Gaming computer for my kids

3,715 Views | 114 Replies | Last: 2 days ago by FatZilla
FatZilla
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62strat said:

also, do all these components have like a serial number to know if you're looking at the same item?

I'm having trouble deciphering all the abbreviations and numbers and specs to know if I'm looking at the same thing on two different websites.

For example, I don't think pcpartpicker has that GPU that is linked above, the RX580.


Yea, the rx580 isnt listed on the pcpartpicker.com site for most new vendors. The Amazon link i posted is one of those. Basically the specs are given to 3rd party companies to create and sell their own designed gfx cards as long as they meet the tech specs. Whatever budget you can spare after grabbing everything other than gfx card should go towards one. If you have a $ figure in mind, we can help pick out the best card for the budget. The 580 recommendation was just because the build had that old 1650 in it.

Wifi on a mobo is a last resort for gaming if you don't have a hardwire ethernet connection. Even then, i recommend a powerline ethernet kit to create a wired connection over wifi for gaming. You can also buy cheap wifi usb dongles that can give a pc wifi. Its really not worth it to spend a large premium on the mobo just for integrated wifi.
62strat
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AtticusMatlock said:

Wireless built in is nice to have but if you have the ability to hardwire that would be ideal. It isn't a gamebreaker either way especially for games your kids would be playing. If you get a good deal on a motherboard you can get a cheap wireless adapter.
good to know.. so what am I looking at for hardwired, this is another component I assume?
Do I need to be concerned with the specs on this?

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/wired-network-card/#X=0,3732&sort=price&c0=di_pcie.x1
AtticusMatlock
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I put together a bunch of parts list and its going to be difficult to improve much more than this on that price point.

You could go used on a GPU.

https://www.microcenter.com/site/content/custom-pc-builder.aspx?load=2d13615c-f4ce-4b48-892a-1381a405c85e

Unfortunately the inflation with computer parts (and everything else) is pricing out a lot of people. That RX6600 is basically a PS5-level GPU. There's way more value to console gaming right now.
AtticusMatlock
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You do not need a network card. Every modern motherboard has an ethernet port built in.
FatZilla
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AtticusMatlock said:

I put together a bunch of parts list and its going to be difficult to improve much more than this on that price point.

You could go used on a GPU.

https://www.microcenter.com/site/content/custom-pc-builder.aspx?load=2d13615c-f4ce-4b48-892a-1381a405c85e

Unfortunately the inflation with computer parts (and everything else) is pricing out a lot of people. That RX6600 is basically a PS5-level GPU. There's way more value to console gaming right now.


Pricing out the cpu with better ram and a lower, non wifi board saves like 25 or so off the microcenter deal. The hyper 212 is a fantastic cooler for its price and i would grab it from microcenter no matter what for the build. The 1tb drive from microcenter is also a good deal but a gen 4 drive can be had for the same price (https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Plus-PCIe-NAND-5000MB/dp/B0B25NXWC7/?th=1). The power supply at microcenter is also a downgrade for more money that the partpicker one. A mix and match of both microcenter and online will be the best.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/KrB7kJ

Lots of cases on sale at newegg like below, i wouldnt use part picker for a case tbh, its inventory is not great on keeping up with stock.
https://www.newegg.com/black-raidmax-meshian-atx-mid-tower/p/2AM-001S-000F2?Item=9SIBNFDJXA0326



AtticusMatlock
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I like that build but the power supply is one thing I wouldn't go with an off-brand on. I would stick to Corsair, MSI, Seasonic, etc. I picked the Corsair due to known reliability. The Bronze/Silver/Gold certifications aren't a marker of quality, just an industry gimmick thing for efficiency which doesn't mean a lot.

A cheap power supply from an off-brand can fry all of your components.
FatZilla
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AtticusMatlock said:

I like that build but the power supply is one thing I wouldn't go with an off-brand on. I would stick to Corsair, MSI, Seasonic, etc. I picked the Corsair due to known reliability. The Bronze/Silver/Gold certifications aren't a marker of quality, just an industry gimmick thing for efficiency which doesn't mean a lot.

A cheap power supply from an off-brand can fry all of your components.


Its actually got quite the good review score and is a known brand, just not as big as Corsair or EVGA for example.
Apevia ATX-GX650W Galaxy 650W 80+ Gold Certified Active PFC ATX Semi-Modular Gaming Power Supply https://a.co/d/gqB6NLp

And its in the clearresult database for passing the 80+ certification
https://www.clearesult.com/80plus/sites/80plus/files/manufacturer-certificate/apevia-corp-galaxy650w-641.pdf

https://www.clearesult.com/80plus/manufacturers/Apevia-Corp
AtticusMatlock
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80+ is an industry gimmick standard. It's meaningless marketing. GamersNexus did a big video on it a few years ago.

Yes, it's efficient. Just like almost every other power supply. But when it comes to making sure the parts inside don't wear out and fry in a year or two, would stick with a reputable brand. Apevia isn't known for making good power supplies. Cheaper power supplies are cheap because they use cheaper components. If looking for value I would always go with a major brand when it comes to PSU.
FatZilla
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Few other options then from better know brands.

Thermaltake Smart BX3 650W 80Plus Bronze ATX 3.1 Standard Power Supply; Non-Modular; PS-SPD-0650NNFABU-3; 5 Year Warranty https://a.co/d/aBSlmPh

MSI MAG A650BE Gaming Power Supply - 80 Plus Bronze Certified 650W - Semi-Modular - Low Noise ATX PSU https://a.co/d/8pkxZQc
woodyhayes
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How about a good game of catch, or play horse with basketball, or ride their bikes if they have them. Play outside ! ( except on rainy days )
Green2Maroon
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https://www.tomshardware.com/best-picks/best-pc-builds-gaming

I used one of their recommended builds to build my last computer in 2017. I got 7 years out of it and finally needed a new one with the end of Windows 10. My processor was too old to run Windows 11.
62strat
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woodyhayes said:

How about a good game of catch, or play horse with basketball, or ride their bikes if they have them. Play outside ! ( except on rainy days )
You have no idea what my kids are involved in.

FWIW they are both in traveling baseball clubs and one in basketball as well. Oh yeh ones also in after school robotics and coding and the other in after school cooking.

But whatever makes you feel good, internet stranger.
Jugstore Cowboy
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Kids need to learn how to build things with their hands, not in some virtual reality.

Get them some of those stupid connector stick kits we got as kids and looked at like 2 or 3 times before deciding our imaginations had been exhausted.
austinAG90
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Buy them a BB Gun.
FatZilla
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Green2Maroon said:

https://www.tomshardware.com/best-picks/best-pc-builds-gaming

I used one of their recommended builds to build my last computer in 2017. I got 7 years out of it and finally needed a new one with the end of Windows 10. My processor was too old to run Windows 11.
First build and they have lost all credibility. An overpriced 4 core i3 and an intel arc gpu? Complete garbage. Outside of a pure AV1 encoding/decoding device, arc is trash compared to both AMD and Nvidia. The puny RX580 from 2021 trounces the A380 and is $30 less NIB.

CPU
Intel Core i3-14100F
$124

GPU
Intel Arc A380
$109

https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Arc-A380-vs-AMD-RX-580/m1795939vs3923

Green2Maroon
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Their $800 build is a lot more convincing. They recommend a solid i5 processor and a 4060 at this price.
62strat
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the more I look into this stuff, the more I'm getting confused.. Now I see some cpus have integrated graphics?? Will that be sufficient for minecraft?

like this Intel Core i5-12600K
i512600k

Can I spend a bit more on the cpu and not worry about getting a GPU?


62strat
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Also, when do I know if I need a cpu fan? As I'm swapping out cpus on pcpartpicker, sometimes it tells me the cpu doesn't have a fan, so I need to add one.

Do not all cpus come with a fan?
AtticusMatlock
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The integrated graphics in the processors, especially Intel, aren't going to be good for most games. It's more for productivity stuff.

And for your purposes, if you can get a CPU with a fan included it's a plus. Most Intel don't anymore. A lot of AMDs do. AMD CPUs come with excellent cooling fans and eliminates the need for an extra cooler.
AtticusMatlock
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AMD has some processors with better integrated graphics. These are designed for budget builds and may be a good solution. The great thing about PCs is at some point you can upgrade to a discrete graphics card down the line.

I'm about to post a big primer on CPUs and am working on a motherboard one next.
62strat
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AtticusMatlock said:

. The great thing about PCs is at some point you can upgrade to a discrete graphics card down the line.

I'm about to post a big primer on CPUs and am working on a motherboard one next.
this is kind of what I'm thinking.
Bday is october, and I get within this budget I have w/o a graphics card.

Then xmas and the other kids bday in jan, we can add in a GPU. So I can get maybe a better cpu now.

AtticusMatlock
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Processor Primer (very basic)

Processors (two brands): Intel and AMD

Intel

Intel names their processors by generation and it can get confusing.

They are currently in the "14th Gen" of their core line. These CPUs are named like "i#-14####". From lower core count/performance to highest: i3 - i5 - i7 - i9

i3 is more for general tasks. i5 has more cores and is suitable if not quite good for most gaming. i7 has even more cores and is more of a productivity chip (video/photo editing). i9 is enthusiast class.
So if you see a CPU called "i5-12400", you're looking at a 12th Generation processor in the i5 (good for most people) range. An i3 is capable of running lower-demanding games like Minecraft, Roblox, etc. Right now you can get an i5 12th Gen for a similar price point so not really a debate IMO.

On some CPUs, Intel adds a letter to the end of the name. The "K" means the chip is good stock and is capable of overclocking. The chips without the K still meet standard but are not capable of being overclocked. "KF" processors can be overclocked and offer good performance but don't have integrated graphics. They are generally cheaper but keep in mind to use these at all you'll need a discrete graphics card for anything to display (which any gaming PC will have anyway).

The 13th and 14th Gen Intel chips have had reliability issues discovered within the last several months. Most recommendations now are to stay away from those until Intel works out a fix. The 12th Gen series still provides great price/performance and can be available in value bundles.


AMD

The AMD "Ryzen" series of chips is somewhat similarly named but is just as complicated in a different way.

Let's take the "Ryzen 5 7600X."

Similar to Intel, the first number is the performance level. It goes 3, 5, 7, 9. Sound familiar? The "5" level is generally considered good value for gaming. The "7" in our example represents the generation. The number following means the number of cores (6 in this case) and the "X" means it is higher stock and capable of overclocking. Just like with Intel, for a budget built the overclocking stuff is unnecessary.

AMD also makes chips with better integrated graphics (called APUs). These will have a "G" at the end of their name. Using these may save some money in that you wouldn't buy a separate graphics card but the performance of the graphics is more in line with what you would get in a laptop. This is still better than other chips' integrated graphics.

What you should be looking for in a CPU for a budget PC gaming build is probably an i5 from the 12 series or a Ryzen 5 from 5th.

Each brand and sometimes generation of chips will have their own motherboard compatibility. Will make a post about motherboards and RAM here in a minute.
AtticusMatlock
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That sounds like a plan.

If you go this route make sure to plan ahead for the power supply. The GPU is the most power-hungry part you'll have so make sure to give yourself room so you don't have to upgrade that part in the future.
62strat
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Yeh I was keeping the same 650w psu even if I don't get a gpu now.
AtticusMatlock
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MOTHERBOARDS (God help us all).

Motherboards link all the components together and help them talk to each other.

A few key things:
Motherboards come in different sizes. ATX is the standard size, but you may see MicroATX, ITX, etc. ATX boards will have several expansion slots. MicroATX will only have one big slot for graphics cards. For a budget build I'm not sure you'd need more than one big expansion slot but MicroATX boards aren't necessarily less expensive.

M.2 slots are slots for a certain type of storage drive. Like other things, there are generations but they are compatibile. If you get a good deal on a 4th gen M.2 SSD you can plug it into a motherboard with a 3rd gen slot but you'll get 3rd gen peformance. Not every motherboard will have an M.2 slot. If your motherboard doesn't have an m.2 slot then don't buy an m.2 drive.

A "chipset" is the controller on the motherboard that communicates with the CPU and other components. The CPU has to be compatible with the chipset in order to function. This is something covered for you with the compatibility checkers.

RAM Type - DDR4 is the "older" standard but is still great for gaming and will be for a long time. When you look at motherboards consider RAM compatibility and cost. You should be looking at DDR4 IMO. Way less expensive.

INTEL
Each generation of Intel CPUs have their own socket designs. The socket is what the CPU slides into and sits in on the motherboard. Compatibility checkers will help get the right socket. This is designated by "LGA ####."
You'll notice each Intel motherboard starts with a letter.

The "Z" series is the higher end, capable of overclocking, and has the most ability to run a bunch of fast hardware all at once. Generally these aren't great value for budget builds unless they come in a bundle for a big discount.

The "B" series is midrange for Intel. They don't overclock. They have ample lanes to run hardware fast and are usually the better value proposition
.
The "H" series is the budget line. It limits RAM and USB speed as well as has the fewest "lanes" for traffic along the board. Generally these get put in ultra-budget builds.

The number after the letter is the generation of chipset and don't worry about it unless you don't use a compatibility checker.

AMD

Similarly, there are different motherboards for different CPUs. Their sockets are designated by "AM-". AM5 is the current gen socket for "7---" series and up. AM5 requires DDR5 RAM which is more expensive.

Similar to Intel, the letters designate capability.

"X" is their higher end, "B" is their midrange, and "A" is their lower end. The number after designates chipset and don't worry about it as long as you are using compatibility checker.

====================

Each motherboard manufacturer puts their own branding all over everything but what you want to look for are the m.2 compatibility (unless you want to go SATA which may be cheaper), RAM speed compatibility, and overall quality. I can tell you ASUS has been under a lot of criticism for their motherboard quality over the last few years along with their return/repair customer service so may want to steer clear.
AtticusMatlock
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RAM
RAM is the rapidly-accessible memory available to the CPU while it performs calculations.

There are now two RAM types in production: DDR4 and DDR5. DDR5 is "faster" in some ways, newer, and more expensive (although prices have come down a lot over the last year).

For a budget build, DDR4 is still the way to go. How much do you need? 16 GB is more than enough for the type of gaming done by 8-9 year olds.

RAM speed is a thing, but for budget builds the key is to make sure not to overspend on RAM that is too fast for your motherboard to even handle. RAM speed is designated by "DDR4-####." This is usually the fastest the RAM is rated for if overclocked by the motherboard. Most motherboards are going to run DDR4 RAM at a lower speed (this is easily changed in the BIOS of mid-level motherboards).

RAM latency is something hardcore gamers talk about but in reality it has almost no bearing for your purposes so don't worry about it.

Honestly, for your purposes RAM just isn't a big thing to worry about other than compatibility and cost.
FatZilla
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I put together a build for my buddy using a 5600g, which is very cheap and is equivalent to a Nvidia 1030 desktop card. That example would be able to play Minecraft and similar with probably medium to high graphics at 1080p without issue.

Something like this, just grab a case that includes fans and is on sale with good reviews from newegg/amazon/microcenter etc when you are ready to order since they change all the time. Then grab a gfx card in future. The only main downside is this is a pcie gen 3 cpu. The 8600g would be a step up in price and to pcie gen 4 for longevity.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/zd2fJy
AtticusMatlock
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The only thing I would make sure you know if you go the CPU-only route is to make sure to set expectations and not to expect solid gaming performance until you get the graphics card. It's going to be a functional computer and will probably be able to handle very basic games like Minecraft but not a lot else. Some other games they may want to play (like Fortnight) won't be very playable. When you do end up getting a discrete card it will make a tremendous difference.

There should be some parts going on sale for the holiday.

There are some great websites for GPU value comparison.

https://www.zachstechturf.com/gpucomparisons

If I were you I'd keep up with PC Builder on Youtube (nonstop videos about best value gaming parts).

Also when you are ready to build make sure to watch several "How to build a PC" videos that will walk you through the steps so nothing gets broken. Jayztwocents and Linus Tech Tips have great videos for that.
Uncle Howdy
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S
AtticusMatlock said:

Also when you are ready to build make sure to watch several "How to build a PC" videos that will walk you through the steps so nothing gets broken. Jayztwocents and Linus Tech Tips have great videos for that.
I'll second this. I watched a lot of videos the week before I built mine. The only frustrating thing for me was plugging things into the motherboard, but I have fairly big hands. PC Centric is another good YouTube channel for build videos
Green2Maroon
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AG
I would also point out that the graphics card is generally more important than the CPU for gaming.
AtticusMatlock
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FatZilla said:

I put together a build for my buddy using a 5600g, which is very cheap and is equivalent to a Nvidia 1030 desktop card. That example would be able to play Minecraft and similar with probably medium to high graphics at 1080p without issue.

Something like this, just grab a case that includes fans and is on sale with good reviews from newegg/amazon/microcenter etc when you are ready to order since they change all the time. Then grab a gfx card in future. The only main downside is this is a pcie gen 3 cpu. The 8600g would be a step up in price and to pcie gen 4 for longevity.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/zd2fJy
Haha I was literally putting together this build. I think this is good value. Better graphics than the 12th Gen Intel i5.

I've had that same motherboard on my prior computer and it worked great with no problems.

Would pull better performance with a 5700G if can find one for a few more dollars.

AtticusMatlock
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Green2Maroon said:

I would also point out that the graphics card is generally more important than the CPU for gaming.
Yep. Waaaaay more important. The CPU just has to be fast enough to keep up with the GPU. For the budget purposes, a graphics card in the budget range isn't usually going to be bottlenecked too much but having a faster CPU isn't going to help too much if the graphics card isn't modern or if there isn't one at all.
62strat
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AG
FatZilla said:

I put together a build for my buddy using a 5600g, which is very cheap and is equivalent to a Nvidia 1030 desktop card. That example would be able to play Minecraft and similar with probably medium to high graphics at 1080p without issue.

Something like this, just grab a case that includes fans and is on sale with good reviews from newegg/amazon/microcenter etc when you are ready to order since they change all the time. Then grab a gfx card in future. The only main downside is this is a pcie gen 3 cpu. The 8600g would be a step up in price and to pcie gen 4 for longevity.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/zd2fJy
i see this error a handful of times, like on your link


"If the motherboard is using an older BIOS version, updating the BIOS will be necessary to support the CPU."

is that an issue?
62strat
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AG
tons of help on cpu and mobos.

could you give me a quick run down on fans? for a 9 and 10 year old this seems to be important.

The microcenter guy was telling me the old molex fans can't have variable speeds and colors, they are fixed.


Can I get a case in my range that allows full control over fan speed (not as important?) and fan colors (the kids wil l want this)

how do I know if included case fans are molex or 4 pin? And then I have to know the mobo has 4 pin??
AtticusMatlock
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Definitely get a case that has built-in fans. Some cases have addressable fan colors but some don't. If I'm not mistaken the Montech cases (usually a good value) do, but may want to double check.

Fan speed is handled by the motherboard in most situations. Can set range in BIOS.
 
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