is a numero uno. electric funeral, hand of doom, fairies wear boots, nib, rat salad, children of the grave, well, you get the point. bow down to all that is ozzy

what happened to rock?

One of the greatest albums in rock was the Black Sabbath debut album...it was recorded in 8 hours.

What happened to rock....OVER PRODUCTION


JMHO

now, you're not getting to the root of the problem, overproduction was merely compensating for lack of good songs...what happened IMO is that due to the increasing pervasiveness of television and video games, kids don't develop imagination and creativity as well, but that's just my little theory....

Don't forget the Dio era Sabbath. Heaven and Hell is a brilliant album.

Frankly, I find them a little primitive and plodding. I like Ozzy's solo stuff better.

However, I respect them for being the giant, twisted Uterus that gestated the entire Heavy Metal genre. For that I am eternally grateful.

Rock was also killed by the attempt to thrust countless copy-cat acts onto the public, instead of seeking out and promoting creativity and originality amongst bands/artists. Heaven forbid the average person to have varying tastes.

And Sabbath rules.

[This message has been edited by Bacon (edited 9/18/2003 9:11a).]

In answer to Proctor's second post, rock is gradually making a comeback after the grunge era plummet. There are actually a few good newer bands out there in the midst of the garbage like Linkin Park and Korn. I am uncharacteristically optimistic about the future of hard rock/metal.

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I am uncharacteristically optimistic about the future of hard rock/metal.

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How do you figure? What new bands are really impressing you and moving you to make a statement like that?

I felt optimistic a few years ago when Static-X, Slipknot, Sevendust, Coal Chamber, System of a Down, and bands like that were just coming onto the scene. Since that time, I think metal has hit a wall and we need something completely new to come along, and as of yet, I haven't heard it. The displaying of any talent is not cool at all (see St. Anger), and the creativity of RATM, older Korn, etc. is completely gone. If you know of some good bands coming out that make your outlook more positive than mine, please let me know.

Orbit: I think nu-metal and rap influenced metal are a hideous but passing phase. Most of those bands you mentioned are atrocities against rock. On the positive side, I see the following:

1. resurging popularity of old school metal & rock (the Maiden turnout was huge)
2. huge increases in hard rock/metal album sales (over 230% last year)
3. growing popularity of bands like Black Label Society, Down, Brand New Sin
4. the new lineup of Iced Earth with Tim Owens as the singer shows alot of promise

Not every band in the last 10 years is comprised of pathetic losers with dreadlocks trying to mix rap & metal (<cough>KORN<cough> ) . While I prefer old school bands like Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Ozzy or Motley Crue, I can also appreciate current bands like Godsmack, Disturbed, Evanescence, Rammstein, or Lacuna Coil.

When I see Headbanger's Ball or Uranium today, I like about half of the stuff they show. Back in the late 80's, I liked about half of the stuff on Headbanger's Ball. I think we'll all survive just fine.

[This message has been edited by Buck Turgidson (edited 9/19/2003 1:12p).]

Buck, if you are talking about the bands that have a singer that sounds like he is straining to take a s*** then we still have a long way to go.

I recorded the "New" Headbanger's Ball a few times before I gave up. Out of 20 videos I saw 19 which featured the above type singer. The 20th was Metallic which is not that far up the ladder.

It takes absoulutely NO talent to scream as loud as you can into a hot microphone.

I am sorry the music may have some merit but that just kills it for me...JMO

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It takes absoulutely NO talent to scream as loud as you can into a hot microphone.

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Would you also agree that it takes no talent to talk in rhymes over sampled music from other songs with an electronic drumbeat (rap?).

I listen to quite a bit of death/grindcore metal, and while I would agree that the vocalists aren't "singers" and their style may turn off a lot of folks, but I think what they do vocally fits the type of music they are trying to make. Bands like Nile, Suffocation, Shadow's Fall, etc are angry, aggressive, full-tilt metal. I don't think someone "singing", in the traditional sense, to the types of songs they write would sond right at all. This is why I don't care for any black metal. From what I've heard of black metal bands they try to be extreme and melodic at the same time and for me it doen't make a good combination.

Also, don't forget that there are other members of the band other than the vocalists. Metal drummers and guitar players are very talented. The riffing is technically difficult and there are typically a lot of time changes; it's very difficult for a band to stay tight playing that type of music. It does take a great degree of skill to do this, whether you like the music or not.

There are still some good metal bands out there, but chances are you aren't going to be exposed to them on eMpTV. A lot of the good metal these days is coming out of Europe and doesn't get any mainstream media exposure.

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It takes absoulutely NO talent to scream as loud as you can into a hot microphone.

I am sorry the music may have some merit but that just kills it for me...JMO

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I gave props to the musicians...

Oooops.

PLUM LOCO: There is no doubt that good singing is a rare thing these days. I don't like vocalists who grunt and growl 100% of the time. I also don't like singers who just yell all the time like Hatebreed.

Competent singers are not completely extinct, though. I'm hoping this is another phase of experimentation that will hit a dead end soon.

quote:

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Would you also agree that it takes no talent to talk in rhymes over sampled music from other songs with an electronic drumbeat (rap?).

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No.

Buck,

I like some of the old school talented stuff (mainly Metallica, Pantera, Megadeth, etc.). However, that kind of music is dead.

Black Label Society and Down are all right, but it's regurgitated crap that was popular only when it was innovative. I finally got over my fear of nu-metal in the late 90's and now it has gone the same way...just a bunch of regurgitated crap.

I guess when you said you were excited about the direction of music, I thought you meant there were some creative bands pushing the limits of metal. I guess you just meant it is digressing back into the same old stuff that was crushed by Seattle.

I agree that Evanescence, Disturbed, and to a lesser degree Godsmack are putting out some decent stuff, but I'm dissapointed that nothing has really broken through and changed the course of rock music like metal did in the early 70's and grunge did in the early 90's. Heaven knows we need a new direction.

Don't forget the Dio era Sabbath. Heaven and Hell is a brilliant album.

NEON KNIGHTS!!!!!!!!

ttt

Must give props to some of the less prop'd Sabbath tunes:

Hole in the Sky
The Writ
The Wizard
Sabbath, Bloody Sabbath

[This message has been edited by BigAg95 (edited 9/24/2003 11:50a).]

The sad fact of the matter is that there isn't as much money in metal these days as there used to be. It's not like the 80s and early 90s where that was just as big as anything else. Metallica is the only band that can make any kind of cash anymore doing it, and Ozzy a little bit. Labels sign and use the bands they believe will make money. And these days that means being able to get on TRL. The heavier stuff is definitely not at a place where I would like to see it. Watching Uranium and Headbangers Ball leaves much to be desired, a lot of that stuff is just over the top, incoherent screaming with fast guitar doesn't help the industry at all. A few bands out there show promise, Shadow's Fall, Mudvayne, In Flames, and others, but on the whole it's not good. You need something you can package since the talent level is drying up. Maybe if Phil would join back up with Pantera instead of wasting his time with Down and Superjoint Ritual some people would remember what fun metal is but good luck since he has lost his mind.

-"There are 3 ways to do things: the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power way."
-"Isn't the Max Power way the wrong way?"
-"Yes, but faster!"