did you want to see?
It's not much, but it's something. There was no moment of catharsis for me.
To be honest, I thought the episode was going to end when she sliced the candle and the screen went dark. How would you have felt then?
quote:quote:
It could be that it was assumed that all the Wildfire was used in the Blackwater battle. However, maybe Qyburn discovered other hidden caches?
If I recall correctly, Cersei uses some of the left over wildfire to burn down the Red Keep as sort of a fireworks show for Tommen's wedding after Tywin had already died.
She burns down the Tower of the Hand.
Same here.
What? Nothing is ever just as much about the Blackfish as it is about Jaime. The Blackfish is such a minor character, he's been missing from the screen for three years. Jaime is in 80% of the episodes. Pod is more of a main character than the Blackfish. Heck, at least Pod has some character development happening. The Blackfish is an old man, he was never going to change. Static characters are never as important as dynamic ones.
What is this quick conversation that could have been had that resulted in Jaime taking the castle back in a matter of days, saving Edmure's life and giving him Castly Rock, and the Blackfish not going to help Sansa in the north? I thought it was very important, because for a while there, we were counting on those troops to help Sansa and Jon beat Ramsey. Now we know they won't be there next week when the battle happens. I also thought it was important because Jaime had become useless in KL and now he's back to being useful and finally has a new notch in his belt.
I suppose they could all just have a conversation and talk about how Jon beat Ramsey, then Dany beat Tommen, then Jon beat the WWs, and finally Dany marrys Jon and we could have this all wrapped up by the end of the month. But I actually prefer them spending some time on the minor plotlines in the show.
What is this quick conversation that could have been had that resulted in Jaime taking the castle back in a matter of days, saving Edmure's life and giving him Castly Rock, and the Blackfish not going to help Sansa in the north? I thought it was very important, because for a while there, we were counting on those troops to help Sansa and Jon beat Ramsey. Now we know they won't be there next week when the battle happens. I also thought it was important because Jaime had become useless in KL and now he's back to being useful and finally has a new notch in his belt.
I suppose they could all just have a conversation and talk about how Jon beat Ramsey, then Dany beat Tommen, then Jon beat the WWs, and finally Dany marrys Jon and we could have this all wrapped up by the end of the month. But I actually prefer them spending some time on the minor plotlines in the show.
quote:But part of the suspense was the slow pan along the trail of blood to see which face made it into the hall. Just because it was different than you wanted doesn't mean it was bad.quote:I'm no writer, but I would've at least had us hear the fight for a few seconds. The sounds of the fight in the dark could've been pretty suspenseful. And maybe show Arya lighting the candle afterwards and we see the Waif's dead body.
As for Arya's kill, it was pitch black, what exactly did you want to see?
It's not much, but it's something. There was no moment of catharsis for me.
quote:You're seriously equating the non-siege at Riverrun with the Battle of the *******s or any of those other things you mentioned? You're delusional.
I suppose they could all just have a conversation and talk about how Jon beat Ramsey, then Dany beat Tommen, then Jon beat the WWs, and finally Dany marrys Jon and we could have this all wrapped up by the end of the month. But I actually prefer them spending some time on the minor plotlines in the show.
You said it yourself, Blackfish is a minor character at best. Jaime and Brienne are mostly unchanged before and after the events.
We didn't need any of that plotline, and we could've had an extra hour with some of the other characters that we actually care about.
My two cents.
Really? That was suspenseful for you? We all knew Arya would live.
We could do this all day. You liked it, many people didn't. Let's move on.
We could do this all day. You liked it, many people didn't. Let's move on.
quote:I agree that Jaime has proven he is much more than a missing sword hand and could prove valuable in the wars to come.
right one about Jamie. we learned 2 things. 1) Jamie has become as smart as his brother and father 2) while he has learned respect and admiration he still ultimately only cares about Cersei and will do anything for her.
As for Cersei, I can see it playing out in E10 that she tells Jaime "burn them all". He walks away from that instead of killing her.
Perhaps you'd have preferred they spent that hour in Dorne?
Exactly. Waste of time.
As bad as Dorne was, that plotline at least had semi-important repercussions with the death of Myrcella. Unfortunately, it took the entire f-ing season.
I get that not all characters, especially minor ones, are going to get an onscreen death. the fact remains that things could have been better. Someone's suggestion to have Arya relight the candle after the battle would have been pretty cool. They also could have cut the chase scene down (or cut this entire storyline by an episode or so) so that they could spend 30 seconds on the death of the Blackfish or letting the Mountain rip up multiple people.
People also have issue with the way that they keep changing characters up (Loras not really being one of the best fighters to most, the Blackfish just giving up when he ****ing swims out underwater for who knows how long to survive and fight another day, Littlefinger allowing Sansa to marry someone he knows nothing about, etc.). Hell I'm still annoyed by Jamie being with Cersei. My only hope is that she will indeed kill Tommen or at least try to kill him and all of King's Landing causing Jamie to kill her first. Then he can finally change his mind about her and pursue a different path (hopefully).
It's disappointing when the best parts of episodes are the minor interactions (Hound, Pod and Bronn, Lady Mormont, Tormund and Brienne, etc.). Sure this season has been filled with action, but it is by no means the "best." I'll take a slower moving season with legitimate events and shocks any time (Ned's death, the Red Wedding, etc.). I think this season might be suffering because of the action and fast pace even. No, I'm not going to stop watching the show, so don't bother suggesting it. I'm just saying that the quality has dipped. Given the chance, I'd have gladly finished the books before the show as well.
People also have issue with the way that they keep changing characters up (Loras not really being one of the best fighters to most, the Blackfish just giving up when he ****ing swims out underwater for who knows how long to survive and fight another day, Littlefinger allowing Sansa to marry someone he knows nothing about, etc.). Hell I'm still annoyed by Jamie being with Cersei. My only hope is that she will indeed kill Tommen or at least try to kill him and all of King's Landing causing Jamie to kill her first. Then he can finally change his mind about her and pursue a different path (hopefully).
It's disappointing when the best parts of episodes are the minor interactions (Hound, Pod and Bronn, Lady Mormont, Tormund and Brienne, etc.). Sure this season has been filled with action, but it is by no means the "best." I'll take a slower moving season with legitimate events and shocks any time (Ned's death, the Red Wedding, etc.). I think this season might be suffering because of the action and fast pace even. No, I'm not going to stop watching the show, so don't bother suggesting it. I'm just saying that the quality has dipped. Given the chance, I'd have gladly finished the books before the show as well.
quote:quote:Yea, I duno if people are just too caught up in how high the ledge was Arya jumped from or how dirty the water was that she fell into, but this should be pretty straight forward:quote:
If the Waif is at all competent in what she does, Arya would be dead, whether prolonged or not. Either way, the storyline turned from "Arya becomes a badass" into "mean girls fight to the death (eventually)."
This isn't really fair. The waif was trying to make her suffer, not immediately kill her. And Arya did show to be a 'fighting in the dark' badass. Even if her intrigue/spy senses suck.
Arya tried to flee immediately.
The Waif is better than her, so of course she got the drop on Arya.
The Waif let Arya survive the first attack.
The second time around, the Waif was just rag-dolling Arya around the market square.
Even when Arya finally got her into the "trap" (which I don't think was ever really Arya's "plan", just a last resort), the Waif was confident she could take Arya because of how beat-up she was. The Waif's ultimate downfall was her over confidence in her ability to beat Arya no matter what.
This is classic villain vs. hero. Villain gets the drop on the hero. The hero gets rag-dolled all over the city as the villain gloats about winning. Then the hero pulls a last ditch effort to turn the tables for a swift decisive victory. It's like the complete opposite of the Mountain vs. the Red Viper.
I get what your saying with the cat/mouse dynamic, and I like the idea of the over-confident villain tracking down the wounded heroine who finds a way to win, I just think that they did a terrible job at portraying it in a way that made either character look stronger. Arya was mindlessly out in the open to be killed and the Waif just stumbled after her without finishing the job until she died. If anything it made them both look weaker and aside from Arya slicing off someone's face (pretty badass) it showed her ability to be taken seriously as killer regress.
I don't have a problem at all with how the events unfolded, just with the execution. This show is too good to have crummy storylines go unnoticed.
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