nai06 said:

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Serious Lee said:

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now that the free-thinking world seems to be waking up to college mostly being a big business like anything else, does anybody know somebody who turned the tables on the higher education establishment?

Im talking attending lectures without student credentials, BS'ing their resume with degree that wasn't awarded, some combination of fraud at a career fair that led to a successfull employment opportunity?

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Are there a lot of companies not verify that info?

We do education, certification, and employment verification on every new hire in addition to background checks.

I get people that lie on their resume about stuff and it's usually pretty obvious. Same thing with all the resume "hacks" and using AI to write a resume and cover letter.

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I wasn't in the corporate world but five years or so before having my own business, so my sample size is rather small. But I did work for an oil and gas company, 4,000 or so employees, and they hired some dude to head up some sort of health and fitness department. One of the major oil and gas companies and done that, so our company did the copy cat thing.

They hired this guy who said he had a degree (PhD, I think) in whatever it is that is in that field and was also supposedly a lawyer. After around six months, they were not able to verify his credentials. Come to find out it was all a lie so they got rid of him.

It doesn't always end badly for folks who lie about their credentials. About 7 or 8 years ago the City of Houston had a graduate engineer who applied for a promotion. It was discovered that she never completed an engineering degree. She had worked as a grad engineer for several years by then, signing off on hundreds or even thousands of projects. Instead of firing her, they simply denied her promotion and changed her classification and let her continue doing similar work.

Ryan the Temp said:

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It doesn't always end badly for folks who lie about their credentials. About 7 or 8 years ago the City of Houston had a graduate engineer who applied for a promotion. It was discovered that she never completed an engineering degree. She had worked as a grad engineer for several years by then, signing off on hundreds or even thousands of projects. Instead of firing her, they simply denied her promotion and changed her classification and let her continue doing similar work.

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Yeah, I expect those working in government would be much more likely to get a pass for doing something like that than someone working in the real world for a for profit company. Put that person in a job with a major oil and gas company, or chemical company, or engineering firm and those companies would be shatting themselves and going back over the work this person signed off on! And because of that, they would get rid of this person pretty quick.

one safe place said:

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nai06 said:

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Serious Lee said:

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now that the free-thinking world seems to be waking up to college mostly being a big business like anything else, does anybody know somebody who turned the tables on the higher education establishment?

Im talking attending lectures without student credentials, BS'ing their resume with degree that wasn't awarded, some combination of fraud at a career fair that led to a successfull employment opportunity?

---

Are there a lot of companies not verify that info?

We do education, certification, and employment verification on every new hire in addition to background checks.

I get people that lie on their resume about stuff and it's usually pretty obvious. Same thing with all the resume "hacks" and using AI to write a resume and cover letter.

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I wasn't in the corporate world but five years or so before having my own business, so my sample size is rather small. But I did work for an oil and gas company, 4,000 or so employees, and they hired some dude to head up some sort of health and fitness department. One of the major oil and gas companies and done that, so our company did the copy cat thing.

They hired this guy who said he had a degree (PhD, I think) in whatever it is that is in that field and was also supposedly a lawyer. After around six months, they were not able to verify his credentials. Come to find out it was all a lie so they got rid of him.

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I have always thought you could make an amazing TV show called something like "Fake it Til You Make It" that followed people who were completely unqualified for jobs, but could lie and use buzzwords convincingly enough to get hired. If somebody has a high school diploma and can last 6 months at a $150k/yr position, and can get hired once a year, that is $75k per year with 6 months vacation..

permabull said:

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Teslag said:

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fc2112 said:

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If you are in a career where someone without a college degree could succeed, you are in a pretty horrible career.

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The most successful person in my high school class went to HVAC school instead of college. He now owns multiple business locations in 3 cities and employees 200 technicians.

The guy has more money than he knows what to do with.

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Survival bias, how many people who tried starting their own business went broke?

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How many people went to college and make 50k?

Serious Lee said:

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without going into the intracacies of the the higher education system and the corporations that sponsor them, what if i told you i had a high school friend that went to a semesters worth of mgmt 209 class with me, took what he learned from keith swim, dr. jennings and the like, and parlayed that into a succesfull marketing career, all without ever having a course hour to his name?

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As a small business owner MGMT 211 (same class) was the most useful class I took at A&M. Most of my classes in my degree are useless.

I'm at $56k at 40 years old. No benefits either and I'm a veteran too.

if I had to do it again I'd go into AC repair and maybe take some management and business classes online.

The vast majority of people don't need college, we're just ticking the credential box on applications for entry level jobs. Actual experience is far more valuable than the credential itself. I am convinced the government would be better off subsidizing entry level salaries than they would higher education degree fields which aren't necessary for the field. (Obviously, that doesnt include hard sciences and engineering and the like).

College degree used to be a way to weed out rifraf in a selection process, now its a sacred right and pretty much just means you took out debt to party for a few years.

You are more likely to make more with a degree because the entry level job you took had HR gatekeepers preventing people just as qualified as you from being considered at all.

The aggie ring is more valuable than the diploma though.

fc2112 said:

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If you are in a career where someone without a college degree could succeed, you are in a pretty horrible career.

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If you aren't trolling -- a very ignorant take.

The only part of college that's a scam is the basics/core classes; you know, English comp, history, science, algebra, etc. One just had 13 years of basics and you don't need to rehash those classes again. Why not get a bachelor degree in two years by skipping basics and hitting the ground with just the classes required for your degree?

Since most employers, outside of the trades, require a degree, it's not completely a scam.

saw em off said:

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The only part of college that's a scam is the basics/core classes; you know, English comp, history, science, algebra, etc. One just had 13 years of basics and you don't need to rehash those classes again. Why not get a bachelor degree in two years by skipping basics and hitting the ground with just the classes required for your degree?

Since most employers, outside of the trades, require a degree, it's not completely a scam.

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A huge chunk of the "core curriculum" required for a degree at most universities is a work program for unpopular departments filled with leftist professors. I will say that as somebody who reviews reports written by others for a big chunk of my time now, a technical writing class should be absolutely mandatory for just about any degree. Nobody is learning how to write reports in high school english classes. The core history, poli sci, etc. classes are just a tool to keep those departments alive.

Not easy to start a business. This isn't 1800AD when everyone had to.
The world has changed.

fc2112 said:

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If you are in a career where someone without a college degree could succeed, you are in a pretty horrible career.

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If you replaced "someone" with "everyone" you would be right.

Serious Lee said:

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without going into the intracacies of the the higher education system and the corporations that sponsor them, what if i told you i had a high school friend that went to a semesters worth of mgmt 209 class with me, took what he learned from keith swim, dr. jennings and the like, and parlayed that into a successful marketing career, all without ever having a course hour to his name?

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Did he ride his bike through the classroom and steal a test?

fc2112 said:

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If you are in a career where someone without a college degree could succeed, you are in a pretty horrible career.

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Interesting opinion.

My role could def. be done successfully by someone without a college degree, as it's largely experience based. Now, whether or not a construction company would hire an estimator without a degree to begin with.. who knows, but it's certainly not a legal requirement, like a lawyer/doctor, or an engineer signing off on drawings.

9 years in at this company and I love my career (which I started fresh in mid 30s moving from O&G). I have very low stress, have zero issues with boss/coworkers, work about 35 hours a week (including WFH on Friday) and I get paid what I would think is good money... don't want to give specifics, but let's just say, I hope to be at the $200k mark in the not so distant future.

I also get lots of 'appreciation' from my subcontractors, from lunches/dinners, a healthy amount of annual xmas gifts, a not uncommon occurrence of work hooky days including trips to vegas, offshore fishing, golf, sporting events, and even flown by private jet a handful of times.

Not exactly horrible in my opinion.

UTExan said:

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They performed like their lives depended on it and it really does.

In the IT field, at least at my company, certifications are more valued than college degrees. Much of the time, nobody cares at all where you went to college or even *if* you went to college.

Teslag said:

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fc2112 said:

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If you are in a career where someone without a college degree could succeed, you are in a pretty horrible career.

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The most successful person in my high school class went to HVAC school instead of college. He now owns multiple business locations in 3 cities and employees 200 technicians.

The guy has more money than he knows what to do with.

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For every one of him, though, there's 10 others who did the same and failed because they may be great HVAC techs but couldn't understand the business aspect. Construction and the trades are the easiest industries to get in and out of.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Teslag said:

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fc2112 said:

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If you are in a career where someone without a college degree could succeed, you are in a pretty horrible career.

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The most successful person in my high school class went to HVAC school instead of college. He now owns multiple business locations in 3 cities and employees 200 technicians.

The guy has more money than he knows what to do with.

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For every one of him, though, there's 10 others who did the same and failed because they may be great HVAC techs but couldn't understand the business aspect. Construction and the trades are the easiest industries to get in and out of.

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but what's wrong with just being a great HVAC tech?

My kids school district now has a CTE school for 11/12th graders offering a dozen great career paths, many of which don't require typical 4 year college and many put them straight into the workforce with certifications when they are done, and without a penny of debt to boot.


Aviation, nursing, EMT, building controls, networking/cyber security, hvac, advanced robotics, plumbing, culinary/hospitality, electrician.

They also have architecture and future educator which just gives them college credit to continue after high school at a typical college.

Great career potential in these paths with solid incomes, and the entrepreneurial ones will rise and be business owners and make more than most people on here.

Your old school mentality of 'you must have a college degree to amount to anything', is… well, old school thinking. Welcome to 2024.
I'd be proud of my kids if they chose one of these paths.

Helps that my wife is the counselor there, so they'll be very informed of their options. If my kids aren't doing engineering, construction management, accounting/finance, some sort of pre med, or shooting to be a lawyer, I don't think I'll be suggesting 4 year college.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Teslag said:

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fc2112 said:

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If you are in a career where someone without a college degree could succeed, you are in a pretty horrible career.

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The most successful person in my high school class went to HVAC school instead of college. He now owns multiple business locations in 3 cities and employees 200 technicians.

The guy has more money than he knows what to do with.

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For every one of him, though, there's 10 others who did the same and failed because they may be great HVAC techs but couldn't understand the business aspect. Construction and the trades are the easiest industries to get in and out of.

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The great hvac techs are still making more than many college graduates with liberal arts degrees.

The best argument that college may be a scam is the number of college educated people here making this argument:
My friend attended a college class but didn't pay for it, then was successful, so college is a scam.

I know a major school at A&M that has two leadership members that both don't have a college degree.

At the age of 50. The month of August. Do you still want to be going up in an attic to work on an AC or in February crawling under houses and fixing broken waterlines?

vin1041 said:

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At the age of 50. The month of August. Do you still want to be going up in an attic to work on an AC or in February crawling under houses and fixing broken waterlines?

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If you are 50 and still stuck doing the entry level grunt work in your line of business, you were not going to succeed with a college degree either. Those are jobs for your entry level guy with 2-3 years on the job. At 50 you should be well beyond that role with 30 years of experience.

txags92 said:

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vin1041 said:

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At the age of 50. The month of August. Do you still want to be going up in an attic to work on an AC or in February crawling under houses and fixing broken waterlines?

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If you are 50 and still stuck doing the entry level grunt work in your line of business, you were not going to succeed with a college degree either. Those are jobs for your entry level guy with 2-3 years on the job. At 50 you should be well beyond that role with 30 years of experience.

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At that point he would be in a role where some business classes and the ability to communicate better than your average entry level tradesman would help you do a better job.