***** The Lord of the Rings: Official Thread *****

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Brian Earl Spilner
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Quote:

Again... yes, great source material. But short explanations about what happened. No true story or character development from the author.
This is why they hire writers.

I see your point, but I'm not a Tolkien purist. Middle Earth is such a rich world, and there's such an expansive history, that it's ripe for this kind of storytelling.

You will always have the books if that's what you want. But no reason we can't have a separate cinematic universe (which we technically already have), and have new stories told that were only told from a macro perspective by Tolkien.
Brian Earl Spilner
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And yes, I'm aware that this is what became the ultimate downfall of The Hobbit trilogy, but that production was plagued with issues from the start, not the least of which was the complete lack of pre-production due to Del Toro's late exit from the project.

I think Amazon's unlimited budget will be a major factor here.
Fightin TX Aggie
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Matthew McConaughey as Annatar (Sauron in disguise):

"Hey man. You got a ring of power? It'd be a lot cooler if you did."
powerbelly
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There is enough in the Quenta Silmarillion and Akallabeth to have a complete framework for a multi-season show.

Obviously the writers would need to flesh it out, but at least the beginning, middle, and end are complete (unlike GOT).
Brian Earl Spilner
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Fightin TX Aggie said:

Matthew McConaughey as Annatar (Sauron in disguise):

"Hey man. You got a ring of power? It'd be a lot cooler if you did."
Frodo: "Mordor. Which way is it?"
MM as Gandalf: "A right, a right, a right."
YouBet
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bluefire579 said:

tv1113 said:

Baron Von Flag Smasher said:

This almost makes me think the Wheel of Time TV show is toast, with that budget for LoTR.


I'm not particularly salty that they are spending that much I'm more salty that they are spending that much on one set of fantasy material that is set in a world that has largely been done with 6 movies. There is a lot of great fantasy material that is wrapped up in studio rights that will never get made and we drop 500 million on one season of tv instead.

That budget could easily make season one of at least 5 different series like Dresden Files, Mistborn or any Sanderson, Red Rising, Weeks Shadow trilogy, etc.

And you are right it might severely hamper the budget for brand new material hitting the screen with Wheel of Time.
They've already attempted to turn Dresden Files into a TV show: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dresden_Files_(TV_series)

Gotta think that if Wheel of Time is successful, Mistborn won't be too far behind.
Never realized this was a thing. Would love to see it done right, but I'm afraid it would feel dated at this point. There have been so many derivatives of this genre out there as it is. Totally onboard though if they do it.
YouBet
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Fightin TX Aggie said:

Matthew McConaughey as Annatar (Sauron in disguise):

"Hey man. You got a ring of power? It'd be a lot cooler if you did."
Sauron:

"That's what I love about these humans, man. I get older, they stay the same age."
Madmarttigan
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bluefire579 said:

tv1113 said:

Baron Von Flag Smasher said:

This almost makes me think the Wheel of Time TV show is toast, with that budget for LoTR.


I'm not particularly salty that they are spending that much I'm more salty that they are spending that much on one set of fantasy material that is set in a world that has largely been done with 6 movies. There is a lot of great fantasy material that is wrapped up in studio rights that will never get made and we drop 500 million on one season of tv instead.

That budget could easily make season one of at least 5 different series like Dresden Files, Mistborn or any Sanderson, Red Rising, Weeks Shadow trilogy, etc.

And you are right it might severely hamper the budget for brand new material hitting the screen with Wheel of Time.
They've already attempted to turn Dresden Files into a TV show: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dresden_Files_(TV_series)

Gotta think that if Wheel of Time is successful, Mistborn won't be too far behind.


Do not bring up that TV show. It pains me that it was ever made and that they used almost nothing from the books other than names.
Carlo4
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Fightin TX Aggie said:

Matthew McConaughey as Annatar (Sauron in disguise):

"Hey man. You got a ring of power? It'd be a lot cooler if you did."
Frodo: "Mordor. Which way is it?"
MM as Gandalf: "A right, a right, a right."
Party at the Twin Tower
Carlo4
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YouBet said:

Fightin TX Aggie said:

Matthew McConaughey as Annatar (Sauron in disguise):

"Hey man. You got a ring of power? It'd be a lot cooler if you did."
Sauron:

"That's what I love about these elves, man. I get older, they stay the same age."
FIFY...
Fightin TX Aggie
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Carlo4 said:

YouBet said:

Fightin TX Aggie said:

Matthew McConaughey as Annatar (Sauron in disguise):

"Hey man. You got a ring of power? It'd be a lot cooler if you did."
Sauron:

"That's what I love about these elves, man. I get older, they stay the same age."
FIFY...
Nerd burn!

PatAg
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bluefire579 said:

tv1113 said:

Baron Von Flag Smasher said:

This almost makes me think the Wheel of Time TV show is toast, with that budget for LoTR.


I'm not particularly salty that they are spending that much I'm more salty that they are spending that much on one set of fantasy material that is set in a world that has largely been done with 6 movies. There is a lot of great fantasy material that is wrapped up in studio rights that will never get made and we drop 500 million on one season of tv instead.

That budget could easily make season one of at least 5 different series like Dresden Files, Mistborn or any Sanderson, Red Rising, Weeks Shadow trilogy, etc.

And you are right it might severely hamper the budget for brand new material hitting the screen with Wheel of Time.
They've already attempted to turn Dresden Files into a TV show: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dresden_Files_(TV_series)

Gotta think that if Wheel of Time is successful, Mistborn won't be too far behind.
I believe in one of his podcast/youtube videos, Sanderson mentioned that he intends to make a Mistborn movie, and is working on the screenplay for it. He has sold the rights before and nothing came of it. But it is something he said he definitely intends to bring to tv/cinema.

So we might eventually get either Mistborn or the Stormlight Archives (this one would have to be a tv show imo).
YouBet
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PatAg said:

bluefire579 said:

tv1113 said:

Baron Von Flag Smasher said:

This almost makes me think the Wheel of Time TV show is toast, with that budget for LoTR.


I'm not particularly salty that they are spending that much I'm more salty that they are spending that much on one set of fantasy material that is set in a world that has largely been done with 6 movies. There is a lot of great fantasy material that is wrapped up in studio rights that will never get made and we drop 500 million on one season of tv instead.

That budget could easily make season one of at least 5 different series like Dresden Files, Mistborn or any Sanderson, Red Rising, Weeks Shadow trilogy, etc.

And you are right it might severely hamper the budget for brand new material hitting the screen with Wheel of Time.
They've already attempted to turn Dresden Files into a TV show: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dresden_Files_(TV_series)

Gotta think that if Wheel of Time is successful, Mistborn won't be too far behind.
I believe in one of his podcast/youtube videos, Sanderson mentioned that he intends to make a Mistborn movie, and is working on the screenplay for it. He has sold the rights before and nothing came of it. But it is something he said he definitely intends to bring to tv/cinema.

So we might eventually get either Mistborn or the Stormlight Archives (this one would have to be a tv show imo).
Gonna have to tighten that movie up quite a bit because there is alot of boring downtime in those books.
hunter2012
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YouBet said:

PatAg said:

bluefire579 said:

tv1113 said:

Baron Von Flag Smasher said:

This almost makes me think the Wheel of Time TV show is toast, with that budget for LoTR.


I'm not particularly salty that they are spending that much I'm more salty that they are spending that much on one set of fantasy material that is set in a world that has largely been done with 6 movies. There is a lot of great fantasy material that is wrapped up in studio rights that will never get made and we drop 500 million on one season of tv instead.

That budget could easily make season one of at least 5 different series like Dresden Files, Mistborn or any Sanderson, Red Rising, Weeks Shadow trilogy, etc.

And you are right it might severely hamper the budget for brand new material hitting the screen with Wheel of Time.
They've already attempted to turn Dresden Files into a TV show: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dresden_Files_(TV_series)

Gotta think that if Wheel of Time is successful, Mistborn won't be too far behind.
I believe in one of his podcast/youtube videos, Sanderson mentioned that he intends to make a Mistborn movie, and is working on the screenplay for it. He has sold the rights before and nothing came of it. But it is something he said he definitely intends to bring to tv/cinema.

So we might eventually get either Mistborn or the Stormlight Archives (this one would have to be a tv show imo).
Gonna have to tighten that movie up quite a bit because there is a lot of boring downtime in those books.

The Final Empire was fine. It had a great buildup and could be screen written like a heist movie. The Well of Ascension was the slow one as it was mostly political intrigue. The Hero of Ages wraps up like an epic conclusion(think Return of the King).

I think a movie trilogy could be made from this, easily. Metal based Magic is very unique for fantasy so it would have high potential with a proper budget. The setting especially is fascinating, a pre-industrial, global empire where it rains ash more often than rain. Just a really awesome concept.

I will say that I think the cast will need to very good to pull it off, it is a character driven story. Vin, Kelsier, Elend, and Sazed will need great actors.
YouBet
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hunter2012 said:

YouBet said:

PatAg said:

bluefire579 said:

tv1113 said:

Baron Von Flag Smasher said:

This almost makes me think the Wheel of Time TV show is toast, with that budget for LoTR.


I'm not particularly salty that they are spending that much I'm more salty that they are spending that much on one set of fantasy material that is set in a world that has largely been done with 6 movies. There is a lot of great fantasy material that is wrapped up in studio rights that will never get made and we drop 500 million on one season of tv instead.

That budget could easily make season one of at least 5 different series like Dresden Files, Mistborn or any Sanderson, Red Rising, Weeks Shadow trilogy, etc.

And you are right it might severely hamper the budget for brand new material hitting the screen with Wheel of Time.
They've already attempted to turn Dresden Files into a TV show: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dresden_Files_(TV_series)

Gotta think that if Wheel of Time is successful, Mistborn won't be too far behind.
I believe in one of his podcast/youtube videos, Sanderson mentioned that he intends to make a Mistborn movie, and is working on the screenplay for it. He has sold the rights before and nothing came of it. But it is something he said he definitely intends to bring to tv/cinema.

So we might eventually get either Mistborn or the Stormlight Archives (this one would have to be a tv show imo).
Gonna have to tighten that movie up quite a bit because there is a lot of boring downtime in those books.

The Final Empire was fine. It had a great buildup and could be screen written like a heist movie. The Well of Ascension was the slow one as it was mostly political intrigue. The Hero of Ages wraps up like an epic conclusion(think Return of the King).

I think a movie trilogy could be made from this, easily. Metal based Magic is very unique for fantasy so it would have high potential with a proper budget. The setting especially is fascinating, a pre-industrial, global empire where it rains ash more often than rain. Just a really awesome concept.

I will say that I think the cast will need to very good to pull it off, it is a character driven story. Vin, Kelsier, Elend, and Sazed will need great actors.
Yeah, I think they could definitely make it work; there are just long stretches of boring much of which could be cut.
Chipotlemonger
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Would love to see a Mistborn trilogy of movies. I definitely think the uniqueness of the system and the story itself could translate well to the screen.
The Collective
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I want to believe in this, but I fear it is going to be a huge flop.
Solo Tetherball Champ
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I Have Spoken said:

I want to believe in this, but I fear it is going to be a huge flop.
It's a pretty interesting setting, but the I don't think the challenge is the lack of material to directly adapt.

The Second Age exists primarily as a broad historical outline, with a couple of brief essays, plus plenty of incomplete (and often contrasting) narratives.

So, on the one hand Amazon has a ton of freedom to work with. The lack of narratives and plot gives them plenty of freedom (what do Gil-Galad and Elrond talk about, how does Sauron entice men and dwarves who just fought against him to accept Rings of Power, etc). They can invent plots, subplots, major, minor, and recurring characters and well as their personalities and motives.

The drawback, in my opinion, primarily come from audience expectations.

The two most well known bits of Tolkiens world are LOTR and The Hobbit. Those are narratives constructed around quests: destroying the Ring, and reclaiming ancestral treasure. Everything else that happens is in support or addition to the core narrative of the "quest"

Nothing in the Second Age is built around an adventure. Instead, what we know of it primarily is told through the perspectives of powerful dynasts and ruling figures. What drives the Second Age are their rivalries, alliances, and personal disputes: Noldor against Silvan Elves, Noldor and their friendship with Dwarves, Sindarin and Silvan elves dislike of dwarves, Noldor elves under Celebrimbor against the Noldor led by Galadriel/Gil-Galad (echoes of the house of Feanor against Finfolfin), Numenorians friendship and eventual cultural jealousy and hatred of elves, shifting Numenorian attitudes towards the normal men of middle-earth, Kings Men against the Faithful, and a charismatic, machiavellian, and most importantly, present Sauron playing these conflicts against each other to his own advantage.

In short, this should be more similar in many respects to GOT than LOTR, even if it does not revel in cynical political power struggles and lacks the gratuitous nudity and violence of the former. A Tolkienesque tale would show those to be a fruitless waste of energy and effort rather than glorify then. You can see the evidence of this in the subplot regarding Aragorn's claim to the throne, as told in LOTR + the appendices (IE, book version), or how the mistrust of the various kingdoms of the elves constantly undermined them in their wars against Morgoth (sure, the war was ultimately unwinnable, but they got in their own way too many times to even have a shot).

Lastly, there is the scale of the conflict: Sauron was a civilization ending threat for nearly two millennia. His rise and defeat in the third age is a blink of an eye by comparison. I hope Amazon communicates the scale of this conflict, and allows us to see how mortal men and immortal elves would actual perceive each other and why beings with such different perspectives would actually want to keep each other at arms length.

I don't know how receptive the general audience would be to this sort of story.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Good post.

As far the time scale, it would be pretty cool/interesting to have the human characters re-cast in between seasons, and age by decades at a time, to really show the passage of time. Elves would obviously remain unchanged.

So if one of our main human characters is a young adult in S1, they could be in their 50's in S2.
Atreides Ornithopter
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Good post.

As far the time scale, it would be pretty cool/interesting to have the human characters re-cast in between seasons, and age by decades at a time, to really show the passage of time. Elves would obviously remain unchanged.

So if one of our main human characters is a young adult in S1, they could be in their 50's in S2.
So The Crown
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Good post.

As far the time scale, it would be pretty cool/interesting to have the human characters re-cast in between seasons, and age by decades at a time, to really show the passage of time. Elves would obviously remain unchanged.

So if one of our main human characters is a young adult in S1, they could be in their 50's in S2.
Yeah.

It definitely would "show" how men can grow to become jealous of elves, rather than simply tell through some exposition or narration that "these pretty people with the pointy ears are immortal, mkay?"

Besides, we should see the perspectives of both sides:

  • Men, being mortal, want to act while we're strong but can act too soon or rashly. Elves, being immortal, are willing to wait and play the long game, but can wait too long.
  • Men are far more willing to take risks and even sacrifice themself for the cause. Elves can marvel at how beings with so little life will willingly give it away for others.

I saw this quote on a reddit a few months ago regarding the differences between elves and men:

Men may drink the full cup of life before they die, build works which will last for generations and triumphs which will echo down the ages. When they die they may feel regret for the paths not tread, or the victories not gained, but they will have peace in the end. It is the lot of men to die young but perhaps not with regret. They have hope for more beyond death and outside of the world.

Elves can never stop drinking the cup of live. They will build works beyond the understanding of men, but in the end will live to see all of their works and triumphs ground to dust by time. To feel sorrow for those times and places lost to them. To feel it so keenly that never again will they seek to create something new as in the end those works to will fade before their creators. Only in the uttermost West are elves given any reprieve from the winds of time, but that to will be broken along with the rest world in the end. It is the lot of elves to find sorrow, and know regret forever until the world ends....


All in all, I want this show to demonstrate why elves are generally so sad and passive in LOTR. As a race and culture, they should be ground down by the end of it, with the Last Alliance essentially being a Pyrrhic victory for their race.
DVC2010
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I'm sure you get this a lot, but username checks out.
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DVC2010 said:

I'm sure you get this a lot, but username checks out.



powerbelly
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I don't know about the general audience, but this tolkien nerd would love it.
redline248
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I can't remember anything, apparently. Are the simarils still a part of the world in the 2nd age? Or are they already lost, by then?
Solo Tetherball Champ
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redline248 said:

I can't remember anything, apparently. Are the simarils still a part of the world in the 2nd age? Or are they already lost, by then?
The Silmarils are lost:

  • One is in the sky (The vial of Galadriel contains some captured light from that star, I mean Silmaril)
  • One was cast into the ocean
  • One was thrown into a fissure in the earth (a common theory is people think the Arkenstone is a Silmaril. It's not)

I think they're supposed to reappear in the last battle, or maybe its an earlier version of the last battle that Tolkien discarded. When you start getting into the unpublished work, you run into that problem a lot: "I like this version, but Tolkien apparently began a totally different draft of the tale that that supersedes it...."
redline248
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I remembered 2 of 3 (forgot about the one cast into the earth). Just didn't remember when it all happened.
tallgrant
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Just to expand a little, one Silmaril was recovered by Beren and Luthien, passed down to Earendil, and set in the sky just before the final battle with Morgoth which closed the First Age. The other two were recovered from Morgoth's crown after he was defeated, and the two remaining sons of Feanor committed the final Elf Kinslaying to take them.

1. The Silmaril in the sky is actually being worn on the head of Elrond's father Earendil, as he pilots his ship in the heavens.
2. The Silmaril in the ocean was thrown there by Maglor, a son of Feanor, who was a renowned singer and wandered the shore after mourning its loss. It burned his hands due to the evil deeds he performed, hence his need to discard it.
3. The Silmaril in the earth went in with Maedhros.It burned his hands due to the evil he deeds he performed, and he threw himself into a fissure in despair and took it down with him.


redline248
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Jealousy drove the elves to so much pain and destruction
DVC2010
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Yes, but two of them have been recovered.
Al Bula
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DVC2010 said:

Yes, but two of them have been recovered.
that is amazing.
redline248
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Ocean Of Funk said:

DVC2010 said:

Yes, but two of them have been recovered.
that is amazing.
That author is a true genius.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Going straight into the daily rotation.
Solo Tetherball Champ
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DVC2010 said:

Yes, but two of them have been recovered.

This is great!
DallasTeleAg
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Going through YouTube and saw this popup. For anyone who never read the books, this is the scene where Sauron's forces break down the gates of Minas Tirith with Grond. Also worth listening to is the Ride of the Rohirrim at 4:14:00. These were some of the most epic scenes in the book. Definitely had more weight than in the movies. I don't know why Jackso didn't film the gate scene exactly as it was in the books. Also, Theoden in the movies was great and all, but Theoden of the books was an even greater king.

 
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