ryanhnc10 said:

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Only home team to lose the first game. Pathetic start cost us

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Only home team to play a team who is allowed to cheat their way to a Stanley Cup.

Roll the Bones said:

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Have faith guys. It's gonna be a long series.

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What's the point, we're all gonna die anyways.

NHL loves Vegas...

Missed penalties, phantom offsides!
But Ott has to have a better showing!

gigem1223 said:

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Of course Stone is the difference. Cant stand Vegas and their cheating asses

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this and was at the game and the refs were so bad

The cowboys, stars, and mavericks have all qualified for the playoffs recently and played one playoff game.

The last playoff win for this area was rangers in game 5 of the World Series.

Ughh

The Stars have to, have to, have to get out of their own freaking way. Quit with the lazy turnovers in our own zone or at the blue line (aka get your heads out on the backend), and move players and sticks in front of our goal for Pete's sake. We aren't going to win diddly if we give them the puck to skate freely into our zone and continuously screen our goaltender. We were better last night but gave them dangerous opportunities.

gigem1223 said:

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Of course Stone is the difference. Cant stand Vegas and their cheating asses

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I don't follow hockey religiously, what's the story here?

Stone was placed on IR for a good chunk of the season and magically before the playoffs he's healthy

I only got to watch the first period (living on the east coast sucks) but I liked the aggressiveness I saw from the boys, and the response after going down 2-0

BassCowboy33 said:

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All I do is Nguyen said:

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Stone was placed on IR for a good chunk of the season and magically before the playoffs he's healthy

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Vegas puts some of their best, highest cap players on IR to allow them to circumvent the cap, then activates them for the playoffs.

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I don't doubt that some of if not all of those guys were actually hurt, but the issue is that when you put guys on LTIR, you put their cap hit on LTIR as well, which is incredibly stupid and a loophole. You absolutely, positively should not be able to simply put guys on the IR and have their cap hit disappear. Whoever thought that was fair or a good idea is an idiot.

ETA: you do pay eventually in for putting guys on LTIR. I am not sure how specifically, but it affects your money or cap the following year I believe, but it's still a massive loophole if you can just push any punishment down the road.

Sorry for blowing this thread up, this will be my last one because work lol, but I thought PDB did a poor job with lines and deployment of players last night. I don't mind inserting Dadonov for Smith, as he brings more upside to the team, but you need to use him and the fourth line better. Put your horses out their to start the game too, good lord, and don't be afraid to mix it up a little bit.

I think the Robo, Hintz, Pavs line has run its course and I would consider moving Pavs down to try and spark Hintz and Robo. Hintz in particular did absolutely nothing last night, which doesn't exactly fill me with the warm fuzzies. We need Hintz if we are going to do anything.

Lastly...USE NILS LUNDQVIST OR GET HIM OUT OF THE LINEUP. I am so beyond tired of seeing Lundqvist being changed for at the dumbest most inopportune moments just because PDB doesn't trust him. If you don't trust him, then put someone else in their, because we can't play five d-men like we did last night.

Thanks for the explanation

Great analysis, thanks for writing that up!

The one thing I have noticed regarding Otter is that he seems to play too far out from the net a lot and all it takes is one small block/deflection and suddenly someone has a wide open net that he can't cover. He is so big, it seems like he could stay back in the net a bit more and let pucks hit him rather than being so aggressive and coming out to cut off angles.

Henry Lundqvist was talking about the difference between those two styles on the TNT broadcast recently and I thought it was really interesting. He talked about how playing back gives you a split second more time to find and track the puck, and whatever happens in front of the net (i.e. blocks, changes of direction, etc.) stays in front of the goalie, rather than going off to the side. He said coming out to challenge the shooters and cut off the angles has its time and place, but guys can be too aggressive and put themselves in a bad position where they aren't able to be in position for the second or third deflections/rebounds.


Last night it really seemed like the Knights were so much more physical and aggressive on the forecheck than we were and they really choked the life out of us for most of the game. The reason we got more shots and offensive pressure in the third was really more to do with Vegas playing to protect the lead. We really need to score the first couple of goals tomorrow night.

Also, we need a more physical game from everyone. Benn was the only Star that really stood out in the physical play. Vegas' fourth line especially really pounded our defensemen when they went back to get the puck in our zone and wreaked havoc, causing us to turn the puck over, have difficult exits from the zone, and just wearing us down.

The one thing to add, in case you weren't aware (and I don't think it was said above), is that there is no salary cap in the playoffs. So Vegas can be right at the cap on the last day of the regular season (including the players they were able to trade for since they had cap space due to LTIR), then reactivate the LTIR players for the playoffs which puts them $20 million over the regular-season cap, but it's legal since there's no postseason cap.

As I understand it, the rule was initially supposed to cover the call-ups for playoff reserves (like Dallas calling up G Matthew Murray and D Derrick Pouliot from the AHL).

dvldog said:

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The one thing to add, in case you weren't aware (and I don't think it was said above), is that there is no salary cap in the playoffs. So Vegas can be right at the cap on the last day of the regular season (including the players they were able to trade for since they had cap space due to LTIR), then reactivate the LTIR players for the playoffs which puts them $20 million over the regular-season cap, but it's legal since there's no postseason cap.

As I understand it, the rule was initially supposed to cover the call-ups for playoff reserves (like Dallas calling up G Matthew Murray and D Derrick Pouliot from the AHL).

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and instead they get back Mark Stone and Pietrangelo... 2 of Dallas' most hated rivals.

I hate Vegas but they're the bad boy darlings of the NHL. They're an absolutely terrible matchup for us. I'd rather play ANY team in the west except for them. They just bully us around and always seem to get a great game from someone and their goalie, regardless of who it is, stands on his head.

We need to prioritize getting a bruiser D player for the playoffs to lean on some of these teams. And, we should start looking at our G situation. I'm beginning to wonder if Oetter is a flash in the pan and is just another average to top 10-15 goalie.

Tampa rode their guy in our cup run. StL rode Binnington to theirs. We rode the Eagle to ours and Turko for years after that.

Remember when our top goalie was Lehtonen and he literally lost us the series vs. StL in 2016 and arguably 2019?

We had to ride Anton Khudobin to the stanley cup.

Roll the Bones said:

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The one thing I have noticed regarding Otter is that he seems to play too far out from the net a lot and all it takes is one small block/deflection and suddenly someone has a wide open net that he can't cover. He is so big, it seems like he could stay back in the net a bit more and let pucks hit him rather than being so aggressive and coming out to cut off angles.

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That's funny. My son, who is way too emotional during games, was yelling a few times at Otter for being too far out of his net. That and what you said made me remember this before I even read down to it:

Quote:

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Henry Lundqvist was talking about the difference between those two styles on the TNT broadcast recently and I thought it was really interesting. He talked about how playing back gives you a split second more time to find and track the puck, and whatever happens in front of the net (i.e. blocks, changes of direction, etc.) stays in front of the goalie, rather than going off to the side. He said coming out to challenge the shooters and cut off the angles has its time and place, but guys can be too aggressive and put themselves in a bad position where they aren't able to be in position for the second or third deflections/rebounds.

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Yep. It especially applies to Otter because he's a big guy. Smaller goalies have to play the angles because they don't take up as much of the net. Jake is too aggressive and commits too early, at times, for a guy his size. He needs to let the shooters make the first move and rely more on reflexes and instincts to make saves. He's freaking 6'5". He could take up a lot of the net if he just sat on the goal line. There's rarely a reason he should be out of the crease. He's out of position way too often.

Quote:

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Last night it really seemed like the Knights were so much more physical and aggressive on the forecheck than we were and they really choked the life out of us for most of the game. The reason we got more shots and offensive pressure in the third was really more to do with Vegas playing to protect the lead. We really need to score the first couple of goals tomorrow night.

Also, we need a more physical game from everyone. Benn was the only Star that really stood out in the physical play. Vegas' fourth line especially really pounded our defensemen when they went back to get the puck in our zone and wreaked havoc, causing us to turn the puck over, have difficult exits from the zone, and just wearing us down.

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Vegas is going to be more physical. It's part of their game. While I agree, we should probably be a little more physical, we shouldn't change our game. We 100% need to be throwing the body when the opportunity is there. Make guys pay for skating the puck along the boards. But, don't get crazy.
Driving in last night listening to the pre-game, I heard Seguin say they were more focused on playing their game than how to answer Vegas'. I love the approach. I think last year, at times, we got sidetracked trying to play a physical series against a team that is better equipped to play that style. The best way for this team to counter that forecheck is with good zone exits and to either avoid or absorb those hits. Absorbing is why I say this series is going to be a war of attrition. If we're going to win, guys are going to get dinged up. They have to be willing to take those hits.

The Benn goal was great. Johnston got the puck off the boards, avoided a forechecker, Vegas was collapsing on him, but he still managed to find the outlet lane and Benn streaking down the ice. Now, I read an article that said that was a stupid play by Benn because that could have easily been a turnover and Benn had already bailed, but that's how you create odd man chances.

What didn't work last night, is the two guys you would expect to excel at exiting the zone and playing with the puck were terrible. Harley couldn't control anything and Miro looked like he was overthinking everything. If we can get those two on track, we'll be in better shape.

And man, if we could inject some of Stankoven's tenacity into the other guys, watch out!

It all seems so easy, typing it up on a keyboard.

I am glad that you and a lot of other people are recognizing just how poor Miro and Harley were at times last night. Those two in particular cannot be as poor and as lackadaisical with puck, because they are going to be on the ice for at minimum 25 minutes a game at this rate.

I do agree on Otter that he doesn't play the angles well and really comes out of his crease, at times. I don't think that was his issue last night, as on two of the goals he was screened out the wazoo and literally did not see the puck. The other two were not great, especially the second they scored on the PP, but on the other idk what else he's supposed to do. Your teammate gifts the other team the puck to skate freely into your zone, then the guy who gave the puck away gets completely and inexcusably sucked up towards the puck leaving space behind him, where they quickly pass the puck and then fire an insanely quick laser on the ice to the back of the net. I just don't know how he's supposed to react that fast in that situation.

dvldog said:

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The one thing to add, in case you weren't aware (and I don't think it was said above), is that there is no salary cap in the playoffs. So Vegas can be right at the cap on the last day of the regular season (including the players they were able to trade for since they had cap space due to LTIR), then reactivate the LTIR players for the playoffs which puts them $20 million over the regular-season cap, but it's legal since there's no postseason cap.

As I understand it, the rule was initially supposed to cover the call-ups for playoff reserves (like Dallas calling up G Matthew Murray and D Derrick Pouliot from the AHL).

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I didnt realize this is the third year for Stone to be on LTIR and come back.

We faced the same problem we lost the Cup with Kucherov. Sounds like Carolina was super salty about that.

Its a little crazy to me that the salary cap is not in place for the playoffs. I get the reason though, but they should find a way to close the loophole where teams can stash players until they playoffs game 1. I kind of feel like if you are on LTIR but can come back that you are ineligible for round 1.

EastSideAg2002 said:

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dvldog said:

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The one thing to add, in case you weren't aware (and I don't think it was said above), is that there is no salary cap in the playoffs. So Vegas can be right at the cap on the last day of the regular season (including the players they were able to trade for since they had cap space due to LTIR), then reactivate the LTIR players for the playoffs which puts them $20 million over the regular-season cap, but it's legal since there's no postseason cap.

As I understand it, the rule was initially supposed to cover the call-ups for playoff reserves (like Dallas calling up G Matthew Murray and D Derrick Pouliot from the AHL).

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I didnt realize this is the third year for Stone to be on LTIR and come back.

We faced the same problem we lost the Cup with Kucherov. Sounds like Carolina was super salty about that.

Its a little crazy to me that the salary cap is not in place for the playoffs. I get the reason though, but they should find a way to close the loophole where teams can stash players until they playoffs game 1. I kind of feel like if you are on LTIR but can come back that you are ineligible for round 1.

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There are a lot of ideas out there for how to fix, but nothing can/will be done until the next CBA negotiations (i think it's after 2025 but could be wrong).

Couple that I've read:
To be eligible for 1st round you have to be off LTIR on last day of regular season (same thing you proposed).

The dressed roster for a playoff game has to be cap compliant using the same methodology as regular season (so your entire playoff roster can be over the cap but you can only dress/play $x worth of players any single game).

Anybody on LTIR after trade deadline is ineligible for playoffs.

So help me out here . . . are we mad that Vegas is messing with the salary cap rules or are we mad that Dallas didn't do the same thing? Couldn't we have traded for the same guys they did?

Yeah, I honestly wasn't expecting Miro and Harley to be the problems heading into game 1. That was very frustrating.

And you're right on Otter's positioning too. It wasn't the issue on at least 3 of the goals last night, just something I've noticed about his game.

A couple of those would have been tough stops, and really that second goal was largely on Harley and to a lesser extent Miro. But we need Otter to make saves. If not that one, with no screen in front, then the Hertl goal would have been nice. On that one, at least, he was out too far.

It's weird because I don't think Otter played particularly well, but I don't put the loss on him at all. But 4 goals on 15 shots is terrible, thanks in no small part to the nature of those chances. The team in front has to play better, and Otter needs to come up with at least one or two big saves and not just stop the "easy" ones.

As I've said, it's a shame Derian Hatcher isn't still playing.

Could really use him going up high on Stone in the same manner he did Roenick.

The good ol days!

Unfortunately he'd be suspended three games for that these days lol.

Well that goes to show you my age and how much I remember from from that game/series lol. I think I was 5-6 at that time haha.

No worries! I had to look it up to remember how long he was out. I recalled he didn't even play against the Oilers in the playoffs that year and missed a couple games against the Blues.