I regularly deal with distant relatives of BombayAg for work, and this cultures loves to haggle on everything from produce to furniture to clothing. For some reason Americans turn into eastern negotiators at car dealerships, where you want to win and you want the other side to lose. I appreciate dealerships that offer a western style approach with a fair market price. Just shop the market data to ensure the no-haggle price listed is fair market value.

So ...






One price regardless of make, model, year or mileage?

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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91_Aggie said:

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Yeah, don't even walk into a dealership until you have them agree to the price you want via email.

And with all the millennials and boys who have only played videos all their lives and mommy taking care of everything for them, they are too afraid and socially inept to even want to attempt to haggle with a dealership.

So, this dealer is just going to following the trends and making money of stupid people.

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I've played video games all my life. I have negotiated on both of my cars.

But please tell me how video games make me socially inept.

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Don't get so defensive, little boy.

Trying reading AND comprehension at the same time.
I bolded some pertinent words in my statement to help you out below.

with all the millennials and boys who have only played videos all their lives and mommy taking care of everything for them

You made a weak generalization about millennials and video games, so expect to be called out on it, old man.

From what I understand from my friends and relatives that work in car sales there really isn't as much margin on non luxury cars as people think. Cars under $50k or so I'm talking. However the higher the price goes up, the more margin there is unless that particular car is in short supply/high demand/true limited editions. In fact, cars that are up close to $100k or over often carry wiggle room of $5k+.

From what I understand the big three make the best money on trucks and SUVs. The dealership may not have much of a margin on them, but the manufacturers do. Makes sense with stripped down trucks that have $50K window stickers now.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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You made a weak generalization about millennials and video games, so expect to be called out on it, old man.

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Quit being triggered.

ac04 said:

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there is absolutely $5k of wiggle room in most $50k cars.

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Absolutely.. when you see those commercials offering a silverado for $16,000 off MSRP, and the base price is around $50 to $55K, you better not be negotiating only 10 to 20% off the MSRP price

This thread needed more smug perfect negotiators who handle everything by email.

superunknown said:

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This thread needed more smug perfect negotiators who handle everything by email.

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Why would you not handle it by email? You just waste your time by going in and starting from scratch with them.

You end up playing their games, or at least giving them a chance to play their games. Keeping you there a long time so you buy into the sunk-cost fallacy of not wanting to walk away because they kept you there for several hours.

They love suckers/customers like that.

SeattleAgJr said:

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still not as bad as the state.

Portland has no sales tax. I can drive down there and buy a car and pay no sales tax.
But when I try to register it in WA state, they will assess me the full WA state tax on the vehicle that has to be paid to get the plates.

Bull*****

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You realize EVERY state with a sales tax is like this, right? In fact, if you purchase something online from another state and have it shipped to you and the store does not collect sales tax, the state law says you have to file that with the state and pay sales tax.

agracer said:

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SeattleAgJr said:

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still not as bad as the state.

Portland has no sales tax. I can drive down there and buy a car and pay no sales tax.
But when I try to register it in WA state, they will assess me the full WA state tax on the vehicle that has to be paid to get the plates.

Bull*****

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You realize EVERY state with a sales tax is like this, right? In fact, if you purchase something online and the store does not collect sales tax the state law says you have to file that with the state and pay sales tax.

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How timely:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/21/supreme-court-rules-that-states-can-force-online-shoppers-to-pay-sales-tax.html

Quote:

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• SCOTUS overturned a 1992 precedent barring states from requiring businesses with no "physical presence" in that state to collect sales taxes.
• The ruling is likely to lead other states to try to collect sales tax on purchases from out-of-state online businesses more aggressively.

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Help square something for me on this topic for used cars...

Have done the KBB and NADA dance for multiple vehicles of the same make/model. Different year/miles/trim levels, but generically speaking, very similar vehicles. Let's use a 2009-2013 4WD Honda Pilot as an example, but the same has held true for other makes/models I've looked at.

The KBB and NADA values are averaging $2-4K less than the list price of the dealer. Several dealers have given the "one price" dialogue, and I'm just having a hard time getting to the point of that being a good, or even decent deal.

I know Hondas have typically held their resale value very well (my last trade-in was an '08 CRV and the dealer matched the high end of the KBB/NADA values without any haggling).

I guess I'm just having a hard time accepting the fact that this model is actually selling for close to these list prices even though the most commonly industry data points to significantly lower prices...

bkag9824 said:

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Help square something for me on this topic for used cars...

Have done the KBB and NADA dance for multiple vehicles of the same make/model. Different year/miles/trim levels, but generically speaking, very similar vehicles. Let's use a 2009-2013 4WD Honda Pilot as an example, but the same has held true for other makes/models I've looked at.

The KBB and NADA values are averaging $2-4K less than the list price of the dealer. Several dealers have given the "one price" dialogue, and I'm just having a hard time getting to the point of that being a good, or even decent deal.

I know Hondas have typically held their resale value very well (my last trade-in was an '08 CRV and the dealer matched the high end of the KBB/NADA values without any haggling).

I guess I'm just having a hard time accepting the fact that this model is actually selling for close to these list prices even though the most commonly industry data points to significantly lower prices...

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If the dealership knows they can get the "list price" for the used car, then they have no incentive to give you a deal for $2K to $4K less.

So, if you think no one will really buy at their price, keep checking each week or month and keep making your lower offer. But likely, the dealer will sell it to someone at their price before they get desperate enough to sell for your lower price.

Yeah, I suppose people willing to overpay for things is one the of the pitfalls of a stupid/impatient society.

But that then begs the question as to how valid the online industry tools are. Their services are worthless if they can't get the values correct.

91_Aggie said:

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ac04 said:

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there is absolutely $5k of wiggle room in most $50k cars.

---

Absolutely.. when you see those commercials offering a silverado for $16,000 off MSRP, and the base price is around $50 to $55K, you better not be negotiating only 10 to 20% off the MSRP price

---

A lot of times those deals include factory rebates and incentives. If the manufacturer ends those rebates you won't get that sale price when they expire. You can work these to your advantage too. I bought an expedition a few years ago and they offered an $8,000 rebate if I took their 8% financing offer. So I did. And when I got the first payment due I refinanced with my credit union for 2%.

I also just bought an X3 from BMW of Dallas and they are a one price dealer. I thought their advertised price was fair. I think where they try to get people is on trade ins.

aggieforester05 said:

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From what I understand the big three make the best money on trucks and SUVs. The dealership may not have much of a margin on them, but the manufacturers do. Makes sense with stripped down trucks that have $50K window stickers now.

---

2018 Ford F150 no backseat XL starts at $27k. Supercrew cab starts at $34k.. A fully loaded 4x4 Supercrew cab XLT is ~$50k. These are Ford.com prices.

What the hell stripped down truck did you pay $50k for?

Unrelated to this thread, but have a couple questions for you regarding your line of work. Best handled off TexAgs. Mind if I drop you an email or call?

car buying is the absolute worst. I feel like there is a car buying agent market that is going completely neglected.

Some banks and retailers have started this. I know USAA and Costco offer a car buying service.

Bayside Tiger Ag said:

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Some banks and retailers have started this. I know USAA and Costco offer a car buying service.

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I tried the USAA TrueCar service. The dealership just said they couldn't sell a car at that price. I left and that was the end of it. I assume that they were easily moving them at higher prices, because they didn't call me to try to get me back in.

62strat said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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From what I understand the big three make the best money on trucks and SUVs. The dealership may not have much of a margin on them, but the manufacturers do. Makes sense with stripped down trucks that have $50K window stickers now.

---

2018 Ford F150 no backseat XL starts at $27k. Supercrew cab starts at $34k.. A fully loaded 4x4 Supercrew cab XLT is ~$50k. These are Ford.com prices.

What the hell stripped down truck did you pay $50k for?

---

My 301A was stickered at $48K although I bought it slightly used. From the factory it had cloth seats, no garage door opener, no remote start, worst sounding stereo I've heard in a modern vehicle, and a screen just big enough to satisfy backup camera requirements. That is pretty stripped down imo, but I understand that is subjective. I would expect at least some of those features in a vehicle that's stickered at close to $50K.

I don't care. I just negotiate and if I don't get my price, I walk.

aggieforester05 said:

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62strat said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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From what I understand the big three make the best money on trucks and SUVs. The dealership may not have much of a margin on them, but the manufacturers do. Makes sense with stripped down trucks that have $50K window stickers now.

---

2018 Ford F150 no backseat XL starts at $27k. Supercrew cab starts at $34k.. A fully loaded 4x4 Supercrew cab XLT is ~$50k. These are Ford.com prices.

What the hell stripped down truck did you pay $50k for?

---

My 301A was stickered at $48K although I bought it slightly used. From the factory it had cloth seats, no garage door opener, no remote start, worst sounding stereo I've heard in a modern vehicle, and a screen just big enough to satisfy backup camera requirements. That is pretty stripped down imo, but I understand that is subjective. I would expect at least some of those features in a vehicle that's stickered at close to $50K.

---

Was it 4x4 and supercrew cab?

Seven Costanza said:

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Bayside Tiger Ag said:

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Some banks and retailers have started this. I know USAA and Costco offer a car buying service.

---

I tried the USAA TrueCar service. The dealership just said they couldn't sell a car at that price. I left and that was the end of it. I assume that they were easily moving them at higher prices, because they didn't call me to try to get me back in.

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I used USAA service last year, and not only did I get the $500 back from USAA and a 1.9% rate on a used vehicle, but I actually negotiated another 8% off the 'no haggle' price.

free_mhayden said:

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This isn't 1985. The internet has made all of this easy.


1) Decide on the car you want
2) Email 10 different dealerships within 25 miles asking for their best price, all-in (after taxes, after key fob charges, after EVERYTHING).
3) Take the 5 best offers and pit them against each other, letting them know the best offer will get your money at the end of the week.


The whole process takes place over a week and should take less than 30 minutes of your time. You aren't getting some car for less than what the dealership makes on it or getting one over on the sales guy and making him really mad or any of those other things that every schmuck thinks.

But you're getting a good price on a car and spending very little of your time.

---

It has been about 4 years since I bought last vehicles but we bought 2 within a 6 month period and did about the same thing. I did research on the vehicles we wanted and then determined a price (basically found the lowest price anywhere i could find on the internet and sprinkled on a little more than that for what i was willing to pay). After that, I emailed about 10-15 dealers (using a new email address) including several in smaller towns in east and south texas (willing to drive a few hours if it saves a few thousand $$). Told them what I wanted and what I would pay and let me know if they wanted to sell to me or not and that I understood if they couldn't match it. A few wanted to then try and make it up on the trade-in but I didn't tell them what i was doing with current vehicle and was only focused on the purchase of this new one. Worked out and actually the best deal was in Plano. Not a hard concept. Anyone negotiating at the dealer is doing it wrong. Only use dealer to check out cars and test drive. Not to negotiate.

edit: the one part that I gave in on was that I agreed to finance through the dealership but I paid off within 6 months of financing so was not worried about the rate although it was just 3% or so if I remember right.

Buck O Five said:

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I regularly deal with distant relatives of BombayAg for work, and this cultures loves to haggle on everything from produce to furniture to clothing. For some reason Americans turn into eastern negotiators at car dealerships, where you want to win and you want the other side to lose. I appreciate dealerships that offer a western style approach with a fair market price. Just shop the market data to ensure the no-haggle price listed is fair market value.

---

Ah, so it was you.

I remember buying my SUV about 8 years ago and you or your relative was on the other side and he thought he was being cute. You know, he saw someone brown skinned and thought he could play with him and rip him off. But I don't have 3 degrees from 3 top schools for nothing. I just let him give me the slick salesman talk and I just listened. Then he trying to turn my wife against me "your husband does not want you to have a nice car!" and "you let your husband make all the decisions?? Tell him you want the car!". LOL Poor baaaastud. This probably works with feminist white women who hate their effeminate emasculated husbands but not with Asian (Indians, Chinese, Korean) women. I began to actually feel sorry for him. He most likely partied and drank through school, flunked out and now has to beg Indians and Chinese to buy cars from him. What a pitiable situation. And I have empathy.

Anyway, I had a price in mind and told him that. He made a show of being shocked. I just smiled at him. No words. Then he says "YOU are preventing us from making the sale!". I waved my check book (my old red University Dr/Tauber St Aggieland Credit Union cover dating back to 1995) and told him my hands are itching to write him a check but he was bring an stubborn ass and hurting himself. Then he said so many people wanted to buy his cars! I said I could not see anyone but me. Do you see anyone with a check book and pen? Noooooooooooooo. So that meant that he had a market of ONE. Yep, just me. No one else wanted his damn car. ha ha he turned red, especially when he saw my checkbook.

He tried some other silly tricks from his playbook, they all failed. I was having fun but then stopped myself from laughing at his face because poor guy was earning a living. Like we all do. so I agreed to pay him about $200 more because he literally began begging and pleading (and I am a nice guy and can't stand to see a grown man debase himself) so I made the deal.

I had taken a negotiations class during my MBA program. So I knew all the theoretical tricks and had created some of my own. It was fun turning theory into practice.

A few years ago, I bought an expensive German car and the whole cycle repeated. It's fun to get a great deal. But I make sure everyone makes some money.

BombayAg said:

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Buck O Five said:

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I regularly deal with distant relatives of BombayAg for work, and this cultures loves to haggle on everything from produce to furniture to clothing. For some reason Americans turn into eastern negotiators at car dealerships, where you want to win and you want the other side to lose. I appreciate dealerships that offer a western style approach with a fair market price. Just shop the market data to ensure the no-haggle price listed is fair market value.

---

Ah, so it was you.

I remember buying my SUV about 8 years ago and you or your relative was on the other side and he thought he was being cute. You know, he saw someone brown skinned and thought he could play with him and rip him off. But I don't have 3 degrees from 3 top schools for nothing. I just let him give me the slick salesman talk and I just listened. Then he trying to turn my wife against me "your husband does not want you to have a nice car!" and "you let your husband make all the decisions?? Tell him you want the car!". LOL Poor baaaastud. This probably works with feminist white women who hate their effeminate emasculated husbands but not with Asian (Indians, Chinese, Korean) women. I began to actually feel sorry for him. He most likely partied and drank through school, flunked out and now has to beg Indians and Chinese to buy cars from him. What a pitiable situation. And I have empathy.

Anyway, I had a price in mind and told him that. He made a show of being shocked. I just smiled at him. No words. Then he says "YOU are preventing us from making the sale!". I waved my check book (my old red University Dr/Tauber St Aggieland Credit Union cover dating back to 1995) and told him my hands are itching to write him a check but he was bring an stubborn ass and hurting himself. Then he said so many people wanted to buy his cars! I said I could not see anyone but me. Do you see anyone with a check book and pen? Noooooooooooooo. So that meant that he had a market of ONE. Yep, just me. No one else wanted his damn car. ha ha he turned red, especially when he saw my checkbook.

He tried some other silly tricks from his playbook, they all failed. I was having fun but then stopped myself from laughing at his face because poor guy was earning a living. Like we all do. so I agreed to pay him about $200 more because he literally began begging and pleading (and I am a nice guy and can't stand to see a grown man debase himself) so I made the deal.

I had taken a negotiations class during my MBA program. So I knew all the theoretical tricks and had created some of my own. It was fun turning theory into practice.

A few years ago, I bought an expensive German car and the whole cycle repeated. It's fun to get a great deal. But I make sure everyone makes some money.

---

62strat said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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62strat said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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From what I understand the big three make the best money on trucks and SUVs. The dealership may not have much of a margin on them, but the manufacturers do. Makes sense with stripped down trucks that have $50K window stickers now.

---

2018 Ford F150 no backseat XL starts at $27k. Supercrew cab starts at $34k.. A fully loaded 4x4 Supercrew cab XLT is ~$50k. These are Ford.com prices.

What the hell stripped down truck did you pay $50k for?

---

My 301A was stickered at $48K although I bought it slightly used. From the factory it had cloth seats, no garage door opener, no remote start, worst sounding stereo I've heard in a modern vehicle, and a screen just big enough to satisfy backup camera requirements. That is pretty stripped down imo, but I understand that is subjective. I would expect at least some of those features in a vehicle that's stickered at close to $50K.

---

Was it 4x4 and supercrew cab?

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Yes, even with crew cab and 4x4, I'd expect a $48K vehicle to have at least remote start, a garage door opener, and slightly better stereo. It wasn't long ago that everyone thought that price was crazy for lariat and platinum level trucks. My brother bought a brand new 2013 Platinum Crew Cab 4x4 ecoboost for $38K.

Truck prices are ridiculous right now... completely driven by demand.

going up at higher rates than college tuition in the last 5 years.

Got it if you want remove your info.

aggieforester05 said:

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62strat said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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62strat said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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From what I understand the big three make the best money on trucks and SUVs. The dealership may not have much of a margin on them, but the manufacturers do. Makes sense with stripped down trucks that have $50K window stickers now.

---

2018 Ford F150 no backseat XL starts at $27k. Supercrew cab starts at $34k.. A fully loaded 4x4 Supercrew cab XLT is ~$50k. These are Ford.com prices.

What the hell stripped down truck did you pay $50k for?

---

My 301A was stickered at $48K although I bought it slightly used. From the factory it had cloth seats, no garage door opener, no remote start, worst sounding stereo I've heard in a modern vehicle, and a screen just big enough to satisfy backup camera requirements. That is pretty stripped down imo, but I understand that is subjective. I would expect at least some of those features in a vehicle that's stickered at close to $50K.

---

Was it 4x4 and supercrew cab?

---

Yes, even with crew cab and 4x4, I'd expect a $48K vehicle to have at least remote start, a garage door opener, and slightly better stereo. It wasn't long ago that everyone thought that price was crazy for lariat and platinum level trucks. My brother bought a brand new 2013 Platinum Crew Cab 4x4 ecoboost for $38K.

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Well, you can't write those two options off as base model. that's $10k in upgrades.

FWIW, my '15 2.7 boost 301A was $42k sticker, and it had the 9" screen upgrade and tailgate step.

Also, FWIW, my current completely loaded '13 FX4 had a $49k sticker, so while your brother may have only paid $38k, the sticker was much higher, probably in mid 50s.


Sticker look up: (replace x with your VIN)
https://www.oemstickers.com/WindowSticker.php?vin=x