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Yea, but couldn't that also just be done by Arya going to the House of Black & White and then dying and having her face enter the hall of faces? If Jaqen and the Waif use her face now, wouldn't that be the same as ARYA using her own face but fully making the transition to "no one"? If she's truly no one then she's no longer the character of Arya so who cares. If she fights it off and doesn't become "no one" then she's back to being Arya; but what's the value in revealing she was fighting herself the whole time? The whole Fight Club reveal was based around Edward Norton wanting to become Tyler Durden. The reveal wouldn't be quite the same if he just went back to his original self.

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a little different...

maybe on the surface there is not much "value" in revealing she was fighting herself the whole time. whether that helps train her in some way i don't know....but thats not really important.

but as opposed to Ed Norton character who is nuts and simply WANTS to become Tyler Durden....Arya HAS to decide to kill Arya Stark. the representation of the waif is her alter ego as a faceless man and she has to be willing to let go of Arya which is manifested by allowing the Waif to kill her (or herself as the Waif killing Arya even if its symbolic only).

and the difference between that and Arya simply dying and them using her face may seem trivial. But I bet it has meaning later on, we simply don't know yet. From a literary standpoint , just speculating, but I bet Arya upon returning to Westeros as a faceless man is presented with a conflict in which she has to kill someone Arya wouldn't want to. If its not Arya and is just Jaqen or someone with her face - there is no conflict. Its to create a dramatic personal conflict.

Remember she just wanted to kill specific people in revenge. I have the feeling it is not going to work out that way for her. Just cuz you know....its GRRM.

Yep, you've officially convinced me it won't be the Fight Club theory.

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At this point she has to become no one....

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Why? If Arya becomes no one, then I think it will have been pointless to follow her around and care about her story. She is a Stark, not no one. She finally realizes it and has found herself by attempting to be no one. She knows the truth of herself. If she had never gone to Bravos she might have never taken this step in her life, and probably would have wound up dead in a ditch somewhere with only the buzzards to care.

What the hell does she matter to the larger story if she is no one?

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Yea, but couldn't that also just be done by Arya going to the House of Black & White and then dying and having her face enter the hall of faces? If Jaqen and the Waif use her face now, wouldn't that be the same as ARYA using her own face but fully making the transition to "no one"? If she's truly no one then she's no longer the character of Arya so who cares. If she fights it off and doesn't become "no one" then she's back to being Arya; but what's the value in revealing she was fighting herself the whole time? The whole Fight Club reveal was based around Edward Norton wanting to become Tyler Durden. The reveal wouldn't be quite the same if he just went back to his original self.

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a little different...

maybe on the surface there is not much "value" in revealing she was fighting herself the whole time. whether that helps train her in some way i don't know....but thats not really important.

but as opposed to Ed Norton character who is nuts and simply WANTS to become Tyler Durden....Arya HAS to decide to kill Arya Stark. the representation of the waif is her alter ego as a faceless man and she has to be willing to let go of Arya which is manifested by allowing the Waif to kill her (or herself as the Waif killing Arya even if its symbolic only).

and the difference between that and Arya simply dying and them using her face may seem trivial. But I bet it has meaning later on, we simply don't know yet. From a literary standpoint , just speculating, but I bet Arya upon returning to Westeros as a faceless man is presented with a conflict in which she has to kill someone Arya wouldn't want to. If its not Arya and is just Jaqen or someone with her face - there is no conflict. Its to create a dramatic personal conflict.

Remember she just wanted to kill specific people in revenge. I have the feeling it is not going to work out that way for her. Just cuz you know....its GRRM.

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But if she truly becomes "no one" then she is Jaquen or the Waif. They're all the same.

If she truly is "No one," then there is no conflict in her going to kill Jon Snow at that point because she doesn't care anymore than the Waif would care. That's why it would suck if that is the direction they go with it. To truly become a Faceless Man you have to become completely interchangeable and indistinguishable from all the other Faceless Men.

Seconded!

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It just seems so weird that Arya would be hiding out at the end of the previous episode but then is suddenly strolling around casually buying first class canon accommodations. I'd like to think Arya was able to get someone else to impersonate her to buy the cabin, trick the Waif into killing that Arya, then safely take the voyage herself. The only problem is that to have Aryas face wouldn't Arya have had to die first?

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The other problem is that is a **** rotten thing to do and Arya hasn't shown herself to be a **** rotten person, quiet the opposite, actually.

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Arya has shown she is very willing to kill people who deserve it. How many has she killed with Needle by coldly running them through? It's several.

The actress didn't deserve to die. The waif does. Arya is a moral balance to the cold dispassion of the Faceless Men

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It just seems so weird that Arya would be hiding out at the end of the previous episode but then is suddenly strolling around casually buying first class canon accommodations. I'd like to think Arya was able to get someone else to impersonate her to buy the cabin, trick the Waif into killing that Arya, then safely take the voyage herself. The only problem is that to have Aryas face wouldn't Arya have had to die first?

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The other problem is that is a **** rotten thing to do and Arya hasn't shown herself to be a **** rotten person, quiet the opposite, actually.

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Arya has shown she is very willing to kill people who deserve it. How many has she killed with Needle by coldly running them through? It's several.

The actress didn't deserve to die. The waif does. Arya is a moral balance to the cold dispassion of the Faceless Men

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I was referring to the hapless schmuck she would use as the bait and have killed by the Waif.

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Can we start a new thread titled "Pointless boring GoT arguments" and move all of this Arya and writing style crap to it?

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Arya talk is good filler

I'm going to rewatch every Waif scene after the kids go down tonight. Looking for Fight Club clues.

The Waif in the books is not the character in the show. Book Waif is a separate person, no question about it. This is not how Arya's arc goes down in the books.

Either Arya imagined the whole thing or somebody that looks like Arya got stabbed on that bridge. It was not acting. Recall how the actors portrayed Robert and the boar. And, the Waif knows how to use a knife. Stab a bag of blood and stab a piece of meat. The difference is obvious to the even the novice.

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Can we start a new thread titled "Pointless boring GoT arguments" and move all of this Arya and writing style crap to it?

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The reddit post from the past page is worth a read. The wife and I had the same thought last night. The same wife that figured out R+L=J without reading the books, which the show only guys say is IMPOSSIBLE.

nm

I 2nd your "nm."

The new Redstone.

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Can we start a new thread titled "Pointless boring GoT arguments" and move all of this Arya and writing style crap to it?

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The reddit post from the past page is worth a read. The wife and I had the same thought last night. The same wife that figured out R+L=J without reading the books, which the show only guys say is IMPOSSIBLE.

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That was a solid read/comment. Most of the remainder of the stuff from the past 2 pages has been mind numbing.

yep...hashed it to death. i agree. and it was a nice discussion compared to the usual texags descent into name calling. it was civil. so its all good. what the hell else were we going to talk about after that filler episode.

hopefully the following weeks have more big dramatic moments to discuss.

anyway. i'm not even fully onboard with the FC theory...just arguing its merits based on what we've seen. and actually arguing whether it would be a cheat mostly. anyway, it's possible. but we don't know. certainly less evidence of any kind to support it than there is for R+L=J.

i'd give the FC theory maybe a 30% chance of happening
but also 40% chance it is what we've seen presented at face value
and maybe 15% that it is the acting/fake blood theory
and 10% jaqen was in arya's place to test the waif
and 5% something else completely

so none of them are highly likely. but if it is not as presented then i think the FC theory is the highest probability.

I feel sorry for y'all having to do this talk for an entire off season with Jon Snow. I just started watching this season, after finishing the books, and this Arya situation is burning my brain.

New topic:

Who will be the last Stark or Starks Standing?

My money is on Arya and Sansa making it.

I'd be shocked if Rickon makes it and I'll be surprised if Bran dies.

If either of the girls die, depending on how/when it happens, I'm not sure it would move my needle either way. I fully expect Arya to make it back to Westeros, but wouldn't be surprised if she dies taking out one of the final people on her list. I could also see Littlefinger turning on Sansa in some big betrayal and offing her for his own advancement.

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and 5% something else completely

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After watching every Waif scene back-to-back, i have something else completely.

Lady Crane knew Arya was working for the FM. She asked her how she likes pretending to be other people, with the inflection that she knows Arya is pretending to be other people. She is much more than she seems and she is no friend to the FM. The younger actress had nothing to do with it. This was Jaqen attempting to take out an enemy.

Lady Crane sent one of her minions out as fake Arya roaming the streets like a sore thumb idiot to draw out the Waif. It worked. Now she will find Arya, reveal herself and her cause (Rhollor priestess?), recruit her, then send her back to Westeros with her own mission as a Stark.

Jaqen will take care of the Waif. The Arya leaping in the preview is Jaqen. He can do it, he did a great job as the Waif in S5E10. She has failed to be No One. Her face goes in the hall and the MFG is satisfied.

Living Starks:
Jon as King of Westeros
Sansa as Lady of Winterfell
Bran as a tree/3ER

Dead Starks:
Rickon
Arya

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New topic:

Who will be the last Stark or Starks Standing?

My money is on Arya and Sansa making it.

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Way back in the day when GRRM pitched the GOT trilogy to the publisher, it was a story built around the survival of 5 characters. It is pretty easy to find on the internet.

My guess is the last Stark alive will be Bran. I'm with those who think the epilogue for the final book is Bran thousands of years in the future.

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and 5% something else completely

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After watching every Waif scene back-to-back, i have something else completely.

Lady Crane knew Arya was working for the FM. She asked her how she likes pretending to be other people, with the inflection that she knows Arya is pretending to be other people. She is much more than she seems and she is no friend to the FM. The younger actress had nothing to do with it. This was Jaqen attempting to take out an enemy.

Lady Crane sent one of her minions out as fake Arya roaming the streets like a sore thumb idiot to draw out the Waif. It worked. Now she will find Arya, reveal herself and her cause (Rhollor priestess?), recruit her, then send her back to Westeros with her own mission as a Stark.

Jaqen will take care of the Waif. The Arya leaping in the preview is Jaqen. He can do it, he did a great job as the Waif in S5E10. She has failed to be No One. Her face goes in the hall and the MFG is satisfied.

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Certainly possible. I buy that actually more than Arya wearing protection and fake blood pouches.

That line was interesting about how she likes pretending to be other people - although it could have been that she assumed she was an actress or wanted to be an actress. But it could have had a double meaning too.

Only thing is how would she convince someone to pose as Arya - for what purpose and would they not suspect a threat. Thats minor though.

Also it is definitely Arya jumping - unless you mean it is Jaqen as Arya - yeah I guess thats what you mean.