is dead.

What's the status of Charles Emerson Winchester II?

RIP David Ogden Stiers

Frank Burns was a more hateable character. MASH jumped the shark with Winchester.

It's kinda scary (for us old guys) that so many of that cast are dead. Sad to me.

The major difference between Burns & Charles was that Burns was such an easy character to hate.

He was an *******, a liar, a hypocratic adulterer, and a terrible doctor that somehow found ways to squeak by and make a lot of money. And the show made it fun to hate him which is quite impressive.

With Charles, they wanted to make it someone who was still, generally an ******* who came from money (much more than Burns)...but also equally proficient, and perhaps better a surgeon than Hawkeye or BJ.

This gave the interactions between the doctors a lot more variance as well. Because now there was at least mutual respect between the opposing sides, even though as people they didn't care for one another.

He was arguably a much more complex character than Burns and for that I liked him just as much as the antagonist.

MASH Genesis was the novel about doctors stuck in the army in the midst of a confusing war. Frank Burns was the epitome of the guy in the army who kissed a lot of ass and did everything by the book (or that was the image he tried to project) yet was completely incompetent at his MOS. After several seasons of the sitcom that character had seemingly run played out. The thing is, I could never understand how a guy like Winchester didn't have the connections to get out of Korea. I know how he got there by pissing off someone important, but he still seemed out of place. That said, at that point MASH had kind of stopped being a show about the military and was becoming a medical sitcom.

RIP, Major Winchester.

You really had to watch the movie a couple of times and see the entire series from start to finish at least a few times to really get an understanding of the character interaction. The above synopsis with Charles is pretty spot on. There were ZERO characters in that series that were accidents or cast with reckless abandon. Anyone that thinks the show died a little by casting him really doesn't understand the series.

It's sad but I spent my entire childhood and adult hood watching the show...still watch it. Only a few left....BJ aged the best though.

Burdizzo said:

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Frank Burns was a more hateable character. MASH jumped the shark with Winchester.

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No MASH was awesome with Winchester.

Couldn't remember if Winchester couldn't get out of going to the military, but figured he was the type to use it for political ambitions later in life.

Wrangler said:

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Couldn't remember if Winchester couldn't get out of going to the military, but figured he was the type to use it for political ambitions later in life.

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If I remember the episode where Winchester was introduced, he beat someone important in bridge and proceeded to rub his nose in it. The payback was the someone important had him shipped off to Korea instead of moving up the ranks of Massachusetts General Hospital (or something like that).

He was in Tokyo and got shipped to Korea

The show flipped when the killed off Henry and Trapper left.

Orignally it was an anti establishment or anti military comedy. So Frank and a great where one one side the rest on the other.

After cast change it was more just anti war comedy

PSA when searching for a video of your favorite Charles quotes, even with 'MASH' and 'winchester' included don't search for 'inflamed boil' on YouTube.

BQ_90 said:

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The show flipped when the killed off Henry and Trapper left.

Orignally it was an anti establishment or anti military comedy. So Frank and a great where one one side the rest on the other.

After cast change it was more just anti war comedy

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Yeah, and by the late-70s and early-80s being antiwar was just passe. That was old news.

Burdizzo said:

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Wrangler said:

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Couldn't remember if Winchester couldn't get out of going to the military, but figured he was the type to use it for political ambitions later in life.

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If I remember the episode where Winchester was introduced, he beat someone important in bridge and proceeded to rub his nose in it. The payback was the someone important had him shipped off to Korea instead of moving up the ranks of Massachusetts General Hospital (or something like that).

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It was cribbage. Potter knew the commanding officer Winchester beat, and called him needing another surgeon after Ferret Face flipped out. While Potter was asking, Winchester interrupted the call to point out he'd made a math error and kicked his ass by even more points than he originally thought. It pissed off Winchester's CO, so he shipped him off TDY to MASH.

Later on Potter calls the CO and makes a deal to keep Winchester permanently (it was a phone call, but I forgot how it went). Winchester flips out and says the CO would never leave him at a MASH to rot. Potter reminds him its the Colonel (or Lt. Col) who owes Winchester a couple hundred bucks from the cribbage game.

Winchester asks his family a couple of times to call in a favor or reach out to someone to get him out of Korea, most famously in the rubber chicken tea scene.



Winchester also once says his father knows Truman. He doesn't like him, but he knows him. He was on track to become the head of throacic surgery at Boston General when he was drafted. Hotlips calls in a favor to make sure he gets the job in the finale, but it becomes Boston Mercy Hospital.

jokershady said:

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The major difference between Burns & Charles was that Burns was such an easy character to hate.

He was an *******, a liar, a hypocratic adulterer, and a terrible doctor that somehow found ways to squeak by and make a lot of money. And the show made it fun to hate him which is quite impressive.

With Charles, they wanted to make it someone who was still, generally an ******* who came from money (much more than Burns)...but also equally proficient, and perhaps better a surgeon than Hawkeye or BJ.

This gave the interactions between the doctors a lot more variance as well. Because now there was at least mutual respect between the opposing sides, even though as people they didn't care for one another.

He was arguably a much more complex character than Burns and for that I liked him just as much as the antagonist.

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This is a pretty accurate assessment of both characters, but there is one important aspect I feel is missing.

Burns was so easy to hate because Frank thought of Frank and only Frank. Every thing he did was basically for himself, or secondarily for Major Houlihan only because she had something he wanted. I don't really remember Burns ever doing anything strictly for someone else's benefit. Hot Lips even did at least have a soft spot for the patients and other personnel around her at times.

Charles, on the other hand, even being the pompous elitist ass that he was, did actually go above and beyond for other people on occasion. One episode that immediately comes to mind is the one where a soldier comes into the hospital with a bad hand injury. It turns out that he is actually an accomplished pianist, and is devastated when he loses the use of one hand, or loses the hand entirely, thinking his career as a pianist is over. Charles pulls some strings, and procures some sheet music for him composed specifically for someone with only one hand. Of course this gives the soldier some hope and something to look forward to. Plus it makes Charles feel better for helping the guy, and makes him look like an actual human being for a while.

Winchester was the perfect foil for other guys. Great character, always good for laughs.

Burns was no match for him. Him leaving the show was perfect timing. His act was getting tiresome.

Donated chocolate to the orphanage at Christmas anonymously.

Jumped all over guys teasing a soldier who stuttered when they called him a dummy. Then you learn Winchester's sister stutters

He donated blood voluntarily.

The Best Korean musicians in the finale.

Gave Hotlips the book.

He had genuine respect for others, he just really wanted the F out.

I never liked the Dreams episode at first, probably because I was a kid when I first saw it. It's kind of grown on me. In Winchester's dream he's in a top hat doing magic tricks in the OR. Nothing helps the kid dying on the table in front of him. He winds up tap dancing with sparklers but can't save the kid. He wakes up horrified. Ferret Face openly gave up on a patient saying something to the effect of I tried or can't win them all.

Really enjoyed all the MASH episodes except those few in which Hawkeye was overly dramatic and extremely exaggerated. Those episodes had no humor written in -- just a focus on him. They just seemed like they were trying too hard to make their political point.

While not a regular, my favorite character was Colonel Flagg.

For Christmas, my son bought me DVDs of the first 8 seasons of M*A*S*H*

I am currently in season 5.

It's great nostalgia watching these and realizing how much my sense of humor was influenced by this series.

I still find myself using some of the one-liners from this series.

I think Gary Burghoff is under-rated in the series.

I think they did a great job in the transitions between Colonel Blake and Colonel Potter and from Trapper to B.J.

I think Burns' idiocy was overdone and too exaggerated. It could have done with a little more subtlety. It was almost 3-stooges-like. I haven't gotten to the seasons with Winchester yet in my current binge-watching, but I seem to recall Winchester being a more believable pompous ass. More subtlety and less hitting you over the head with it.

David Ogden Stiers played the part excellently.

Burdizzo said:

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While not a regular, my favorite character was Colonel Flagg.

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The wind broke his leg.

Dad-O-Lot said:

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Burdizzo said:

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While not a regular, my favorite character was Colonel Flagg.

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The wind broke his leg.

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"I've trained myself not to laugh or smile. I watched a hundred hours of the three stooges."

"Everytime I felt like smiling or laughing, I jabbed myself in the stomach with a cattle prod."

Robert Duvall as Frank Burns >>>>> Larry Linville as Frank Burns

Dad-O-Lot said:

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For Christmas, my son bought me DVDs of the first 8 seasons of M*A*S*H*

I am currently in season 5.

It's great nostalgia watching these and realizing how much my sense of humor was influenced by this series.

I still find myself using some of the one-liners from this series.

I think Gary Burghoff is under-rated in the series.

I think they did a great job in the transitions between Colonel Blake and Colonel Potter and from Trapper to B.J.

I think Burns' idiocy was overdone and too exaggerated. It could have done with a little more subtlety. It was almost 3-stooges-like. I haven't gotten to the seasons with Winchester yet in my current binge-watching, but I seem to recall Winchester being a more believable pompous ass. More subtlety and less hitting you over the head with it.

David Ogden Stiers played the part excellently.

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My dad, my brother and I can just about have complete conversations using nothing but MASH quotes. The standard response to anyone asking, "did you see that" is usually "a big red bird with fuzzy pink feet". Everything is made of oak. Nope, it's oak. Shots are usually toasted to someone "and his orchestra".

My favorite character was Captain Tuttle.

hillcountryag86 said:

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Really enjoyed all the MASH episodes except those few in which Hawkeye was overly dramatic and extremely exaggerated. Those episodes had no humor written in -- just a focus on him. They just seemed like they were trying too hard to make their political point.

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MASH is still one of my favorite shows ever, but it really went downhill after Alan Alda started really running things and focused more on the political statements and less on the comedy.

And I too have Col. Flagg as one of the best characters of all.

Just last night, on ME TV which is a Chicagoland TV station, they showed the first two episodes of Charles' entry into the series.

A perfect line up for the series for me would be Col. Potter, Hawkeye, Trapper John, Radar, Hot Lips, Klinger, Winchester, and Father Mulcahy all together. And of course, the usual set of add ins for each episode.

The series was best after Trapper left and before BJ grew his moustache.

I watched mash so much that I just don't enjoy it like I used to. The opening song still causes a bit of a comfort reaction when I hear it.

I cant guess how many times I have seen each episodes. The saddest was when Col. Henry Blake died on in a helicopter crash on his way home.

FCBlitz said:

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I watched mash so much that I just don't enjoy it like I used to. The opening song still causes a bit of a comfort reaction when I hear it.

I cant guess how many times I have seen each episodes. The saddest was when Col. Henry Blake died on in a helicopter crash on his way home.

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It was a plane crash. It was shot down over the Sea of Japan. It spun in. There were no survivors.