Thought overall the episode was pretty great.

Like most of you I'm confused as to why Arya went from hiding in the dark with needle at the end of last episode to gallivanting through the city this one.

And also why those brotherhood without banners guys (if that's who they actually were) massacred that camp.

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And also why those brotherhood without banners guys (if that's who they actually were) massacred that camp.

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If under different leadership.....


If i recall from the books, they were described as being more like regular outlaws and less "noble" with LSH as compared to how they were under Beric Dondarrion

I realize timelines of separate stories are not coincident....but it bugs me when

Brienne cannot get from the wall to Riverrun yet but

1. Yara and Theon sail all the way from the iron islands to Volantis
2. Jaime goes all the way from KL to Riverrun- i realize thats half the distance but he has an army in tow moving slowly
3. Jon and Sansa can make a tour of the north from the wall to bear island to deepwood motte and presumably others, while avoiding Bolton controlled areas.

Oh well. Dramatic license I suppose.

There's a post on Reddit addressing this right now.

One of the directors said this in an interview:

"The timelines between the various storylines don't necessarily line up within a given episode. For instance, the "Northern Tour" Jon and Sansa embark on would probably take a couple weeks, but Arya's storyline over the past few episodes only spans a few days. We realized awhile ago that if we tied ourselves in knots trying to make all the "story days" line up between all the characters the momentum would suffer. "

Someone on reddit said Arya is left handed but in this episode Arya was right handed. Think this is just a mistake or a subtle hint that there's more going on with Arya...

How could there be an imposter Arya when she's still alive? They can't just pose with her face when it's still hers??

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Someone on reddit said Arya is left handed but in this episode Arya was right handed. Think this is just a mistake or a subtle hint that there's more going on with Arya...

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she is left handed. The girl that plays her apparently put in hours of training to do everything left handed because she is right handed.

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How could there be an imposter Arya when she's still alive? They can't just pose with her face when it's still hers??

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That's what I was wondering...

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How could there be an imposter Arya when she's still alive? They can't just pose with her face when it's still hers??

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She did drink the water from the death pool though. Wonder if that has any implications.

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I realize timelines of separate stories are not coincident....but it bugs me when

Brienne cannot get from the wall to Riverrun yet but

1. Yara and Theon sail all the way from the iron islands to Volantis
2. Jaime goes all the way from KL to Riverrun- i realize thats half the distance but he has an army in tow moving slowly
3. Jon and Sansa can make a tour of the north from the wall to bear island to deepwood motte and presumably others, while avoiding Bolton controlled areas.

Oh well. Dramatic license I suppose.

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http://quartermaester.info/
(Interactive map)

http://winteriscoming.net/2015/11/10/game-of-thrones-fan-tabulates-distances-between-places-in-westeros/
(some users worked out some distances using the lengtrh of the wall = 149 pixels = 300 miles (100 leauges)




It's about 3,000 miles (2,600 nautical miles) from Iron Islands to Volantis by this method... The average viking longship made between 5-15 knots depending on conditions. If we assume 10 knots average speed for the Asha / Theon fleet - that's 2,600 NM / (10 knots * 24 hours) = 11 days of sailing. Not too bad actually.



The distance from King's Landing to Riverrun I couldn't find directly, but it looks like about 450 miles eyeballing it... The average marching army can make about 10 miles (leisurely) per day up to 40 miles (pressing) per day. If we say 25 miles per day on average, that's 450 / 25 = 18 days of marching.

Winterfell to Castle Black is 650 miles. Winterfell to Riverrun is about 1500 miles. Brienne from the wall to Riverran is = 2150 miles. On horseback a person can cover 50-100 miles per day. Again the average of 75 miles a day would yield: 2,150 / 75 = 29 days riding.

So it's reasonable to conclude that Brienne will show up to Riverrun way after Jaime's Army. And that Asha and Theon would smoke everyone else to Volantis.


(https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KAqa9wwODqaFkegqf8Si6fmuE55-M-GMIj0ZmcKUFxs/edit)

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Where did you get 3000 miles from Iron Islands to Volantis from? Just curious. Eyeballing it (measuring with my fingers) if it is 2150 from the Wall to Riverrun. then it is about triple that from Iron Islands around the south of Westeros to Volantis.So about 6000 miles

That still makes it doable in 22 days presumably by the numbers you used.

Anyway. Not a big issue. Just humorous almost. By comparison to Brienne's journey - Littlefinger appeared to go from Runestone where he met with Robyn to Mole's Town where he met with Sansa in about a day and thats further than the wall to Riverrun.

I just have to consciously NOT pay attention to timelines.

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How could there be an imposter Arya when she's still alive? They can't just pose with her face when it's still hers??

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In the episode where she went blind, she saw a dead man with her face.

Your Right... Iron Islands to Volantis is 3,000 miles (I used a ruler this time),

But Winterfell to Riverrun is more like 1,100 miles - following the King's Road (not as the crow flies) So 1,100 + 650 = 1,750 / 75 m.a.d. on horseback = 24 days riding.

Ill change it above

The Iron islands are WAY south of the wall and Winterfell - probably 700-800 miles south of Winterfell. They are actually south of the Twins and parallel to Seagard

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I feel like I'm one of the few who is never fazed by the "travel time discrepancies" that seem to keep coming up. Everyone here has read the books (presumably), so everyone should have at least some expectation that the passage of time as it looks on the show doesn't necessarily match up with how the stories are edited together-- the same way the stories as told in the books don't necessarily line up chronologically.

Who's to say that everything happening with Bran north of the Wall and Dany in Vaes Dothrak are even happening in the same year? Jamie got to Riverrun before Brienne could, but maybe Jamie left King's Landing a 2 months before Brienne even got to the Wall with Sansa?

Long rant short-- we're worrying way too much about how long it takes people to get places when we don't even have a measure of time to go off. Just enjoy the fact that we have so much action this season that this "problem" even comes up.

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Its best not to think about it, even when you're talking about the books only, because Martin has a really warped sense of the size of his continents. Westeros is like South America, Essos must be pretty much like Asia, but he's got characters wandering all over them in short times.

The writers and producers have explicitly said the show time lines do not align with each other in an episode. The only time you know charterers are in the same time is when they are physically together (or have some common event like a red shooting star). As has been stated, this is done for dramatic effect and story telling. For example chronologically Little Finger may have marshaled the Knights of the Vale before Briene rescued Theon and Sansa in the first episode of seasons six; however, it was not shown until later for pacing and narrative effect.

So who was shown leaping off a roof to a street scene below (in the previews for next week)???? Could it be Jaqen coming to save Arya/and or kill the waif? The waif was also shown again with a bloody knife.

Arya Thoughts...

1) Mortal Wound: You medical-types correct me if I'm wrong, but if stabbed in the gut 3 times (with one twist) and dumped in a canal is a mortal wound. Even if it happens right outside of a modern American hospital, your chances of survival are pretty slim. In a medieval city, the chance is less than zero. The only way she comes back from that is magic. The only magic we see in Braavos is the FM.

2) Girl running in Trailer: we see a girl running from behind in the [review and we are supposed to believe that is Arya. I don't think it is. That is not the same person that was stabbed.

3) She was asking for it: Arya is dressed as a Braavosi man. From what we've seen, a woman wearing pants in public would stick out like a sore thumb. She is an unarmed sore thumb wandering around in public approaching strangers and telling them she is a Westerosi who wants to go home. Seriously?

4) Arya Dies: I don't see this happening in the books, but I could see this happening in the show. In the books, Arya is growing into a disciplined trained ninja with a strong mental connection to Nymeria. She is a bit of a medieval superhero in the making. She has a future that can develop over the final 2,000 pages. In the show, her storyline is going nowhere. She is failed out of trained ninja school in her freshman year. She never connects with her wolf. What exactly will she contribute back in Westeros? What villain can she hope to kill? Recall, there are maybe 16 episodes left. That's roughly 960 minutes. If they contribute 25% of each remaining episodes to the Arya story, that's only 4 hours. Arya is essentially the same person she was on S1E1. That sore thumb is going to to develop into something else? How do they develop that to a satisfying conclusion in 4 hours? Killing her now would save time and be the Season 7 Red Wedding. A dead Arya is truly "No One", which explains the Episode 8 title. I'm all for it.

5) Arya Lives: This would irritate me. She was mortally wounded. I know it is fantasy, but there is no chance she survives that wound. Unless magic saves her. That would leave us with two of the five characters that are expected to survive to the end of the story being stabbed to death and saved from or brought back from death by magic. That's weak storytelling.

6) A Big Twist: That wasn't Arya. it would explain the sore thumb issues. But, how was it not Arya? The person stabbed is less than 72 hours from death, whoever they are. Did Jaqen sacrifice himself for Arya? I don't see why he would do that. Is the dual personality theory true, and the Waif was actually Arya killing someone else that she imagined was Arya? Did Jaqen put an Arya face on someone else to test the Waif (edit - the FM are capable of glamor)? Is the person that booked passage the same person that was stabbed? This is a lot of twist to wrap up in the next 3 hours of television.

My Conclusion - Arya and Jaqen are working together to test the Waif. Jaqen has some fun magic that will restore Arya to perfect health. They then lure the Waif to a final showdown with Arya in a location that favors Arya's skills. Arya kills the Waif and gets promoted to The Waif. She continues her arc in becoming a FM.

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How could there be an imposter Arya when she's still alive? They can't just pose with her face when it's still hers??

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See this clip from Season 5; Arya is confronted by Jaqen and the Waif after taking the wrong life. The Waif puts her in an arm lock from behind. Jaqen drinks the poison and dies. Arya is distraught. Jaqen then reveals himself as the Waif behind Arya. Arya pulls the face off the dead person and reveals a new face. She repeats this face-removal until she sees her own face - how did they get her face without her dying then?

i.e. there is precedent.

The only thing wrong with that theory is the idea that Jaqen still owes Arya a life. Instead of taking his own life as the 3rd, he killed a bunch of guards to allow Arya to escape. He gave her more than the 3 that she saved.

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The writers and producers have explicitly said the show time lines do not align with each other in an episode. The only time you know charterers are in the same time is when they are physically together (or have some common event like a red shooting star). As has been stated, this is done for dramatic effect and story telling. For example chronologically Little Finger may have marshaled the Knights of the Vale before Briene rescued Theon and Sansa in the first episode of seasons six; however, it was not shown until later for pacing and narrative effect.

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yeah Littlefinger left kings landing in like episode 6 of season 5 and had zero screen time after that so to keep the timeline accurate they could have had his scene in the vale late season 5 instead of waiting until early season 6

-What will it take for the Faceless assassins to leave arya alone? Will it stop when she kills the waif?

-if they kill her can they then send the waif as fake Arya to westoros to infiltrate somewhere? At least that would advance her story instead of just having her die.

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From the show thread: (THEORY NOT SPOILER)

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It wasn't Arya it was Jaqen wearing her face
1. Walked like Jaqen, wore hair parted down the middle, threw the coin with the right hand (Arya is left handed)
Agree it's a likelihood

2. Was too obvious. Arya would have never asked for a cabin. The money was thrown around too casually, even if she was capable of stealing such a sum.
Okay
3. Lingering shot of statue on the bridge, maybe sorry to leave. Arya hasn't been there that long, doesn't have a particular fondness for the place. Could have stowed away as a cabin boy too easily
Okay- flimsy but okay
4. Jaqen's life belongs to her. He promised her 3 lives to take for the Red God. He took 2, then she named him as her 3rd. Instead of dying he bargained and agreed to help her escape but then when he left he gave her the coin and told her to come to Braavos. And he gave her the words Valar Morghulis, all men must die. Knowing what we know about their relationship with death there would have been no bargain really. He believes in death
Don't agree here
His life is owed to the Red God. No bargain can change his fate and he knows it. He willingly dies in Arya's place, wearing her face, to fulfill the contract on his own life. He also was testing the Waif who did not fulfill the contract correctly by doing a belly wound instead of killing quickly. Waif is going to go out before he is gone officially. Scenes from next week show Waif running/ chasing possible real Arya
Disagree - I think it's Jaqen; but I don't think he dies. I think the waif does though.

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Arya is left handed - see when she first meets Jaqen:

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I THOUGHT THE WAY SHE WAS WALKING WAS ODD! That's why!

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The only thing wrong with that theory is the idea that Jaqen still owes Arya a life. Instead of taking his own life as the 3rd, he killed a bunch of guards to allow Arya to escape. He gave her more than the 3 that she saved.

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as I posted. I disagree with the Jaqen owes her theory.

I really, think we don't know who's who - and it was a setup of the Waif. The gut-wounded Arya is not the real Arya (right handed, walks differently, was brash / overt about getting home, didn't have needle, etc.) I also don't see how they wounded Arya would be able to make that leap that was see in the preview for Episode 8.

Couple of comments to your post:

Arya has parted her hair down the middle before.

Throwing down the money with her right hand could be simply staging (from where she was standing next to the table, it would be an awkward camera angle to do it with her left hand).

Still thinking about the whole "I'll take a cabin and we leave in the morning" speech. She now has a plan and purpose and is ready to take on the role of Lady Stark? To purposely (really Jaqen in disguise) draw out/test the waif?

Fun to think about while we wait for next Sunday!

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It's about 3,000 miles (2,600 nautical miles) from Iron Islands to Volantis by this method... The average viking longship made between 5-15 knots depending on conditions. If we assume 10 knots average speed for the Asha / Theon fleet - that's 2,600 NM / (10 knots * 24 hours) = 11 days of sailing. Not too bad actually.



The distance from King's Landing to Riverrun I couldn't find directly, but it looks like about 450 miles eyeballing it... The average marching army can make about 10 miles (leisurely) per day up to 40 miles (pressing) per day. If we say 25 miles per day on average, that's 450 / 25 = 18 days of marching.

Winterfell to Castle Black is 650 miles. Winterfell to Riverrun is about 1100 miles. Brienne from the wall to Riverran is = 1,750 miles. On horseback a person can cover 50-100 miles per day. Again the average of 75 miles a day would yield: 1,750 / 75 = 24 days riding.

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The Romans moved like greased lighting marching 20-30 miles a day. Two thousand years later Lee & Jackson moving 30+ miles a day repeatedly surprised the Union and European observers who thought it impossible. Armies making a single 30 mile surge happens but sustained 25 miles a day is a break neck pace for almost any pre-industrial age army (and most modern armies as well).

The Mongol hoards with 3+ horses per rider shocked the world moving 100 miles a day. Most of Europe, the middle east, and China legitimately thought it impossible. Contemporary writing reflects the overwhelming belief that these were false reports, or the mongol force was much bigger than it actually was because how could they be in such distant locations so quickly. Middle aged mounted units could typically manage 30-50 miles a day. Contemporarily it was semi impressive when King Richard II moved about 70 miles in a day with multiple mounts.

I want the hound and arya to both live so HBO can start a series called the Wolf and the Hound, adventures in Westeros(kind of like a present day Dunk and Egg)