quote:Could not agree more.
One of the things I think we'll discover is that a lot of the known legends are wrong regarding the Walkers.
***Official GAME OF THRONES Season 6 (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)***
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Last: 8 yr ago by hunter2012
quote:Well, except having the exact same name, of course.
The show runners have decided to use the term "Night's King" in reference to the current boss of the White Walkers, but there is no reason to believe that he is the same "Night's King" described in the books.
I think his point is that as far as the books go, The Night King has only been described as an old story at this point. He might not even exist. Or have died hundreds of years ago.
quote:
Eventually the First Men and the children fought one another to a standstill. The two races agreed to peaceful coexistence and signed the Pact on the Isle of Faces, granting the open lands to humanity and the forests to the children.
The Pact lasted for 4,000 years before the enigmatic Others invaded from the uttermost north, bringing death and destruction to both races, during an extended period of winter known as the Long Night. The children of the forest joined with the First Men, lead by the last hero, to fight against the Others in the Battle for the Dawn. Eventually the Others were driven back into the Lands of Always Winter.
I think based on that history posted on the previous page about the CotF and First Men, which states they came to a piece before the others ever showed up, that it is possible the show decided to have the Children create the white walkers. Seems like a really crappy weapon if it takes 4000 years to make a mark.
Now, if the quoted history above is not accurate, all bets are off.
CotF probably did not trust The First Men regardless of a pact.
Or they made the Others first, but then when a peace was made, banished their "weapons" to the far North.
So are just assuming Bran will figure out a way to go back in time without access to thw tree
We were all hoping he would be how we learn what happens in the Tower of Joy.
We were all hoping he would be how we learn what happens in the Tower of Joy.
Did Jojen need a Weirwood for his visions of the past?
As a fan of the books and the general ASOIAF story, the whole show passing the books just sucks. I know GRRM style is so long winded, but it was his intricate storytelling that I became fascinated with. Now we are left with discovering such a massive reveal in the story (CoTF creating the WW) in a way that seems ambiguous and underveleoped. What pisses me off the most is that I actually think the show does an awesome job. It's adaptation of the saga is a good as any page to screen adaptation out there, especially considering the vastness of the world/story Martin created. However I came to know and understand the story through Martin's pen and style, and I just wish I would get to discover the remainder through that same method. Had I never read the books, or had I been able to finish the books beforehand, I know I would appreciate the show even more.
Boo whoo, cry me a river right. I know I know. "Well if you're going be such a b*tch you never should've watched the shows." I get it...just ranting
Boo whoo, cry me a river right. I know I know. "Well if you're going be such a b*tch you never should've watched the shows." I get it...just ranting
quote:books related: possibly something to do with the night's watch door bran et al passed through under the wall when they were in the nightfort? if they meet up with benjen and are fleeing from north of the wall, maybe they take that way and hodor has to hold it
The author reportedly told fans on Monday night that the books will handle the whole thing differently. http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/05/game-of-thrones-hodor-george-rr-martin-different?platform=hootsuite
quote:You're right. The show runners NEVER combine, rename or shuffle characters. My bad.quote:Well, except having the exact same name, of course.
The show runners have decided to use the term "Night's King" in reference to the current boss of the White Walkers, but there is no reason to believe that he is the same "Night's King" described in the books.
quote:About 8,000 years ago, actually. But generally correct.
I think his point is that as far as the books go, The Night King has only been described as an old story at this point. He might not even exist. Or have died hundreds of years ago.
quote:What if the CoF planned to breach the Pact, but lost control of their doomsday weapon and needed the First Men to put it back in the box? Chronology would be:
CotF probably did not trust The First Men regardless of a pact.
Invasion by First Men (12,000ya)
Long war between First Men and CoF
Pact (uneasy) between First Men and CoF (10,000ya)
Long Night comes (8,000ya)
CoF see an opportunity and create the Others
Others prove to be uncontrollable
CoF ally with First Men to drive the Others north
First Men build the Wall, with aid of CoF, giants, etcetera
First Men form Night's Watch
13th Lord Commander goes rogue, later called Night's King
Andal invasion begins (6,000ya)
Last Andal victory in the South. North unconquered (4,000ya)
quote:
Did Jojen need a Weirwood for his visions of the past?
Jojen did not have visions of the past, but visions of the future.
quote:
So are just assuming Bran will figure out a way to go back in time without access to thw tree
We were all hoping he would be how we learn what happens in the Tower of Joy.
He either needs only any Weirwood tree or is powerful enough to do it without...otherwise, how was he still in the past/young Hodor's mind as Meera was dragging him away?
quote:
The author reportedly told fans on Monday night that the books will handle the whole thing differently. http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/05/game-of-thrones-hodor-george-rr-martin-different?platform=hootsuite
Man, that makes me feel bad for the guy.
Isn't the long night the result of the Others' attack?
quote:It DID happen 8,000 years ago ... before the First Men learned to read/write and thus provide accurate records. No one in modern Westeros knows whether the Winter brings the Walkers or instead the Walkers bring the Winter.
Isn't the long night the result of the Others' attack?
I hypothesize the former.
Here is what Old Nan said to Bran:
quote:
Fear is for the winter, my little lord, when the snows fall a hundred feet deep and the ice wind comes howling out of the north. Fear is for the long night, when the sun hides its face for years at a time, and little children are born and live and die all in darkness while the direwolves grow gaunt and hungry, and the white walkers move through the woods."
"You mean the Others," Bran said querulously.
"The Others," Old Nan agreed. "Thousands and thousands of years ago, a winter fell that was cold and hard and endless beyond all memory of man. There came a night that lasted a generation, and kings shivered and died in their castles even as the swineherds in their hovels. Women smothered their children rather than see them starve, and cried, and felt their tears freeze on their cheeks." Her voice and her needles fell silent, and she glanced up at Bran with pale, filmy eyes and asked, "So, child. This is the sort of story you like?"
"Well," Bran said reluctantly, "yes, only "
Old Nan nodded. "In that darkness, the Others came for the first time," she said as her needles went click click click. "They were cold things, dead things, that hated iron and fire and the touch of the sun, and every creature with hot blood in its veins. They swept over holdfasts and cities and kingdoms, felled heroes and armies by the score, riding their pale dead horses and leading hosts of the slain. All the swords of men could not stay their advance, and even maidens and suckling babes found no pity in them. They hunted the maids through frozen forests, and fed their dead servants on the flesh of human children."
Her voice had dropped very low, almost to a whisper, and Bran found himself leaning forward to listen.
"Now these were the days before the Andals came, and long before the women fled across the narrow sea from the cities of the Rhoyne, and the hundred kingdoms of those times were the kingdoms of the First Men, who had taken these lands from the children of the forest.
quote:I'm wondering if he is trapped in his visions until somebody attaches him to another Weirwood. Basically, wandering around the past with a comatose body for Meera and BenHands to lug around.quote:
So are just assuming Bran will figure out a way to go back in time without access to thw tree
We were all hoping he would be how we learn what happens in the Tower of Joy.
He either needs only any Weirwood tree or is powerful enough to do it without...otherwise, how was he still in the past/young Hodor's mind as Meera was dragging him away?
quote:quote:
Did Jojen need a Weirwood for his visions of the past?
Jojen did not have visions of the past, but visions of the future.
I thought there was a scene in season 3 where Bran was saying how Ned would tell him about the war, and Jojen was jealous because his father would never talk about it, he had to see it for himself.
Edit: found it. From S3E2 Dark Wings, Dark Words
Jojen: The raven brings the sight.
Bran: Seeing things that haven't happened yet?
Jojen: Or things that happened long before you were born or things that are happening right now thousands of miles away.
...
Bran: When my father died, I dreamt it.
Jojen: You didn't dream it. You saw it. So did I.
Bran: You have the sight, too?
Jojen: When I told my father about your father... for the first time in my life, I saw him cry.
Bran: Your father is Howland Reed?
Jojen: Yeah.
Bran: He saved my father's life during the rebellion.
Jojen: Your father told you about the rebellion? Mine never did. But I saw that, too.
I stand corrected.
A coworker is binging GOT right now and is currently on Ep 2.10. I was curious what was going on in that episode so I pulled up the wiki ep. recap. I had forgotten about the scene where the army of wights and White Walkers march right past Sam up in the North. Was there ever any more significance to that? Or did they just ignore him because they thought he was a worthless fat titty baby.
Why do so many care so much about Summer dying? Yes, it's sad but in what way are any of the direwolves (aside from Ghost) even remotely a major character? The wolf dying seems to be a bigger takeaway than Hodor's death...did I stumble upon a PETA forum?
edit- yes, I've read the books and yes, I know they get a crap ton more attention in them (what doesn't?).
edit- yes, I've read the books and yes, I know they get a crap ton more attention in them (what doesn't?).
quote:The death of Summer and other Dire wolves isn't really about the individual animal dying or being sad about that, its more the continual slide of the the dire wolf story line into irrelevance.
Why do so many on this thread care so much that Summer died? Are you really that attached to an animal? The wolf dying seems to be a bigger takeaway than Hodor's death...is this a PETA forum?
Most people here are book readers, and the dire wolves had much more significance in the books. I know I was looking forward to hearing more about how their story line would develop.
Obviously, the show is doing less with this story line. I guess it is one they had to cut out for the sake of time, but as a book reader I am bummed.
quote:The wolves have bigger roles in the book. I think it would be cool if they had played a larger role in the show. I kept holding out hope that they would, but with Summer's death it seems doubtful. Nymeria and Ghost are the only two left. Maybe Sh****dog.
Why do so many care so much about Summer dying? Yes, it's sad but in what way are any of the direwolves (aside from Ghost) even remotely a major character? The wolf dying seems to be a bigger takeaway than Hodor's death...did I stumble upon a PETA forum?
quote:
Why do so many care so much about Summer dying? Yes, it's sad but in what way are any of the direwolves (aside from Ghost) even remotely a major character? The wolf dying seems to be a bigger takeaway than Hodor's death...did I stumble upon a PETA forum?
A lot of people are idiots and care more about dogs than they do people.
I know the wolves have bigger roles in the books - I've read them. And, aside from Ghost, hardly any of them are mentioned (just like on the show). Not to mention, the chapters where Jon or Bran are warging with their wolves are IMO the most boring in the entire novel series.
Guess I just don't see how anyone - book reader or no - could have grown that attached to any of them except Ghost. Focus on Hodor, not the stupid animal that got maybe 5 minutes of screen time during the whole show.
Guess I just don't see how anyone - book reader or no - could have grown that attached to any of them except Ghost. Focus on Hodor, not the stupid animal that got maybe 5 minutes of screen time during the whole show.
quote:quote:
Why do so many on this thread care so much that Summer died? Are you really that attached to an animal? The wolf dying seems to be a bigger takeaway than Hodor's death...is this a PETA forum?
A) lots of people are emotional about dogs
And horses. The Walking Dead keeps killing horses and GOT keeps killing the wolves.
This doesn't have to be a contest. Hodor's scene was very powerful and impacted everyone. There is probably 5x as many posts about him than Summer.
quote:Calm down buddy. Most of the conversation on this thread is about Hodor rather than Summer. Nobody said "man I wish more people could have died rather than Summer" or "I don't care that silly Hodor died, what about Summer?!"
I know the wolves have bigger roles in the books - I've read them. And, aside from Ghost, hardly any of them are mentioned (just like on the show). Not to mention, the chapters where Jon or Bran are warging with their wolves are IMO the most boring in the entire novel series.
Guess I just don't see how anyone - book reader or no - could have grown that attached to any of them except Ghost. Focus on Hodor, not the stupid animal that got maybe 5 minutes of screen time during the whole show.
I am allowed to care about both. Also, like people have said, this is more about the lack of a payoff in all the backstory/development of the dire wolves in the story, than it is about Summer dying.
Didn't Jojen have way better control of going into his greenseeing? I wonder if Bran's ability to touch or alter the past/present when greenseeing is because he can also warg?
I seem to remember his dreams earlier on were very different than the visions he had with the TER in the cave. Honestly, I'm not real sure what to make of any of it, but I'm a show watcher only, so maybe the book readers have more to add.
I seem to remember his dreams earlier on were very different than the visions he had with the TER in the cave. Honestly, I'm not real sure what to make of any of it, but I'm a show watcher only, so maybe the book readers have more to add.
This thread turned boring really fast. Guess I'll go do some writing instead. Harumph.
quote:
This thread turned boring really fast. Guess I'll go do some writing instead. Harumph.
HODOR!!!!!
This is why the damn book isn't getting done!!!
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