And yes, I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek about Walder.

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I have no idea what you're trying to ask me. Please rephrase.

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Tyrion Lannister being married to sansa stark does what for house lannister?

It gives them the north, as well as the west. If Tywin only had two children, this would be impossible. It is always better to have more children than less.

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And I will laugh at your logic when it was plainly established that tywins admitted first instinct was to kill tyrion. That was what he wanted to do, but he chose not to.

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Right. Because he's a Lanister.

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And I will laugh at your logic when it was plainly established that tywins admitted first instinct was to kill tyrion. That was what he wanted to do, but he chose not to.

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Right. Because he's a Lanister.

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Precisely. Because he is a legal lannister. "Unless I could prove otherwise"

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There is zero chance Tywin would let a ba$tard drawf live. Especially after it killed his beloved wife. But a drawf Lanister. He'd keep him, even as he hated him.

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By killing Tyrion, Tywin admits he's been cuckolded by the only woman he loves. He might suspect it, but the only way to keep from completely accepting it is to keep Tyrion alive and claim him as a Lannister.

Ironically, even if Tyrion is a Targaryan, he's still half Lannister through Joanna, so when Tywin says he kept him alive because he is a Lannister, he's telling the truth.

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http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Aerys_II_Targaryen

Aerys was very rational and prudent. But after joannas death the cracks in his sanity start showing. Joannas death was also the final nail in the coffin of Tywin/aerys' friendship.

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No. Brienne has a chapter that explains exactly why he went mad. He was captured and imprisoned for 6 months by the lord of duskendale.

It is definitely an interesting theory. Heck, it may even come true. And that just doesn't seem much like Tywin.

Here's to GRRM's health for the next decade or so!

I see Tyrion=Targaryan as the biggest potential surprise of the whole series, simply because it hasn't been alluded to much. If Martin is going to do it, he'll have to start laying some heavier groundwork in the next book.

Lord Randyl Tarly was willing to arrange a lethal hunting accident for his son Samwell, for the crime of being fat and unmanly.

Does anyone actually believe that Tywin Lannister is less ruthless than Lord Tarly?

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Lord Randyl Tarly was willing to arrange a lethal hunting accident for his son Samwell, for the crime of being fat and unmanly.

Does anyone actually believe that Tywin Lannister is less ruthless than Lord Tarly?

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No but Tywin and his ties to his family (even the ******* of his wife) and his name are stronger than Tarly. Also as mentioned above, it would be admitting to his wife cheating on him or being raped on HIS watch. That is something that he cannot tarnish his honor

Personally, the "you are no son of mine" and"since i cant prove you arent mine" I always just attributed to him being a "grotesque midget" and a badge of shame for Tywin. Tywin is obviously a guy with a huge chip on his shoulder in regards to the rest of the realm.

I think its a big stretch to say he isn't a Lannister, but its not out of the realm of possibility.

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Lord Randyl Tarly was willing to arrange a lethal hunting accident for his son Samwell, for the crime of being fat and unmanly.

Does anyone actually believe that Tywin Lannister is less ruthless than Lord Tarly?

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No but Tywin and his ties to his family (even the ******* of his wife) and his name are stronger than Tarly. Also as mentioned above, it would be admitting to his wife cheating on him or being raped on HIS watch. That is something that he cannot tarnish his honor

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But how easy would it have been for him to smother Tyrion when he was born? He was horribly deformed, Joanna had already died, no one would have batted an eye if the child died as well.


The above is why I have a hard time buying into Tyrion is a Targ.

It is possible for him to be a Targ and Tywin not know about it.

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It is possible for him to be a Targ and Tywin not know about it.

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yes of course it's possible....

and regarding the above statement about tywin could have smothered him....i believe, if i recall correctly, they did not expect him to live long anyway. why kill something if it will die on it's own.

Also as t

Also as Tywin himself said he could never prove it. There was a risk he could be killing his own son

Does no one want to address the fact that Joanna was Tywin's first cousin, and that sort of thing can lead to birth defects?

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Does no one want to address the fact that Joanna was Tywin's first cousin, and that sort of thing can lead to birth defects?

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Royalty is always ****ing their relations. Keeping it in the house....

Maybe 3 dragons doesn't equal 3 Targaryans?

Or not yet anyway...

Daenerys T + Jon Snow T = Eddard Targaryan?

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I see Tyrion=Targaryan as the biggest potential surprise of the whole series, simply because it hasn't been alluded to much. If Martin is going to do it, he'll have to start laying some heavier groundwork in the next book.

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Who else is left in Westeros or Essos that could help validate the "claim" that Tyrion is a Targaryan? I guess Tyrion could get burned and come back alive similar to what we think will happen to Jon Snow. Even then, does this really validate someone as a Targaryan or just as some magical person?

GRRM said it himself that Dany walking out of the fire was magical and a one-off thing, not necessarily related to her being a Targ. In Westeros, even if Jon Snow is revived by Melisandre and awakens out of the fire (as theorized), will everyone immediately think "oh my, he is actually a Targ" or will most think "oh my, he is magical".

There would still need to be some sort of connection to Jon and/or Tyrion being of Targaryan blood. Maybe this is where Howland Reed comes in to prove Jon's lineage...

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Maybe 3 dragons doesn't equal 3 Targaryans?

Or not yet anyway...

Daenerys T + Jon Snow T = Rhaeddardrogo Targaryan?

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FIFY

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FIFY

Targs are immune to greyscale. Jorah's will become apparent and Tyrion doesn't have it. Hmmmm.

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Targs are immune to greyscale. Jorah's will become apparent and Tyrion doesn't have it. Hmmmm.

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Where do y'all GET this stuff.

Targaryens are NOT imune to fire OR greyscale. Maegelle Targaryen died of the disease.

Making stuff up about a fictional world!

Calm down. I thought I had read it in earlier speculation on Tyrion being a Targ discussions. Sheesh.

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fictional world

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You take that back!!

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Biggest hole in that interesting theory: if Tywin suspected Tyrion was a Targ, even just a little bit, he would've killed him out right.

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A lot of good reasons have been given as to why Tywin would not have had Tyrion killed. In fact, I think there are more plausible reasons why Tywin would let him live then have him killed. To me, what is the bigger slight to Tywin and House Lannister? The realm seeing a dwarf waddling around with a lions head affixed to his garb or the realm knowing/suspecting that the mad King was banging Lady Joanna? I think the latter.

The people who think Tywin would kill Tyrion based on a suspicion need to think about how serious of a charge Kinslaying is in Westeros. Just the accusation appears to carry as much, if not more taboo that of pedophilia in our society.

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Kinslaying is a great taboo in Westeros. When a member of family kills a relation he/she is dubbed a kinslayer. Any individual who slays a member of their own family is believed to be cursed forever in the sight of gods and men. Many Lords and smallfolk believe this and thus those who slay their own blood are usually looked down upon or shunned. There is a saying, in the religions of both the old gods or new gods, stating that "Old gods or new, it makes no matter,no man is so accursed as the kinslayer".

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Jaime had not wanted to believe it. Kinslaying was worse than kingslaying, in the eyes of gods and men. He knew the boy was mine. I loved Tyrion. I was good to him. Well, but for that one time ... but the imp did not know the truth of that.

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The gods hate kinslayers, even when they kill unknowing.

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For the head of a major house (which is set up perfectly to be a powerhouse in Westeros at the time Tyrion was born), having this type of scandal would be a huge and unnecessary burden. The people in this world really believe in their Gods and one wouldn't bring down their wrath so easily unless they were stupid or desperate. Tywin is neither of those things.

I don't get the impression that Tywin is particularly religious.

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I don't get the impression that Tywin is particularly religious.

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Doesn't matter the populous does.

I know that the books haven't really talked about it, but infant/early childhood mortality in the medieval time period was really really high. It would be easy to pull off stealthily.

Haven't seen this posted yet, but sorry if so.

From AFFC. Genna Lannister (Tywins sister) talking to Jaime.

"Jaime," she said, tugging on his ear, "sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg, and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak... but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year. Men are such thundering great fools. Even the sort who come along once in a thousand years."

Doesn't prove anything, but I always remember that quote when I hear the Tyrion theory.

I read that to mean that Tyrion is more like Tywin than Jamie is rather than any hint that any of the Lannisters were sired by Aerys