***Official GAME OF THRONES Season 6 (BOOK READERS/SPOILERS ALLOWED)***

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In reply to JJxvi • 11:05a, 4/26/16
AggieSouth06
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11:15a, 4/26/16
This might be helpful...

How writing a TV show would work in a perfect world: [Flashback to 2009] "Ok, we have 73 hours to tell the story. By hour ___, we need to introduce the Dornish characters and work out their individual arcs over ___ episodes, and the books say it should happen like this: [redacted; skip ahead 4.7 hours]. Let's get writing."

How it actually works: "Ok, so we're a go for Season 6. We need the Sand Snakes in this thing because they'll need to do ____, which is critical to the CENTRAL PLOT (which is what we have to focus on servicing first and foremost). So how can we get them from point A to point B with as little digression from the other, more established and interesting characters?"
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JJxvi
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11:16a, 4/26/16
AG
Dorne should have been left out completely then. Showing us several episodes worth of crap added nothing to Oberyn's story, he was good on his own before we knew anything about Dorne. They needed ONE scene where Myrcella could get killed and thats all.

The audience can be left to imagine that yes machinations were going on in Dorne, but we didnt need to see it because it doesnt come to anything. This is exactly what theyve done to much of the later Iron Islands stuff up to now as well. We'll see how that gets handled now that they wanna go back to it.

If the Sand Snakes form an army to threaten King's Landing without benefit of the Aegon character, wow. They will really be doubling down on dumb.

They will have basically decided to have sand snakes rather than Aegon...for...tits I guess.
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AggieHank86
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11:25a, 4/26/16
AG
The way that the show is treating Dorne is an unfortunate indicator that Martin is not planning to make Dorne an important "player" in the conclusion of the books. I say "unfortunate" because I like Prince Doran, and he seems (in the books) to be the only head of a major House who is playing the long game.

Doran is playing cyvasse while everyone else is playing tic-tac-toe. And apparently it will come to nothing.
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JJxvi
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11:34a, 4/26/16
AG
It's not really new information, though. Any notion of Dorne being a factor in the end game was over when Martin wrote Quentyn Martell out of the story by having him barbecued.

They are still a factor in the books because of the Aegon storyline only, and as far as that goes can still be interesting. Without Quentyn and without Aegon, and since Doran is now dead, all Im left with for the show is "why did they show us any of this garbage?"

And if they had to show it to us, at least they could have made it make some ****ing sense.
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FightinTexasAg15
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11:43a, 4/26/16
AG
It's possible that the Sand Snakes end up getting killed somehow and leaves Dorne in a state of disarray, and becomes the first place Danny conquers in Westeros on her quest for the throne
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ellebee
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11:46a, 4/26/16
Maybe melisandre has to give up her youthful appearance, or even eternal life, to bring Jon back. It could've actually happened when we saw her become old and not have anything to do with the necklace. Maybe that has already been mentioned on this thread.
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hunter2012
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11:58a, 4/26/16
AG
In the books the Dorne storyline is important because most of Connington's and Young Griff's troops land in and around Dorne. If Dorne backs him it's full on civil war because the Lannister's are almost out of the picture and the Tyrells are either spread thin or in prison.

The only two regions with full unscathed armies are Dorne and the Vale. Vale is controlled by Littlefinger who's probably in the north with the Vale army which leaves the south and King's landing very ripe for the taking. If Myrcella dies Dorne will have no choice but war. What Doran decides will have major ripples, at least in the books.
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Urban Ag
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11:59a, 4/26/16
AG
The whole storyline in Dorne has been so uninteresting and completely ridiculous, that at this point I am starting to believe it has only existed or continues to exist as a counter to all the whining about misogyny and degradation of women, prevalent in GOT. Like HBO decided that they needed to atone for their sins by unleashing some chicks with swords and whips that would murder their male family members in a coup to take over their kingdom and then do what...........................?

Oh well. When they left Arianne Martel out I didn't have much use for Dorne anyway.
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wangus12
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12:15p, 4/26/16
AG
quote:
How writing a TV show would work in a perfect world: The Books are already finished and we have the entire story so we now know that Dorne has very little influence on the end game. [Flashback to 2009] "Ok, we have 73 hours to tell the story. By hour ___, we need to introduce the Dornish characters and work out their individual arcs over ___ episodes, and the books say it should happen like this: [redacted; skip ahead 4.7 hours]. Let's get writing."
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Zeke1995
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In reply to JJxvi • 12:16p, 4/26/16
AG
quote:
quote:
. . . . Martin would never have this happening because he's far to in tune with actual medieval political machinations and elaborate dinner menus to throw this garbage in the books.
FIFY
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AGeng25
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12:44p, 4/26/16
AG
Some thoughts i've been toying with...

We know the Stark children and their direwolves are closely intertwined -- the mom direwolf being killed by a stag (foreshadowing), Bran "waking up" after Ned kills Sansa's direwolf Lady. Ghost is the only white direwolf of the litter and he was given to Jon. No coincidence. So how will Ghost come into play with Jon's potential resurrection?

Everyone assumes Mel will bring him back or he will awaken on the funeral pyre by fire. What if it's a totally different route and Ghost has to be sacrificed? Just a thought.

Also, I think Dhaario is not to be trusted. There's a scheme to his game. The Second Sons are driven by money. Why is so loyal to Dany? Maybe he isn't? I would not be shocked to see him betray her in some way.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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12:52p, 4/26/16
AG
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titanmaster_race
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In reply to JJxvi • 12:59p, 4/26/16
quote:
quote:
I would bet that the majority of show watchers have never read the book and have no idea about plot lines not being included. I'm fine with them not including some things since there is just too much to cover. The typical viewer won't miss anything since they don't know any different
The point is not things not being included... My point is that as displayed in the show, Dorne at this point is stupid and doesnt fit into the world. Even a show only viewer can understand the importance of the feudal political basis of the world in the show. The Dorne storyline just threw that out the window and now is acting like that entire part of the kingdom is going to randomly swear fealty to a handful of *******s for extremely dubious "revenge" motive, especially when the new "rulers" immediately go on a killing spree.

Are we just supposed to assume that Dorne has no other houses (like the Boltons) who will go, "whoops, no thanks *******s, we are actual lords and we are in charge now." Everything we know of the seven kingdoms from the show would indicate that that would happen if the sand snakes tried rather than actually be successful in this BS coup. Martin would never have this happening because he's far to in tune with actual medieval political machinations to throw this garbage in the books.

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Brian Earl Spilner
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1:03p, 4/26/16
AG
Jaime's note to Doran. Pretty neat.

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Brian Earl Spilner
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1:12p, 4/26/16
AG
I love the little touch of mispelling nieces, since Jaime is dyslexic. Although that is awfully good handwriting for a left hand.
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SpreadsheetAg
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In reply to JJxvi • 1:13p, 4/26/16
AG
quote:
quote:
I would bet that the majority of show watchers have never read the book and have no idea about plot lines not being included. I'm fine with them not including some things since there is just too much to cover. The typical viewer won't miss anything since they don't know any different
The point is not things not being included... My point is that as displayed in the show, Dorne at this point is stupid and doesnt fit into the world. Even a show only viewer can understand the importance of the feudal political basis of the world in the show. The Dorne storyline just threw that out the window and now is acting like that entire part of the kingdom is going to randomly swear fealty to a handful of *******s for extremely dubious "revenge" motive, especially when the new "rulers" immediately go on a killing spree.

Are we just supposed to assume that Dorne has no other houses (like the Boltons) who will go, "whoops, no thanks *******s, we are actual lords and we are in charge now." Everything we know of the seven kingdoms from the show would indicate that that would happen if the sand snakes tried rather than actually be successful in this BS coup. Martin would never have this happening because he's far to in tune with actual medieval political machinations to throw this garbage in the books.
I agree mostly... but what is the Martell line of succession in Dorne (on the show)?




  • We don't know if Arianne exists
  • We don't know if Quentyn exists - but he probably doesn't since they took a completely different plot to get Tyrion and Jorah to Mereen
  • I can't remember if Aegon is suspected to be alive in the book; but he hasn't appeared on the show

So assuming None of the above exist on the show, then we can surmise that, yes, the Lords of Dorne will not accept a Sand as Lady Paramount and Warden of Dorne.
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wangus12
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In reply to AGeng25 • 1:58p, 4/26/16
AG
quote:
Some thoughts i've been toying with...

We know the Stark children and their direwolves are closely intertwined -- the mom direwolf being killed by a stag (foreshadowing), Bran "waking up" after Ned kills Sansa's direwolf Lady. Ghost is the only white direwolf of the litter and he was given to Jon. No coincidence. So how will Ghost come into play with Jon's potential resurrection?

Everyone assumes Mel will bring him back or he will awaken on the funeral pyre by fire. What if it's a totally different route and Ghost has to be sacrificed? Just a thought.

Also, I think Dhaario is not to be trusted. There's a scheme to his game. The Second Sons are driven by money. Why is so loyal to Dany? Maybe he isn't? I would not be shocked to see him betray her in some way.
They do that and I'll kill GRRM and the show runners so nothing can be finished
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Brian Earl Spilner
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2:13p, 4/26/16
AG
Updated:
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redline248
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 2:15p, 4/26/16
AG
Haha
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Icecream_Ag
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In reply to wangus12 • 2:15p, 4/26/16
S
quote:
quote:
Some thoughts i've been toying with...

We know the Stark children and their direwolves are closely intertwined -- the mom direwolf being killed by a stag (foreshadowing), Bran "waking up" after Ned kills Sansa's direwolf Lady. Ghost is the only white direwolf of the litter and he was given to Jon. No coincidence. So how will Ghost come into play with Jon's potential resurrection?

Everyone assumes Mel will bring him back or he will awaken on the funeral pyre by fire. What if it's a totally different route and Ghost has to be sacrificed? Just a thought.

Also, I think Dhaario is not to be trusted. There's a scheme to his game. The Second Sons are driven by money. Why is so loyal to Dany? Maybe he isn't? I would not be shocked to see him betray her in some way.
They do that and I'll kill GRRM and the show runners so nothing can be finished
I will remove each and every whisker in his beard individually and then wash his face in a salt/lemon bath before you kill him.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to Furlock Bones • 2:29p, 4/26/16
AG
quote:
I'm glad you're easily entertained and can overlook inconsistencies. Some times I envy people that don't care.
Here is your precious explanation.

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gougler08
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 3:08p, 4/26/16
AG
quote:
I love the little touch of mispelling nieces, since Jaime is dyslexic. Although that is awfully good handwriting for a left hand.
Doesn't he mention in the last episode of Season 5 that he gets a maester to copy it for him after he writes it? I guess, that wouldn't explain the "neices" though
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to gougler08 • 3:10p, 4/26/16
AG
Good call.
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MichaelJ
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4:03p, 4/26/16
AG
Do you think grrm is actually writing both final books now? Instead of just focusing on one?

At this rate, I don't think he finishes the books before dying. I had heard he had a cowriter now, but cannot find anything on the internet confirming that
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SpreadsheetAg
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In reply to FightinTexasAg15 • 4:34p, 4/26/16
AG
quote:
It's possible that the Sand Snakes end up getting killed somehow and leaves Dorne in a state of disarray, and becomes the first place Danny conquers in Westeros on her quest for the throne
This makes sense if you look at a map...
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Ser Pounce
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6:32p, 4/26/16
Everyone on this thread can kiss my furry ass!
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The Dog Lord
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7:57p, 4/26/16
AG
The Ghost dying theory has been discussed by a lot of people. Lightbringer was rumored to be forged by plunging the sword into Azor Ahai's wife's heart as a sacrifice. Ghost or Melisandre have been popular candidates for it to happen again if Jon is indeed Azor Ahai.
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The Dog Lord
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In reply to SpreadsheetAg • 8:00p, 4/26/16
AG
quote:
quote:
It's possible that the Sand Snakes end up getting killed somehow and leaves Dorne in a state of disarray, and becomes the first place Danny conquers in Westeros on her quest for the throne
This makes sense if you look at a map...

This is the only explanation that would somewhat make all of this okay to me.
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The Dog Lord
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In reply to AggieHank86 • 8:03p, 4/26/16
AG
quote:
The way that the show is treating Dorne is an unfortunate indicator that Martin is not planning to make Dorne an important "player" in the conclusion of the books. I say "unfortunate" because I like Prince Doran, and he seems (in the books) to be the only head of a major House who is playing the long game.

Doran is playing cyvasse while everyone else is playing tic-tac-toe. And apparently it will come to nothing.

I still don't agree with these conclusions. I'll admit they could be correct, but the show IS changing things for various reasons already. They likely are trying to stick to the main points, but that doesn't mean all of them.
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SpreadsheetAg
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10:20p, 4/26/16
AG
Still the best song on the show: (Matt Berninger / The National)
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SpreadsheetAg
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10:20p, 4/26/16
AG
Reminds me of: (?)
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TampaBayAg08
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3:45a, 4/27/16
AG
People who are saying Dorne should have been left out are forgetting a key moment in the show--Oberyn vs the Mountain? Of course they had to tell us the backstory of Dorne, why Oberyn wanted to kill the Mountain. Also, there's this one character called Myrcella--are we supposed to just believe she's shipped off and Cersei, who's a very protective mother, just lets Tyrion ship her off and that's that? Leaving the Dorne storyline out would have been stupid... It's what they've done with the storyline now that's disappointing.
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JJxvi
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8:23a, 4/27/16
AG
In both books and show we saw nothing going on in Dorne until Oberyn was dead and Oberyn was great anyway. Showing Hotah, Sand Snakes, Doran, etc has added nothing to the show we didn't already know from Oberyn's actions and words. When I say leave Dorne out, I'm not saying leave Oberyn out.
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MaroonStain
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8:36a, 4/27/16
AG
The Season 6 premier adds to my thought that the series' apex was 'Hardhome.' This Dorne tangent only added sexual innuendo to keep some 'viewers' attention and little else.
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