Why Breaking Bad is better than The Wire, The Sopranos, and Mad Men

1,848 Views | 27 Replies | Last: 13 yr ago by Citizen Reign
20ag07
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Really good article by Chuck Klosterman today (if a bit heavier/deeper than most people care to take their TV).http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6763000/bad-decisions
quote:
Breaking Bad is the only one built on the uncomfortable premise that there's an irrefutable difference between what's right and what's wrong, and it's the only one where the characters have real control over how they choose to live.

Certainly, all of these series grapple with morality — more than anything else,3 it's the reason they're better than the shows around them. But the first three examples all create realities where individual agency is detached. Mad Men is set in the 1960s, so every action the characters make is not really a reflection on who they are; they're mostly a commentary on the era. Don Draper is a bad husband, but "that's just how it was in those days." Characters can do or say whatever they want without remorse, because almost all their decisions can be excused (or at least explained) by the circumstances of the period.
quote:
Now, The Sopranos and The Wire were set in the present, so the actions of their casts are harder to rationalize away — but both shows had fixed worldviews, so that process is still possible. Every important person on The Sopranos was involved with organized crime, and its protagonist was a (likeable) transgressor who regularly murdered for money — subsequently, there were never any unresolved questions over Tony Soprano's "goodness." When Tony did something nice, he did it in spite of the fact that (we all know) he's fundamentally bad (otherwise he couldn't exist as the person he was). The Sopranos was compelling because we were continually watching innately bad people operate within a world not unlike our own — this, in one sentence, was the crux of the series. Meanwhile, The Wire was more nuanced: In The Wire, everyone is simultaneously good and bad. The cops are fighting crime, but they're all specifically or abstractly corrupt; the drug dealers are violent criminals, but they're less hypocritical and hold themselves to a higher ethical standard. There were sporadic exceptions to this rule, but those minor exceptions only served to accentuate its overall relativist take on human nature: Nobody is totally positive and nobody is totally negative, and our inherently flawed assessment of those qualities hinges on where we come from and what we want to believe. And this, of course, is closer to how life actually is (which is why The Wire felt so realistic). It's a more sophisticated way to depict the world. However — from a fictional, narrative perspective — it ends up making the message a little less meaningful.
quote:
This is where Breaking Bad diverges from the other three entities. Breaking Bad is not a situation in which the characters' morality is static or contradictory or colored by the time frame; instead, it suggests that morality is continually a personal choice. When the show began, that didn't seem to be the case: It seemed like this was going to be the story of a man (Walter White, portrayed by Bryan Cranston) forced to become a criminal because he was dying of cancer. That's the elevator pitch. But that's completely unrelated to what the show has become. The central question on Breaking Bad is this: What makes a man "bad" — his actions, his motives, or his conscious decision to be a bad person? Judging from the trajectory of its first three seasons, Breaking Bad creator Vince Gilligan believes the answer is option No. 3. So what we see in Breaking Bad is a person who started as one type of human and decides to become something different. And because this is television — because we were introduced to this man in a way that made him impossible to dislike, and because we experience TV through whichever character we understand the most — the audience is placed in the curious position of continuing to root for an individual who's no longer good. And this is not a case like J.R. Ewing or Al Swearengen, where a character's over-the-top evilness immediately defined his charm; this is a series in which the main character has actively become evil, but we still want him to succeed. At this point, Walter White could do anything and I would continue to support his cause. In fact, his evolution has been so deft that I feel weird describing his persona as "evil," even though I can't justify why it would be incorrect to do so.
quote:
Walter White's on-going metamorphosis is what makes Breaking Bad great. But that doesn't go far enough. It's not just that watching White's transformation is interesting; what's interesting is that this transformation involves the fundamental core of who he supposedly is, and that this (wholly constructed) core is an extension of his own free will. The difference between White in the middle of Season 1 and White in the debut of Season 4 is not the product of his era or his upbringing or his social environment. It's a product of his own consciousness. He changed himself. At some point, he decided to become bad, and that's what matters.


[This message has been edited by 20ag07 (edited 7/13/2011 9:35a).]
aCosmicBandito
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AG
Never could get into Breaking Bad. Great acting and it is put together well but none of the characters are redeemable or likable to me. I also hate meth and the effects it has on communities so I could never feel any sympathy or root for Walt even in the early episodes.

And the head meth black guy always reminds me of that stupid Chocolate Rain video.
sharkenleo
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Its utter unpredctabiliy. You never have a clue what's going to happen next, and I love it.

Also, the line between good and bad, right or wrong is so blurred it's practically nonexistant.
jetch17
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AG
quote:
And the head meth black guy always reminds me of that stupid Chocolate Rain video
mhayden_original
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But that means its still not as good as The Shield, right?
Doug Christie
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quote:
Its utter unpredctabiliy. You never have a clue what's going to happen next, and I love it.


my only concern for the upcoming season is that we do pretty much know what's going to happen. there's going to be a showdown between gus and walt and because walt's the protagonist, walt will win out. I guess we don't know how that might happen, but hopefully they throw us some curveballs along the way.
biochemistry ag
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AG
by that logic, Weeds should be just as 'epic' as Breaking Bad
Red Five
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AG
quote:
Also, the line between good and bad, right or wrong is so blurred it's practically nonexistant.

That is the complete opposite of the point the article is making.
bojangles
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quote:
Also, the line between good and bad, right or wrong is so blurred it's practically nonexistant.

lol, wut?
PooDoo
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AG
I'm not going to read the article but I'd probably put Breaking Bad above The Wire.
sharkenleo
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quote:
That is the complete opposite of the point the article is making.


I didn't read the whole thing but this is one of my favorite things about the show. At the beginning of the show you completely root for Walter, but his downfall to where he is now is so gradual that you never see him as a bad guy. I mean even when he indirectly kills Jessie's girlfriend (which I still think is the worst thing he's done), you still see the situation through his perspective and you can't bring yourself to see him as the bad guy.
bojangles
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the fact that you (we all) root for walt doesnt blur the line between good/bad or right/wrong. it is pretty damn clear that the wrong/bad things he has done are wrong, and several actions have had unintended and or negative consequences. he absolutely knows what he is doing is wrong.
sharkenleo
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running over the guys in full measures

right or wrong?
hardknox53
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I've just started watching Breaking Bad so I skipped through most of your comments but I wil say I'm enjoying it a whole hell of a lot more than Mad Men. What an overhyped piece of crap. All characters are annoying except Sterling.
cone
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AG
quote:
At some point, he decided to become bad, and that's what matters.


somewhat disagree. his evolution has been incremental, and always justified in Walt's mind. even with the Heisenberg personality, i don't think Walt has come to embrace his role as the bad guy.

and that's one of my favorite parts of the show - Walt constantly having to convince himself that he's doing the right thing.

i feel like that the crux of what breaking bad means... we're all one immoral decision away from a slow spiral into evil.

[This message has been edited by SuperDave03 (edited 7/13/2011 3:52p).]
bojangles
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quote:
his evolution has been incremental, and always justified in Walt's mind. even with the Heisenberg personality, i don't think Walt has come to embrace his role as the bad guy.

denial is a powerful thing. you need it in order to convince yourself that the actions are all completely justified, and arent part of a larger pattern.
et98
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AG
The points in the article are spot on. But what seperates Breaking Bad from Weeds is the fact that the writing and the acting constantly make me subconsciously put myself in Walt's shoes. I personally have never done drugs, never committed a major crime, and never really done anything bad. However, it's possible that I would've done every thing he's done...knowing that what I was doing was absolutely terrible...if I were in his shoes.

On another note, I'm not convinced that Walt let Jesse's girlfriend die on purpose. I think he may have just frozen up due to the shock of realizing that he was watching someone OD & die right in front of him. In this case, it would have been his innocence that let her die, not his evilness. I personally could see myself freezing up like that. However, it's definitely his evilness that's kept if from Jesse all this time.

Also, (sorry for going off-topic), but the poster who mentioned Mad Men is absolutely correct. I like the show, but it doesn't hold a candle to Breaking Bad...and Roger Sterling is by far my favorite character.
bojangles
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quote:
what seperates Breaking Bad from Weeds
is that weeds is a forgettable, below average show, and BB is one of the best TV series ever made.
cone
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AG
quote:
I'm not convinced that Walt let Jesse's girlfriend die on purpose.


he certainly had no motivation to save her life
Charles Bronson
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He would have definitely ended up doing hard time in federal pound me in the @ss prison had he really tried to save her. He definitely felt bad about it...so he still has a conscience.
Ol Jock 99
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AG
quote:
But that means its still not as good as The Shield, right?

Did not go unappreciated.
amg405
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AG
Solid article that makes a lot of good points, but to date the Wire is easily my favorite show ever.
TxAginAz
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AG
Breaking Bad is a great show but it has a few more seasons to go before it tops The Sopranos. Maybe after that it will become a part of pop culture.

I've never seen The Wire but The Sopranos was so good that references to the show started to become included in other shows and movies. I don't think BB has reached that point yet.

*********************************************************************************************************************
"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."



Claude os, aperi oculos!

[This message has been edited by TxAginAz (edited 7/13/2011 6:50p).]
pb488
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AG
omar > walt
agjag06
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AG
I'm halfway through season 3 of Sopranos......that **** sucks compared to Breaking Bad and the Wire.
Ag 11
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Heisenberg
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Great article and that first sentence sums it up nicely.

the difference between weeds and breaking bad (besides the quality of writing and acting) is the ambivalence of all the regular characters as well as the ambiguity of their actions. Nancy's arrogance and entitled attitude made it pretty easy to dislike her.

The thing I love about BB is the role reversal of the two main characters. Walts emergence into a greedy, dark and cold blooded killer, and jesse's progression into a more serious and kindhearted person.

Not to mention the intertwining of storylines as well as the foreshadowing that takes place at the beginning of episodes. In an episode from last season, they went all the way back to the 1st or 2nd episode of the series to show you how the RV was purchased, and used parts of that scene to piece together a different storyline. You dont see that in most shows.


Ive been saying for about 9 months now that this is a very important season for BB. Not only because of their 13 month hiatus, but alot of good shows enjoyed early success and then tailed off after 3 seasons. Im going to have to wait until the end of this season to declare it better than the sopranos, or the wire, but it definitely looks like its on its way.
Charles Bronson
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quote:
The thing I love about BB is the role reversal of the two main characters. Walts emergence into a greedy, dark and cold blooded killer, and jesse's progression into a more serious and kindhearted person.



Citizen Reign
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Comparing Mad Men to Breaking Bad just doesn't work for me. Two completely different types of shows

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