Jonas beat him last year

And sandbagged the end so Wout would get the stage win.

I think it's a coin toss but I'm rooting for Tadej so we can have the jersey pass over and give us more fireworks

I think Jonas is the diesel of the two, while Tadej is the 2-stroke street bike. The only time Tadej has put time into Jonas has been when they have long climbs where Jonas was put on the limit and Tadej was able to accelerate away from him for a short time, long enough to cross the line with time. I think over longer than a km or two, Jonas has better power, but Tadej has better peak power for shorter efforts. I would take Jonas in the time trial, but probably not by much because it isn't very long.

Unless one of them has a mechanical or a crash, it will probably stay where it is. 2022 - On the opening 13k ITT last year, Pogacar bested Jonas by 8s; On the 40k Jonas was 8s better (even though he eased up because he already had a 2.5min advantage).

Guessing at the 20k mark is where they will start to converge time wise.

Not sure we've seen a chess match like this in sports in a long time

And no one in the US watching

Phat32 said:

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Not sure we've seen a chess match like this in sports in a long time

And no one in the US watching

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The TdF is very unique in approach. Definitely becomes chess with all of the variability and duration of the tour.

Jonas up 16s at first checkpoint. Hopefully he's not burning up too much early on.

Pogacar is supposed to change bikes before the last climb. Jonas probably not.

Pogacar 31s down at second check and a bike change.

65s at third check. This is a drubbing


1:38 at the line and Pogacar was a 1:12 ahead of 3rd place. Crazy times….

Jonas beat Pogi by 1:38 and Pogi still got 2nd place!

WOW!!!

Well at least we know UAE will have to go bonkers Wednesday and Saturday.

That was slightly more impressive than my Lifecycle ride this morning.

Pignorant said:

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Jonas beat Pogi by 1:38 and Pogi still got 2nd place!

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That really is incredible for that short of a time trial, even though it was uphill. Hats off to Jonas.

Unreal gap! I didn't get to watch. What gave Jonas this edge? Seems like he picked up pace at every split?

Chipotlemonger said:

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Unreal gap! I didn't get to watch. What gave Jonas this edge? Seems like he picked up pace at every split?

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He's just incredibly efficient. Super low weight and tons of power. Technical turning. Just a perfect ride.

Tadej was beat no matter what, but there will definitely be a discussion about whether it was worth it for him to change bikes on the climb

JCRiley09 said:

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Tadej was beat no matter what, but there will definitely be a discussion about whether it was worth it for him to change bikes on the climb

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He and his team obviously had something to make them think it would be faster. Maybe he doesn't go uphill on his TT bike as well. No way to know what difference it made, but his climbing just didn't look smooth at all, even though he beat the entire rest of the field handily. He just didn't have the legs today to keep up with Jonas.

Y'all think that motorcycle being in the way of Tadej's attack on Sunday is making much of a difference right now?

He might have gotten time, but not 1'36" or whatever

Chipotlemonger said:

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Y'all think that motorcycle being in the way of Tadej's attack on Sunday is making much of a difference right now?

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I'd guess that was no more than a 10-15 second difference, giving him the benefit of the doubt that he could gap Jonas to the summit and then get him at the line at the finish still. Remains to be seen if that is consequential going forward. Hard to know how Jonas' legs will recover tomorrow.

On the pre-race show, they said Jumbo has lighter (way better tech) TT bikes than UAE so that was part of the decision. Tadej was still 1:12 up on third place. Jonas and his TT bike worked in perfect harmony today.

After the past 3 years, I'm wondering if fatigue is a thing of the past.

SydB92 said:

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On the pre-race show, they said Jumbo has lighter (way better tech) TT bikes than UAE so that was part of the decision. Tadej was still 1:12 up on third place. Jonas and his TT bike worked in perfect harmony today.

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I hate to go there, but we have heard all this "marginal gains", "better tech", and they are training smarter stuff before and it almost always turns out the same way. The UCI has a minimum bike weight limit and almost every team is going to be right at that limit. Jonas was just that much stronger. Time will tell if he did so through marginal gains and smarter training or via something else.

Quote of the day……

SydB92 said:

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Quote of the day……

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Lawson Craddock said something similar the other day when interviewed after coming in 4th on the stage. He said something like he was trying to win the race of the mere mortals or something like that.

I still can't believe he beat second by 1:38. It's unbelievable.

txags92 said:

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SydB92 said:

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On the pre-race show, they said Jumbo has lighter (way better tech) TT bikes than UAE so that was part of the decision. Tadej was still 1:12 up on third place. Jonas and his TT bike worked in perfect harmony today.

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I hate to go there, but we have heard all this "marginal gains", "better tech", and they are training smarter stuff before and it almost always turns out the same way. The UCI has a minimum bike weight limit and almost every team is going to be right at that limit. Jonas was just that much stronger. Time will tell if he did so through marginal gains and smarter training or via something else.

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I'm guessing the vast majority of them are micro-dosing to stay just below the testing limit. I'm suspect this is the norm in most sports.

chico said:

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txags92 said:

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SydB92 said:

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On the pre-race show, they said Jumbo has lighter (way better tech) TT bikes than UAE so that was part of the decision. Tadej was still 1:12 up on third place. Jonas and his TT bike worked in perfect harmony today.

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I hate to go there, but we have heard all this "marginal gains", "better tech", and they are training smarter stuff before and it almost always turns out the same way. The UCI has a minimum bike weight limit and almost every team is going to be right at that limit. Jonas was just that much stronger. Time will tell if he did so through marginal gains and smarter training or via something else.

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I'm guessing the vast majority of them are micro-dosing to stay just below the testing limit. I'm suspect this is the norm in most sports.

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I actually suspect it is stuff that is "legal" but a gray area that the top guys are just doing more of than everybody else. With Team Sky, it was tramadol to let their guys bury themselves deeper without feeling the pain. Jumbo is one of the teams putting ketones in their fluids. The ketones are legal under WADA, but the head of the Dutch anti-doping group doesn't think they should be. There is probably something else that we don't know about yet, but we will find out next time there is a falling out with a team member or staffer.

It's over.

Jonas is unreal. To do that on that stage the day after wiping the field in the TT is incredible.

Pogi crashed earlier in the race. Had a huge gash on his left leg.

He's in danger of not even being the top finisher on his team…

Pretty emphatic statement. Hate to see it happen the way it has with Pogacar not being at 100% on his wrist coming in and then crashing early today. Riding in pain has to take a lot out of you mentally. But hopefully he will come back healthy next year and we can see them battle it out for seconds in the finishing time trial in Nice.

He's probably going to do Giro/Vuelta instead of TdF.

Pignorant said:

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He's probably going to do Giro/Vuelta instead of TdF.

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That would be a shame not to see a healthy rematch.