i go through these pretty quickly as audiobooks for running and commutes.

i was starting book 3 when i suggested to my wife she should try them. she's most of the way through book 1 and i just finished book 5.

I'm going to tell her to just go ahead and put the book down and forget about it. the dreary Daenerys chapters just go on and on etc etc and no one gives a ****.

give me some live conniving lannisters, stop killing then kinda sorta bringing people back (i'm lookind at you caitlyn gregor bran) *exception* i'll take a zombie frankenneddard.

anyone that simpers or wears slippers or has little birds can just die.

at least he killed off grand maester pycelle

unrelated... when does the next one come out???

[This message has been edited by Tomdoss92 (edited 8/21/2012 1:10p).]

You know nothing Tomdoss92...

quote:

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Jon Snow=FitzChivalry Farseer

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Having just finished the Farseer and Tawny Fool series I'll be pretty bummed out if that's the path GRRM decides to take.

There was a reference earlier to Jon Snow and "R + L = J". For the life of me, I have no idea what that is. I have read all five book, so I am spoiler proof.

Any help?

Someone posted a link to a Spanish site awhile back which basically says Winds of Winter will be out in January 2014. I'd call that a VERY tentative date.

However, I think GRRM has figured out how to get Dany out of Slavers Bay. I'd guess the storylines begin to converge quickly once back in Westeros.

It means Jon is likely the son of




SO SPOILERY IT HASN'T EVEN BEEN SPOILED IN THE BOOKS YET







Rhaegar Targ and Lyanna Stark.

My mind is officially blown.

You'd be surprised at how a lot of the fanbase subscribes to that. I typed in Jon Snow (I have only read the first two and no I don't mind spoilers) and there was a large amount of hits in relation to that theory.

R+L=J

I think it makes perfect sense in the context of the story. It blew my mind like the Tyler Durden reveal because, looking back, you see all the signs you missed.

Since GRRM hates the Starks, he will reveal this then John will die for real.

I think that Aegon is actually Illyrio's son. It would make sense to why he and Varys are so invested in him and the politics of Westeros. I think that Illyrio's second wife was described as silver-haired (possibly a Blackfyre?) and used Aegon's resemblance to a Blackfyre to gain control over the Golden Company who are bound by blood to placing a Blackfyre on the iron throne.

quote:

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R+L=J

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This has been bandied around so much. I hope GRRM decides to throw a curveball and makes this not be the case. It would be a terrible letdown since everyone has basically bought in to this theory.

See, I disagree - I think that NOT having L+R=J would almost be a cop-out. As an explanation it
ties up a lot of loose ends and explains a lot of otherwise inexplicable, uncharacteristic behavior by Ned, Rhaegar, the kingsguard, etc.

What I would rather see is R+L=J be true - and have it not matter one bit. Let Jon find out who his parents are, hell, let all of Westeros find out, but this isn't exactly the kind of story where the rightful heir will appear and all will bow down. I'd like to see Jon absorb it, nod, and say something like, "be that as it may, but I'm a Stark" and keep on keeping on (whatever he is doing at that point - hopefully not being undead).

To me, THAT would be a better twist that finding out something totally anti-climatic like Ashara Dayne was Jon's mother.

Being Martin, there's also a chance we will never find out who Jon's parents are. Which I personally think would be a cop-out, and a deliberate FU to the fans. He has scattered so many clues and tidbits about it throughout the series that to just drop it would be very bad writing, in my opinion.

Twist of the Century!

Catelyn Stark is actually his mother BUT he is the result of some supernatural birth because she was impregnated by Ned in her anus, thus she always has that look of disgust when she looks at Jon...because she pooped an 8lb baby.

YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Quote: uncharacteristic behavior by Ned, Rhaegar, the kingsguard, etc.

What uncharacteristic behavior are you referring to? I always thought Rhaegar had a touch of the Aerys disease and that's why he was irrational when it came to Lyanna. But what uncharacteristic behavior did Ned or the kingsgaurd do? How did they hide Lyanna's pregnancy? She was betrothed to Robert, right? And Why doesn't Jon look Targaeryn? they had pretty stong bloodlines...silver hair and purple eyes.

Rhaegar and Lyanna left the scene shortly after the Tourney of Harrenhall and went to the Tower of Joy in Dorne. Rhaegar stayed there with her until the rebellion was well under way and he came out for the Battle of the Trident where he was killed by Robert.

The uncharacteristic behavior by the KG is that 3 of them stayed with Lyanna while there were no Targs there, yet they fought to the death knowing it was hopeless. They wouldn't have done that just for a dead Rhaegar's girlfriend when KL was sacked and the rest of the Targs went to Dragonstone before leaving for Essos.

The key figure is really Howland Reed. He knows everything since he was at Harrenhall and the Tower of Joy and yet he hasn't made an appearance. The nobles that have the document that effectively make Jon the King of the North now also are with him.

I guess I need to go back and do some re-reading. I'm about 200 pages into ADWD, so, I've started to get a little fuzzy on some of the past stuff. Thanks.

Given that it sounds like Lyanna maybe wasn't abducted after all and could have died giving birth to Jon.

What Aggie93 said. In addition, Rhaeger, according to pretty much everyone who knew him, did NOT have a crazy streak - he was dedicated to being the "ideal prince" and fulfilling the prophecies. To randomly kidnap and rape the daughter of one of the most important lords in Westeros was out of character, again, based on recollections of those who knew him, for the most part. His dad, sure, but Rhaegor wasn't like Aerys.

As for Ned, just the idea of him siring a ******* is out of character, whereas to protect and raise his sister's child would be very much something he would do. And it was clear from his memory that whatever Lyanna asked him to "promise" was a very big deal.

Aggie93 covered the anomaly of the Kingsguard staying to guard a random dying chick when their King was under siege. Their staying to guard Rhaegor's newborn son makes a lot more sense.

All in all, there are just a lot of loose ends that make sense with L+R=J and stay loose without it.

Supposedly GRRM has said that more is going to be revealed about Dayne and his motives.

I have been doing some re-reading. When Egg was given the crown, three Targaryens were passed over. 1.) A feeble daughter of Daeron, 2.) a young son of Aerion Brightflame and 3.) Maester Aemon.

Since Aerion went across the sea and joined mercenaries, I am really wondering what happened to his son. The son of Aerion Targaryen could have definitely kept that line alive and waited for the right time to move... So could Aegon IV be a descendant from Brightflame rather than Blackfyre? Or a descendant of both lines?

[This message has been edited by 3rdCoastAg (edited 11/20/2012 10:55a).]

quote:

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NEXT APPEARANCE:

March 22, 2013
featured speaker:
"Deeper Than Swords: Celebrating the Work of
George R. R. Martin"
Texas A&M University
College Station, TX, USA

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Hmmmm...might have to make this.

dammit, reading this thread makes me want to read every single book all over.