As to not bog down the other thread where a WW discussion popped up, I thought I'd start a new thread. Nothing like starting a thread for a show that's been off the air for 4 years.

A friend and I were talking about TWW the other day. She's far more addicted to TWW than I am, including somewhat stalking Martin Sheen when he was speaking in Dallas a couple of years ago.

What are your thoughts on Ryan Pierce? I don't really understand why they brought him on to the cast. Seems like a strange addition that didn't really add much to the cast (although I enjoyed his contributions). But most of the other short lived cast members like Matthew Perry, Christian Slater or the guy from NCIS were more for big names and short story arcs.

I watched "The Supremes" earlier today. One of the best post-Sorkin episodes IMO.

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including somewhat stalking Martin Sheen when he was speaking in Dallas a couple of years ago.

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I don't want to derail this, but why in the hell would anyone want to hear what he has to say about anything?

First off, she is more of the persuasion to be inclined to listen to what he has to say, but secondly she really is a die hard WW fan and because of that has become a huge Sheen fan. She owns most all of his movies now.

It's kind of a cool story (if stalkerish).

For her birthday a couple of years ago, her best friend (also a WW devotee) got them tickets to the SMU speaker symposium where Sheen was speaking. They had a Q&A at the end and my friend got in line. She wanted to ask him a question about the episode "The Two Cathedrals" specifically the scene at the end where he curses God in Latin and puts out his cigarette on the floor of the National Cathedral.

They ended the Q&A when she was the next in line.

Her friend somehow knew he was staying at the Mansion in Dallas, and suggested they go get some drink that they're famous for as a nightcap to end the night. As they were sitting in the hotel bar, Sheen walked in for a drink as well. My friend politely walked up and asked if she could ask him the question she didn't get to ask earlier. He couldn't have been more gracious and ended up sitting with them and just chatted for over an hour.

Interestingly, as as devout Catholic he said that he did have a big problem with the scene, but also said that by far that was his favorite episode of the series.

I think Ryan provided another character for Josh to play against when the show was so focused on him and his missteps. It was much more interesting to have him around and see how he boosted Josh back up as opposed to having Donna save him yet again.

It's been a while, but what happened to Ryan. Does he take another position in the government? Surprised Josh when all of a sudden he's sitting on the other side of the table from him?

To me there are two West Wings...the first four seasons (or whenever Sorokin left) and then the rest of the series.

WW really lost me in the last few seasons when they were on the campaign trail.

I still think West Wing will go down as the best show ever on television (network or cable).

I miss that show, it was one of my favorites. Getting the entire series on DVD was a great gift.

I will never be fully satisfied in life until Aaron Sorkin has another series on TV. I even managed to find awesomeness in Studio 60, after initially hating it for its preachiness and smugness.

Why HBO has not yet hired him, I cannot figure out.

If you like Sorokin buy the Sports Night series.

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I watched "The Supremes" earlier today. One of the best post-Sorkin episodes IMO.

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i agree. simply awesome episode that caught some of the sorkin magic.

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I will never be fully satisfied in life until Aaron Sorkin has another series on TV. I even managed to find awesomeness in Studio 60, after initially hating it for its preachiness and smugness. still, it is one of the best shows to have ever been on tv.

Why HBO has not yet hired him, I cannot figure out.

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HBO would be a great venue for him and Tommy Schlamme. but from the looks of it, he signed a 3 script deal with Dreamworks, so looks like we wont see him on tv until thats done.

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It's been a while, but what happened to Ryan. Does he take another position in the government? Surprised Josh when all of a sudden he's sitting on the other side of the table from him?

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yeah he went to work for another congressman in his last episode surprising josh and using the lessons josh taught him. they just kind of threw the character away without saying anything, much like Mandy and Sam and a handful of others.

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To me there are two West Wings...the first four seasons (or whenever Sorokin left) and then the rest of the series.

WW really lost me in the last few seasons when they were on the campaign trail.

I still think West Wing will go down as the best show ever on television (network or cable).

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agree 100%. although it would have been interesting to see what Sorkin would have done with the storylines had he stayed on. i read that he ended season 4 the way that he did (Zoeys kidnapping, Bartlett resigning the Presidency to the speaker) as a big **** YOU to NBC. Would he have still done that if he continued to write the show?

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America's destiny is not of our own choosing. We did not seek nor did we provoke an assault on our freedom and our way of life. We did not expect nor did we invite a confrontation with evil. Yet the true measure of a people's strength is how they rise to master that moment when it does arrive.

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If you like Sorokin buy the Sports Night series.

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yet another series canceled way too soon by the networks.

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America's destiny is not of our own choosing. We did not seek nor did we provoke an assault on our freedom and our way of life. We did not expect nor did we invite a confrontation with evil. Yet the true measure of a people's strength is how they rise to master that moment when it does arrive.

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If you like Sorokin buy the Sports Night series.

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Proud owner already. In all fairness, saying it was cancelled too soon may not be entirely true. Sorkin had already moved on to TWW by the end of the second season, and season 5 of TWW showed up what happens when he hands over his shows to be written by others. A S3 of Sports Night would probably have disappointed. HBO actually offered, but Sorkin declined so he could focus on TWW. Today, would a S3 of Sports Night on HBO been worth sacrificing TWW? No way in hell. But the thought of that show operating under the HBO language and subject matter freedom is pretty damn tempting.

Certified West Wing addict here. I was a hit and miss fan during the actual run of the series mostly because I was in school, but I've watched the entire series at least 3 times. I have the DVR set up to record the two episodes a day and I can't pull away. I've tried to tell myself to stop for a year or so or just watch an episode here and there, but every time I watch one I'm hooked again.

After school, I actually interned in the West Wing for Ari Fleischer (Press Secretary and real life C.J. Cregg) and I can tell you that the set is not all that accurate mainly because there is not nearly as much space as is portrayed but there are some offices that are dead on. The Briefing Room, Oval, Lobby, Roosevelt Room, and Porticos are all pretty accurate. There are NO cubicles! These are a few, but there are some other inaccuracies, but hey, it's TV!
Absolutely one of the best shows that has ever been on TV.

Ah, Sportsnight!

I searched youtube but couldn't find the clip of the guy getting hit by the airbag over and over again. That show was greatness!

I never watched it during the series (too young, I guess). But caught it at the beginning of the series on Bravo and was immediately hooked. I now own all the seasons and have watched the series through a couple of times.

To answer the OP, Ryan Pierce's internship ended in the episode "Talking Points" and goes to work for a Senator. Same episode that introduces Kate Harper, as Donna and Fitzwallace leave to go on the doomed delegation to the Middle East.


I'm curious. For those who are WW fans, how interested in politics are you? There is obviously more to love about the show, but I was wondering if there was anyone that likes the show, but doesn't have some tie to government or politics in real life. I think in order to properly appreciate the show, you have to at least have an above average level of knowledge about the government and political systems. It moves too fast, if you don't. Is that true?

I think if the show was set in the local/state political arena you would need to be way more into politics to enjoy it. Because this show was basically a workplace drama (with some comedy) set in the White House I think the interest is broad. Most people are aware and interested in national politics at some level.

I agree, but it can be a very intellectual show. Goes much deeper than say Spin City. I've wondered how that translates into an interest in the show. Are there people who watch it for just the characters and the 'on-the-surface' stuff without caring about the underlying political plots and storylines?

I'd say yes, because I was never bothered by the liberal slant of the show, and I lean as far right as you can. I appreciated the genius of the rapid-fire dialogue and not necessarily the points that were being made by characters.

I think the show did a good job of acknowledging that while there are obviously very different opinions on either side of the aisle, the biggest thing is that people do their best for the country and intellectually think about problems and solutions.

The token conservatives on the show like Ainsley and Joe Quincy were portrayed as dedicated and thoughtful public servants. Alan Alda was a great example of a strong Republican that wasn't controlled by the far right (which I'm sure was hard for him as an actor to swallow).

Sure Speaker Haffley was an *******, but it wasn't because he was a Republican, it was because he was the majority leader trying to flew his will over an opposing White House. Speaker Walken was portrayed 180* from Haffley as as dedicated public servant.

Also, they would poke fun at the liberal position from time to time. My particular favorite was when Donna was asking Josh for money back from the government since there was a surplus.

"What if I use that money to buy a DVD player. That stimulates the economy."
"But the DVD player might be made in Japan."
"What if I promise to buy an American DVD player"
"We don't trust you"
"Why not?"
"Because we're Democrats!"

The liberal slant never bothers me in the show. In fact, I find myself agreeing with many characters on the show most of the time.

Except CJ. Whenever she gets off on some of her personal vendettas (i.e. her rant about the women of Qumar getting beaten), it becomes too much.

Yeah, I watched the episode last week where the mayor of DC wanted some money for vouchers. Both Charlie and the mayor were all for vouchers. In their worldview, it wasn't giving up on public schools, it was giving some kids a chance.

Both Charlie and Donna as the neophytes serve as decent counters to their superiors entrenched in Democratic politics and philosophies.

TWW addict here as well. Love the show.

A couple of quick comments...

1) Didn't they use Mark Harmon before NCIS started?

2) Supremes...awesome episode.

3) As I said in other thread, I would've like to have seen Sorkin handle the Zoey Bartlet mess. I thought the last episode of season four and the first two of season five were just outstanding...but I can't help thinking AS would've gone in another direction with the story.

4) Two Cathedrals is no-doubt the best WW episode ever, but it's a horrible episode to start new customers with (IMO). My first WW episode (can't remember the title - pretty bad for an addict) was the one in season 2 where the tropical storm knocks out the tindership (noted in TC)...and I caught this probably well into season 5. Catching up with the show on Bravo, in 2003, was a pain in the ass.

Even the pilot (Season 1; Episode 1) was awesome. I think it was called POTUS and it introduced us to all of the characters. In this episode Rob Lowe's character is in a relationship with a high price call girl and the president has a wreck on his bicycle. From what I remember that is all that happened and it is still great.

I had a television crush on Donna. I really liked that girl.

Another thing I love about the West Wing is the opening. There is always some scenes to set up the episode and then it fades into one of the best title/opening credit sequences ever. Once you watched the opening scenes and hear that song it was hard to pull yourself away from the show.

One of my few complaints about the Sorokin years is that there was WAY too much screen time given to Toby. Although important, this was one of my least favorite characters and sometimes he wore me out. My theory is that Sorokin and that actor were good friends in real life (or something like that). I also hated Abigail (Stockard Channing). I thought the First Lady should have been a slender, classier, less biatchy woman. I wish more screen time had been alotted to CJ

I don't know when West Wing started going down in quality, but I think it was during the fifth season and definitely when they started following the campaign trail.

Here is my theory on why Sorokin will never create another series as good as The West Wing. Sorokin is a drug addict (Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip is semi-autobiographical as far as a producer on drugs) and he had his addiction under control during the first four seasons. The drug use helped keep his creative juices flowing and it didn't get out of hand until the end of his involvement with the WW. Obviously he was walking a dangerous and thin line here.







[This message has been edited by Old Main (edited 2/11/2010 8:29a).]

Mark Harmon finished up on West Wing the year before he started on NCIS. Funny you mention him. His last episode (when he was shot and killed), 'Posse Comitatus', is one of my favorites. Bartlet tells Ritchie "In the future, if you're wondering: "Crime. Boy, I don't know." is when I decided to kick your ass."

That happened to be the season finale of Season 3. So, teamed together with Two Cathedrals and the end of Season 4, we realize that Sorkin really knew how to end a season with a bang.


And, btw, the episode with the tender ship was "The State Dinner" (S1 E7). But, don't worry. I had to look it up too.

If I remember correctly, Sheen's character really wasn't supposed to have such a large role but people loved it and they went with it.

I love that show and it had some of the best dialogue I've had the pleasure of watching. Great writing, at first.

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If I remember correctly, Sheen's character really wasn't supposed to have such a large role but people loved it and they went with it.

I love that show and it had some of the best dialogue I've had the pleasure of watching. Great writing, at first.

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You are correct. Originally the show wasn't supposed to be about the President, it was supposed to be just on the staffers. Pretty tough not to love Jed Bartlett.

And Old Main, really?

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I also hated Abigail (Stockard Channing). I thought the First Lady should have been a slender, classier, less biatchy woman. I wish more screen time had been alotted to CJ

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As a wife for an academic, classically educated sharp-witted short, pudgy guy from New Hampshire?

Abbey needed to be smart, strong and quick witted to be able to both attract and match up with Jed. And I don't think that he is someone that would put a high priority on the fact that his wife has a 23" waist.

Besides maybe The President is a tit man? To quote Lord John Marbury:

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May I inquire, Mr. President - the first thing that attracted you to Abigail - was it her magnificent breasts?

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I understand where you are coming from, but this is television and I thought they could have found a more attractive first lady and the character didn't need to be such a biatch. I just didn't enjoy the time we spend with Abigail.

I hate stockard channing with all my heart (and eyes).

She's pissed me off since grease. B!itchy, ugly, sour, arrogant, shes got it all...

I never had a problem with Stockard Channing's looks. First ladies aren't typically bombshells. It was her *****iness and loudmouthed attempts to have the President do her will that really made me hate the character. I understand that first ladies have their issues they work on (Bush had the school library/education thing and Michelle Obama is tackling fat kids), but Mrs. Bartlet nearly cost Jed the presidency by falsifying Zoe's college medical history.

After that revelation and losing her license, she should have laid low and shut the hell up. But, unfortunately she didn't and, instead, recruited Amy Gardner (the hot femi-nazi) to be her chief of staff. And together they continued their "I am woman. Hear me roar." routine. Ugh.

[This message has been edited by Spicy McHaggis (edited 2/13/2010 4:30p).]

Spicy, I couldn't agree more. In the fictitous world of The West Wing the first lady should have been classy, not loud and biatchy.

Again, I have very few complaints about the first four seasons. Too much Toby and biatchy first lady...that is a short list for a very complex show with an ensemble cast.

but amy as the first lady's chief of staff did provide one of the show's funniest scenes... amy, will, and cj talking to the old lady from the D.A.R.

Mark Harmon was in The West Wing? I've watched every single one of them, but don't remember his character at all. Was he a secret service agent?

He was CJ's personal secret service agent after she started getting threats. He is in the show throughtout the 2nd half of season 3, and is somewhat a romantic interest for her. In one of the the top espisodes ever, the S3 finale, he's is killed in an NYC convenience store when he interrupts and tries to foil an armed robbery.

He's possibly the best guest star character they ever had, right there with Adam Arkin, who was incredible in his episodes. I'm convinced that top actors love working with Sorkin, because he knows how to make them look great.

SIMON
Okay. Well, it's our first time out, this is exciting. We're not under the umbrella of the president's protection so there's a couple things I wanna tell you. In a populated place, a department store, I always walk ahead of you. I don't like more than five feet between us so if you ditch me cause my back is to you, that would be too much. Also it would give me no choice but to surround you with department store security before you made it to Men's Accessories. You're a very recognizable woman, if you're surrounded by security, frankly, people are gonna point and stare.

C.J.
Anything else, Agent Sunshine?

SIMON
It's Special Agent Sunshine, but that couldn't matter less.