BQCadet said:

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hsjnlssmith89 said:

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BQCadet said:

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txags92 said:

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I have to honestly say that I don't know why any artist who is selling their work for a living sees value in doing this. Take any issue where there is a sizeable group supporting both sides, and where it is contentious enough that you think anybody is likely to give a rat's a** what you have to say about it. If you voice your opinion forcefully and publicly on that issue, what do you stand to gain? You know you are going to piss off a big chunk of the people that disagree with you...and the people that care what you say and already agree with you, what more can they do for you if they are already buying your stuff? On any issue that contentious, nobody is changing their minds because some random country music artist speaks their mind about it. So what have you really gained other than losing a chunk of your paying fans?

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It's easy. Because they had a platform and used it. Money isn't everything to some people.

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If Natalie had walked away without anger and bitterness in her heart, then I would say you have a good point. But she did not and a year later her music was angry, prideful and unapologetic. And even now she is still angry even though she decided to bite the hand that fed them. I'm guessing she is angry because she lost a huge opportunity for greater fame, a larger platform and greater wealth but instead will be / has been forgotten. A tragedy for sure.

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Of course she is unapologetic. That's because she isn't sorry for what she said. She was angry because she was receiving death threats for what she said. And "I'm not ready to make nice" was about her giving the middle finger to those trying to intimidate her. And maybe she doesn't think it's a tragedy. Again, some people care about more than money and fame.

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BS. She was angry because she suffered a very significant backlash from her fans and the CM industry which is run by fans of CM. The vast majority of this block spoke with their wallets and air time. She did not like that and was angry that she and her band mates had to suffer consequences. Yes, the middle finger was noticed by all the fans. Thanks for helping me make my point.

Charpie said:

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Which is even funnier...Merle Haggard was a big ol' lib

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Have you heard Okie from Muskogee?

MGS said:

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Charpie said:

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Which is even funnier...Merle Haggard was a big ol' lib

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Have you heard Okie from Muskogee?

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Have you ever eaten Rainbow Stew?

Or drank free Bubble Up?

Yes I have. You know its possible to be liberal and support our country.

BTW, the whole reason he recorded that song was he knew what the folks in country music would react to. So he exploited it to his benefit..like Toby Keith did when he recorded those patriotic songs.

txags92 said:

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I have to honestly say that I don't know why any artist who is selling their work for a living sees value in doing this. Take any issue where there is a sizeable group supporting both sides, and where it is contentious enough that you think anybody is likely to give a rat's a** what you have to say about it. If you voice your opinion forcefully and publicly on that issue, what do you stand to gain? You know you are going to piss off a big chunk of the people that disagree with you...and the people that care what you say and already agree with you, what more can they do for you if they are already buying your stuff? On any issue that contentious, nobody is changing their minds because some random country music artist speaks their mind about it. So what have you really gained other than losing a chunk of your paying fans?

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Yeah, music has never been a force for social change. This is a really narrow and naive mindset.

And I find it comical there are so many snowflakes on the right on this thread.

Oh, and I don't listen to much country other than the old guys, so I'm not DC fan, but how does this 'controversy' look now with our ability to look through the lens of history and now know what an absolute CF going into Iraq was....i.e. she was right?

MGS said:

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Charpie said:

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Which is even funnier...Merle Haggard was a big ol' lib

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Have you heard Okie from Muskogee?

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Yes, and he's on record wishing he hadn't written the song...lol


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/music/artists/merle-haggard-sometimes-i-wish-i-hadnt-written-okie-from-muskoge/

Macarthur said:

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txags92 said:

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I have to honestly say that I don't know why any artist who is selling their work for a living sees value in doing this. Take any issue where there is a sizeable group supporting both sides, and where it is contentious enough that you think anybody is likely to give a rat's a** what you have to say about it. If you voice your opinion forcefully and publicly on that issue, what do you stand to gain? You know you are going to piss off a big chunk of the people that disagree with you...and the people that care what you say and already agree with you, what more can they do for you if they are already buying your stuff? On any issue that contentious, nobody is changing their minds because some random country music artist speaks their mind about it. So what have you really gained other than losing a chunk of your paying fans?

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Yeah, music has never been a force for social change. This is a really narrow and naive mindset.

And I find it comical there are so many snowflakes on the right on this thread.

Oh, and I don't listen to much country other than the old guys, so I'm not DC fan, but how does this 'controversy' look now with our ability to look through the lens of history and now know what an absolute CF going into Iraq was....i.e. she was right?

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Music has...but standing on a stage in a foreign country bad-mouthing somebody to a group of fans who have no role in electing him...no, that doesn't create social change. It just wrecks your career if you piss off your core audience in the process. And Iraq ended just like Vietnam...democrat leaders snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I don't in any way think she was "right". She was entitled to her opinion...but wasn't wise to put it out there the way she did. If she had given a thoughtful interview to a magazine or TV show and stated how and why she disagreed with the president, I don't think anybody would have cared a lick about it.

txags92 said:

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Macarthur said:

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txags92 said:

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I have to honestly say that I don't know why any artist who is selling their work for a living sees value in doing this. Take any issue where there is a sizeable group supporting both sides, and where it is contentious enough that you think anybody is likely to give a rat's a** what you have to say about it. If you voice your opinion forcefully and publicly on that issue, what do you stand to gain? You know you are going to piss off a big chunk of the people that disagree with you...and the people that care what you say and already agree with you, what more can they do for you if they are already buying your stuff? On any issue that contentious, nobody is changing their minds because some random country music artist speaks their mind about it. So what have you really gained other than losing a chunk of your paying fans?

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Yeah, music has never been a force for social change. This is a really narrow and naive mindset.

And I find it comical there are so many snowflakes on the right on this thread.

Oh, and I don't listen to much country other than the old guys, so I'm not DC fan, but how does this 'controversy' look now with our ability to look through the lens of history and now know what an absolute CF going into Iraq was....i.e. she was right?

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Music has...but standing on a stage in a foreign country bad-mouthing somebody to a group of fans who have no role in electing him...no, that doesn't create social change. It just wrecks your career if you piss off your core audience in the process. And Iraq ended just like Vietnam...democrat leaders snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I don't in any way think she was "right". She was entitled to her opinion...but wasn't wise to put it out there the way she did. If she had given a thoughtful interview to a magazine or TV show and stated how and why she disagreed with the president, I don't think anybody would have cared a lick about it.

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Lol. It's the D's fault for Iraq. That's a good one.

what a joke.

Going in? Yeah, that was all on Bush...with a strong assist from terrible intelligence filtered through Cheney...

Pulling out too early when we had an improving situation and the makings of a stable government, leaving Iran to mop up was all on the dems. And it allowed ISIS to grow and take over what had been fertile ground for democracy to take hold.

txags92 said:

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Going in? Yeah, that was all on Bush...with a strong assist from terrible intelligence filtered through Cheney...

Pulling out too early when we had an improving situation and the makings of a stable government, leaving Iran to mop up was all on the dems. And it allowed ISIS to grow and take over what had been fertile ground for democracy to take hold.

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No doubt BHO had some big foreign policy failures but the context of this discussion is not having that hindsight.

She complained about bush taking us in a direction we shouldn't have gone. In that respect, she was 100% right. You can disagree w her messaging but the root of the issue she was correct.

The issue at the time wasn't about being right or wrong. The issue became that she basically pissed off a huge section of their fan base by doing it the way she did it. She inadvertently took a crap on a number of people who were in the Venn diagram where record and ticket purchasers overlapped with conservatives who supported George W. Bush. It turned out that subset was larger then she thought. Misjudgment.

Musical acts of the 1960s didn't change the opinions of their bases because their fan bases were already against the Vietnam war. What they did was bring outsiders over to their way of thinking with their music. That is not what happened to the Dixie Chicks.

Burdizzo said:

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The issue at the time wasn't about being right or wrong. The issue became that she basically pissed off a huge section of their fan base by doing it the way she did it. She inadvertently took a crap on a number of people who were in the Venn diagram where record and ticket purchasers overlapped with conservatives who supported George W. Bush. It turned out that subset was larger then she thought. Misjudgment.

Musical acts of the 1960s didn't change the opinions of their bases because their fan bases were already against the Vietnam war. What they did was bring outsiders over to their way of thinking with their music. That is not what happened to the Dixie Chicks.

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I guess you're right about 'at the time'. The issue of the thread is do we still hate them?

My point is that she, in a sense, was right. Just like those that were against Vietnam have been proven right (not the ones that railed against soliders...just anti-Vietnam war, in general).

Again, you can hate how she handled it and how it affected her fans, which is pretty clear it was detrimental.

I'm a conservative, but mainly I'm from Lubbock which is why I still don't like her. She may or may not have been correct about what she said, but the time and place that she said it was wrong, and pissed a lot of folks off. Including a lot of folks in her very conservative CM loving hometown.

She was as dumb as a box of rocks...

She was on 60 minutes or some prime time show, and the host ask her what it was like to be a millionaire. She laughed out loud and said O, I am not millionaire, we have not made that much money.

The host lost it, and the show basically died right there. The host was like how are you not a millionaire you have sold millions of records, shows, etc... Natalie was like a deer in headlights the rest of the show.

Literally 30 days later, I think it was Sony came out with a new 25 million dollar contract for them.

You don't like America, fix it, or leave. Don't bad mouth it or the office of the president on foreign soil.

And Toby Keith made sure nobody forgot!

Toby Keith saw $$$ in seizing upon them for his benefit.

And she was right. They signed an awful contract for their first 2 albums. Then when they got even more famous, Sony went back and gave them a much better one.

Woody2006 said:

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All 3 Dixie Chicks at once, or Shania Twain when they were all in their primes?

It's gotta be Shania by a mile, right?

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Ag 11 said:

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Woody2006 said:

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All 3 Dixie Chicks at once, or Shania Twain when they were all in their primes?

It's gotta be Shania by a mile, right?

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Shania Twain even now. Natalie alone eliminates the DC, despite the hotness of the other two.

txags92 said:

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Going in? Yeah, that was all on Bush...with a strong assist from terrible intelligence filtered through Cheney...

Pulling out too early when we had an improving situation and the makings of a stable government, leaving Iran to mop up was all on the dems. And it allowed ISIS to grow and take over what had been fertile ground for democracy to take hold.

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Nope. Revisionist history. Try again. Look into the agreement that the United States signed to pull all troops out of Iraq by a certain date. Now look who wrote it and who signed it. Come back when you are done and take your L.

oldschool87 said:

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She was as dumb as a box of rocks...

She was on 60 minutes or some prime time show, and the host ask her what it was like to be a millionaire. She laughed out loud and said O, I am not millionaire, we have not made that much money.

The host lost it, and the show basically died right there. The host was like how are you not a millionaire you have sold millions of records, shows, etc... Natalie was like a deer in headlights the rest of the show.

Literally 30 days later, I think it was Sony came out with a new 25 million dollar contract for them.

You don't like America, fix it, or leave. Don't bad mouth it or the office of the president on foreign soil.

And Toby Keith made sure nobody forgot!

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Dumbest statement that I hear all the time. Those aren't my only two options and I'll bad mouth a stupid President anywhere I want. There is no law against it.

BQCadet said:

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oldschool87 said:

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She was as dumb as a box of rocks...

She was on 60 minutes or some prime time show, and the host ask her what it was like to be a millionaire. She laughed out loud and said O, I am not millionaire, we have not made that much money.

The host lost it, and the show basically died right there. The host was like how are you not a millionaire you have sold millions of records, shows, etc... Natalie was like a deer in headlights the rest of the show.

Literally 30 days later, I think it was Sony came out with a new 25 million dollar contract for them.

You don't like America, fix it, or leave. Don't bad mouth it or the office of the president on foreign soil.

And Toby Keith made sure nobody forgot!

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Dumbest statement that I hear all the time. Those aren't my only two options and I'll bad mouth a stupid President anywhere I want. There is no law against it.

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"No law against it" doesn't make it right, or a good idea.

But you do you, big boy.

BQCadet said:

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oldschool87 said:

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She was as dumb as a box of rocks...

She was on 60 minutes or some prime time show, and the host ask her what it was like to be a millionaire. She laughed out loud and said O, I am not millionaire, we have not made that much money.

The host lost it, and the show basically died right there. The host was like how are you not a millionaire you have sold millions of records, shows, etc... Natalie was like a deer in headlights the rest of the show.

Literally 30 days later, I think it was Sony came out with a new 25 million dollar contract for them.

You don't like America, fix it, or leave. Don't bad mouth it or the office of the president on foreign soil.

And Toby Keith made sure nobody forgot!

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Dumbest statement that I hear all the time. Those aren't my only two options and I'll bad mouth a stupid President anywhere I want. There is no law against it.

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Trump got elected doing this exact thing.

BQCadet said:

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Dumbest statement that I hear all the time. Those aren't my only two options and I'll bad mouth a stupid President anywhere I want. There is no law against it.

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Whatever you say, Natalie

BQCadet said:

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oldschool87 said:

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She was as dumb as a box of rocks...

She was on 60 minutes or some prime time show, and the host ask her what it was like to be a millionaire. She laughed out loud and said O, I am not millionaire, we have not made that much money.

The host lost it, and the show basically died right there. The host was like how are you not a millionaire you have sold millions of records, shows, etc... Natalie was like a deer in headlights the rest of the show.

Literally 30 days later, I think it was Sony came out with a new 25 million dollar contract for them.

You don't like America, fix it, or leave. Don't bad mouth it or the office of the president on foreign soil.

And Toby Keith made sure nobody forgot!

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Dumbest statement that I hear all the time. Those aren't my only two options and I'll bad mouth a stupid President anywhere I want. There is no law against it.

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Followed closely by "There is no law against it.". No one argues that she didn't have the right to say what she said or that there should be a law against saying something like that. That would be dumb! It was about respecting your fan base enough to know when you should maybe just shut up and sing. And if you decide you can't, then knowing there may be consequences and not getting all pissy about it.

Dixie Chick issue boils down to the old saying, "Everybody has a boss."

When you're in entertainment, your boss is in the form of countless numbers of fans. As with any job you have to make compromises on doing what you want and making your boss happy. Piss off your boss enough times or piss off too many customers, you're screwed.

Macarthur said:

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BQCadet said:

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oldschool87 said:

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She was as dumb as a box of rocks...

She was on 60 minutes or some prime time show, and the host ask her what it was like to be a millionaire. She laughed out loud and said O, I am not millionaire, we have not made that much money.

The host lost it, and the show basically died right there. The host was like how are you not a millionaire you have sold millions of records, shows, etc... Natalie was like a deer in headlights the rest of the show.

Literally 30 days later, I think it was Sony came out with a new 25 million dollar contract for them.

You don't like America, fix it, or leave. Don't bad mouth it or the office of the president on foreign soil.

And Toby Keith made sure nobody forgot!

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Dumbest statement that I hear all the time. Those aren't my only two options and I'll bad mouth a stupid President anywhere I want. There is no law against it.

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Trump got elected doing this exact thing.

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Difference: Trump knew his audience.

BQCadet said:

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oldschool87 said:

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She was as dumb as a box of rocks...

She was on 60 minutes or some prime time show, and the host ask her what it was like to be a millionaire. She laughed out loud and said O, I am not millionaire, we have not made that much money.

The host lost it, and the show basically died right there. The host was like how are you not a millionaire you have sold millions of records, shows, etc... Natalie was like a deer in headlights the rest of the show.

Literally 30 days later, I think it was Sony came out with a new 25 million dollar contract for them.

You don't like America, fix it, or leave. Don't bad mouth it or the office of the president on foreign soil.

And Toby Keith made sure nobody forgot!

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Dumbest statement that I hear all the time. Those aren't my only two options and I'll bad mouth a stupid President anywhere I want. There is no law against it.

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You can gripe about the President, but not your country on foreign soil...

You say its the dumbest statement. You are correct in that fact that there is no law against it. But I would say it was a 100 million dollar mistake at a minimum. So, while it may not be against the law, it shows perfectly how all actions have consequences. Thinking the dumb statement, was what she said, not mine.

hsjnlssmith89 said:

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Macarthur said:

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BQCadet said:

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oldschool87 said:

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She was as dumb as a box of rocks...

She was on 60 minutes or some prime time show, and the host ask her what it was like to be a millionaire. She laughed out loud and said O, I am not millionaire, we have not made that much money.

The host lost it, and the show basically died right there. The host was like how are you not a millionaire you have sold millions of records, shows, etc... Natalie was like a deer in headlights the rest of the show.

Literally 30 days later, I think it was Sony came out with a new 25 million dollar contract for them.

You don't like America, fix it, or leave. Don't bad mouth it or the office of the president on foreign soil.

And Toby Keith made sure nobody forgot!

---

Dumbest statement that I hear all the time. Those aren't my only two options and I'll bad mouth a stupid President anywhere I want. There is no law against it.

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Trump got elected doing this exact thing.

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Difference: Trump knew his audience.

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Yes, he duped his audience into voting for him...I'll give him that.

Macarthur said:

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hsjnlssmith89 said:

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Macarthur said:

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BQCadet said:

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oldschool87 said:

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She was as dumb as a box of rocks...

She was on 60 minutes or some prime time show, and the host ask her what it was like to be a millionaire. She laughed out loud and said O, I am not millionaire, we have not made that much money.

The host lost it, and the show basically died right there. The host was like how are you not a millionaire you have sold millions of records, shows, etc... Natalie was like a deer in headlights the rest of the show.

Literally 30 days later, I think it was Sony came out with a new 25 million dollar contract for them.

You don't like America, fix it, or leave. Don't bad mouth it or the office of the president on foreign soil.

And Toby Keith made sure nobody forgot!

---

Dumbest statement that I hear all the time. Those aren't my only two options and I'll bad mouth a stupid President anywhere I want. There is no law against it.

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Trump got elected doing this exact thing.

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Difference: Trump knew his audience.

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Yes, he duped his audience into voting for him...I'll give him that.

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It wasn't much of an achievement. Hillary was horrible and followed what will likely be the worst president of our lifetimes.