H2O, are you A.C. from the FM?

LOB hit the nail on the head with Beck. Swimming for Longhorn, in Austin, seeing Brackin everyday at the pool...etc, etc...that would explain the early commitment. Kinda like Michael Klueh swimming at Austin Bowie H.S and then ironically enough continuing to swim for Eddie.

Those times from those walkons are impressive...

1:49.2 in the IM for Holland? Thats an NCAA 'B' Cut, and the fastest he had gone all season in that event was like a 1:56. same thing with his backstrokes. 52ish all season to 48 in the 100? and 157+ all season to 148 in the 200? Talk about a taper, thats pretty considerable drops.

Chambless got B Cuts in his breastrokes also, 54 and 2:00, and thats one heck of a 50 time. I remember 2 years ago his soph year when conference was at mizzou, he was on the B squad and swam out of his mind...he woulda been middle of the A heat in most of his events if hed been on the scoring squad.

Anybody have a Men's media guide to check how those 2 guys rank on A&Ms all time list in their events? I know they've gotta be in the top 10...

and 3 out of 4 guys on the (assumed) NCAA qualifying 200 FreeRelay were walkons (Gardner being the exception)...VERY impressive.

the considerable improvement of those guys who chose to take little/no money to come here over other schools says alot not only about their character & dedication, but also about the programs ability to develop young, perhaps less talented swimmers, as well as semi-studs.

Mary Beck is definitely a TXLA swimmer and surely sees Brackin often. I bet Matt Thompson has spoken to many coaches already on his own initiative.

Texas has at least three TXLA girls on their roster: Delia Huang, Alexi Spann, and Lindsay Voyles. Texas had Hayley McGregory, who transferred to USC, but has since moved back to Austin.

Why aren't the team records on the website?
Or am I just dumb and couldn't find them?

DFW... maybe I am, and how might I know you?

BigPapa - in answer to your question:

Chambless' times put him 3rd in the 100Br, and 4th in the 200Br in the history of the program

Holland's 2IM is 5th, his 100 Back is 7th, and his 200 Back is 10th all time.

AAI - The team records are not on the website...dont know why though, they definitely should be

[This message has been edited by texagg09 (edited 3/4/2008 10:13p).]

Who did the men's team sign this year?

A couple things I read here raised my eyebrows. First, all this talk about "walkons". I think there should be some distinction made between walkons and recruited walkons. I assume that none of those names mentioned just showed up at the pool the first day of school asking to try out for the team. (The original definition of a "walkon".) I would be willing to bet those guys were all recruited by and went on recruiting trips to A&M. The college swimming world needs to come up with some better term than walkon to differentiate those type of swimmers. There are lots of schools that aren't allowed to give athletic scholarships and I'm sure they don't consider their teams a bunch of "walkons"
.
Secondly, if these "walkons" Strange, Chambless, Holland, Welch....aren't getting the scholarships because they are going to the "international" swimmers, then where are all these "international" guys? I see Denisyako and Jacobo as the only top (point scoring) foreign guys at Big 12's. Then Gardner, Chambless, Holland, Strange, Welch in that order. So what's up with that? I checked the A&M roster online and I see a lot of out of foreign guys listed but they didn't swim at Big 12's. So all those guys that aren't contributing to the team are getting all the scholarships?? Can someone enlighten me?

[This message has been edited by amazon (edited 3/5/2008 11:47a).]

Amazon - I count 9 non-Americans on the roster including Sehn (diver on 1 year leave to train for the Canadian Olympic team).

Six non-American swimmers competed in the Big12:

Loncaric
Duran
Clarke
Denisyako
Van Dam
Jacobo

That means only two did not compete at Big 12s.

As for "walkon" - yes many of them were recruited. And they joined the team without a scholarship, at least initially. But I don't know if it matters what we call them. In the swimming world - if they are fast, no one cares.

Denisyako was a Nov. signee...and a darn good one too

Don't know how it is now, but in the past, lots of kids came as walk ons or on partial scholarships.
When you "popped" (the year you dropped big and became a key part of a relay or individual swimmer), there was a better offer for you (ie your scholarship could go up).
The coaches also worked hard to keep scholarships at freshman levels, even if you bombed and did terrible, you could keep your scholarhship if you kept swimming.

H2O, let's just say my old man is New Wave...does that ring a bell?

Is men's swimming a victim of Title IX? Seems like it and if that is the case it is a crime.

Of course it's a victim of title IX, what men's program at any school was cut because of anything else.

Men's swimming is affected by Title IX and the arms race in football and basketball.

Notice that the Big 12 has just 3 men's swimming programs. Iowa St. plans to add it back in the next few years.

Big schools like OU and TT once had men's swimming. Hell those schools don't even have women's swimming. But to keep up with Texas (even A&M) they spend disproportionately more money on football that Texas does. So they compete in fewer sports, especially money-losing sports like swimming. Rice and UH have women's swimming but not men's. Many Division 1 schools trying to compete in football don't have men's swimming - but have women's to satisfy Title IX.

Ahhhh... I'm on board, my fan-dancing buddy.

As for the definition of walk-on, it sounds like someone's getting their panties in wad over nothing. I think everyone here understands that the term is just referring to a non-scholarship athlete (or was at one point)and not the swimming equivalent of Rudy.

Title IX has an effect on the number of roster spots in addition to the scholarship money. I don't know if it's still like this, but I remember the UT women used to have something like 50+ roster spots. Some of those girls were nowhere near competing at all.

Men's swimming, like everything else in life, is affected by money...If it weren't for Title IX, both men's AND women's programs at a lot of places would be getting axed...

Spicewood,actually, there are 10 because Denisyako isn't even on the roster. (?) OK, so that still means that only half (5) scored at Big 12's. It just doesn't make sense if that indeed is where most of the scholarship money is going.

You're right about Denisyako. But that is just a website problem. The guys I listed above DID swim because they are listed in the meet results.

As for scholarships - Texas can't offer any more scholarships than we can. Those are controlled by the NCAA. Universities choose the funding levels based on their budgets. If TT has only $45M (I don't know how much they have) they may not fund as many sports regardless of scholarship limits.

Spicewood, not to get picky but I said only 5 scored.

OK Amazon.....

But let's get to the heart of the issue. The reason we have non-Americans on the roster is that Jay needs fast swimmers. For whatever reason - he is finding some talent in other places. For example he found the backstroke guy he wanted with Denisyako.

Auburn has a long history of having many foreigners on its team. 3/4 of the South African 400 free relay gold medal team swam for Arizona St. US colleges train many of the best foreign swimmers in the world. Eddie Reese is a bit unusual in that he apparently strongly prefers to have Americans on his team. Or it could be that they want to go to Austin instead of Auburn Alabama. Oh yeah - they have all those national championship banners hanging from the ceiling!

I think Jay is doing a fine job. Somehow we need to figure out how to get some of the studs to take A&M more seriously and help us move up to the top 10.

I think the point Amazon is trying to make, is not against guys like Denisyako, Jacobo, and Duran...but rather the guys who either werent at the meet (Lavery, Zilberman), or didnt contribute (significantly) at the meet (Loncaric, VanDam(Bsquad)). Its one thing to spend the scholarship to get the big money guys, like Denisyako, who as we've all seen has shown hes the real deal and a great pickup, and its another to spend them on guys to put on the B squad, or who stay at home to swim sectionals

Yes - it's a perfectly good point. So either these guys will be a bust or aren't ready to show us what their potential is. I'm sure Jay knows.

But let's also consider that any swimmer, foreign or domestic, might not perform as expected. We also don't know what the story is with these guys. Remember too that scholarships are annual - any athlete has to earn theirs every year.

Women's Psych Sheet is up

http://www.ncaaswim.com/pdf/OfficialPsych.pdf

None of the B cuts made it except the one that already have their A cuts.

No freshmen on the list.


Also Wilkinson is not swimming the 100 back.

[This message has been edited by catlee81 (edited 3/6/2008 11:00a).]

Tho the scholarships are done annually, they usually give the student 2 years. If they dont do too well one year, basically they have another year to prove themselves.

The foreigners that stayed back at Sectionals this year were ineligible this year.

Im not sure if they all have full scholarships either. I have heard that a VERY good swimmer on the girls team from out of the country is only on 50%. (but again thats hearsay from one of the other girls on the team.)

http://www.ncaaswim.com/pdf/OfficialPsych.pdf

FIFY

[This message has been edited by SpicewoodAg (edited 3/6/2008 5:15p).]

Any 2 year commitment must be unofficial and verbal. We had Magnus Kellberg (sp?) for one year as our distance guy. He disappeared. Others just disappear before they do anything, good or bad.

The psych sheet shows us in many good positions. No Beth McCullough. Her 500 time is plenty fast enough to have made the 500 invited list. Did Bultman just hit the max swimmmer limit? I didn't try to count our athletes.

Notice who is first in the 100 free???

spice- if you notice all the "b" cuts are of people that are either on a relay or have their "a" cut in another event. Bultman cut beth off the 800 free relay and replaced her with erin mahoney. since this years competition was so fast, just having a b cut doesnt mean anything.

also i think the 2 yr thing is just an understanding.

[This message has been edited by catlee81 (edited 3/6/2008 12:08p).]

Magnus Kjelberg was definitly NOT a distance guy, he was a hard core sprinter...transfered to Arizona State after one year here. Bojan Zdesar was the distance guy who came in that same year, and he also went back home after one year

You're right about Magnus. I had him confused with the other one year foreigner!

Does SMU out-recruit us for Texas talent on the men's side?

Disclaimer: I don't know anything about high school swimming in the state of Texas other than it seems like there is a ton of talent and if they don't go to Austin they go out of state.

I looked at SMU's roster. Most of their Texas athletes were not superstars. I am most familiar with Jerr Merrit and Maverick Smalley. They both swam for TXLA in Austin. Smalley was a national star age group swimmer, especially when he was 11-12 and 13-14. I don't think he is improving much. I don't know if Texas offered Smalley or not.

But I don't think SMU recruits Texas better than A&M. SMU has an aging 25 yd. pool. But they have a long history of good swimming. Before the rise of Texas, SMU was THE swimming power in Texas.

Clearing up a few misconceptions that I have checked with my people:

1) Van Dam is also a walk-on despite being from out of country

2) Kjellberg had one great year at ASU after transferring but was less than impressive this year; perhaps his inconsistency might have been a reason he's not here any more?

3) I can't believe McCullough didn't make it in the meet with a 4:45...that is just plain ridiculous...She was NOT on the invited list however...her time simply wasn't fast enough...only 8 or so B cuts made the ENTIRE meet...I am told that McCullough (and Maria Sommer) might possibly be taken as relay alternates...Bultman may likely see how the entire group swims 200's at the meet to decide who is on the 800 free relay...Mahoney is on there because he r time is #4 on the team...he entered the relay on add-up time which explains why Hansen isn't there...just because it is entered that way does not mean that those will be the four behind the blocks