If the vaccine could do this, couldn't Covid do it as well? TIA for any explaining.amercer said:
" Furthermore, a recent study showed that SARS-CoV-2 RNA can be reverse-transcribed and integrated into the genome of human cells."
I doubt either happens with any regularity. The paper showing that Covid-19 gets into the genome is controversial, and no one has shown any evidence outside of cell lines. Actual retroviruses have to carry around a lot of machinery to convert their genomes to DNA and integrate into host chromosomes. The chances of that happening to a random bit of RNA in a healthy cell is basically zero.
Yeah, I disagree with him on that, but I also have the capability to read the entire thing and see the logic and science in much of it. I'm not going to dismiss the whole thing because of that. YMMV, of course, but I throw it out there because he does do a thorough job of answering those articles.TheMasterplan said:
Lab leak theory is still a legit theory whether or not the OP is BS.
The author of rebuttal loses credibility that way. It's incredibly hard to read that unhinged blog post.
94chem said:If the vaccine could do this, couldn't Covid do it as well? TIA for any explaining.amercer said:
" Furthermore, a recent study showed that SARS-CoV-2 RNA can be reverse-transcribed and integrated into the genome of human cells."
I doubt either happens with any regularity. The paper showing that Covid-19 gets into the genome is controversial, and no one has shown any evidence outside of cell lines. Actual retroviruses have to carry around a lot of machinery to convert their genomes to DNA and integrate into host chromosomes. The chances of that happening to a random bit of RNA in a healthy cell is basically zero.
Remember that the lab leak theory isn't a binary debate.TheMasterplan said:
Lab leak theory is still a legit theory whether or not the OP is BS.
The author of rebuttal loses credibility that way. It's incredibly hard to read that unhinged blog post.
94chem said:
Also, nobody would have released it on purpose from WUHAN. Would require quite an elaborate conspiracy for that to make sense.
Kind of like the chances of healthy person under 40 dying of COVID?amercer said:
" Furthermore, a recent study showed that SARS-CoV-2 RNA can be reverse-transcribed and integrated into the genome of human cells."
I doubt either happens with any regularity. The paper showing that Covid-19 gets into the genome is controversial, and no one has shown any evidence outside of cell lines. Actual retroviruses have to carry around a lot of machinery to convert their genomes to DNA and integrate into host chromosomes. The chances of that happening to a random bit of RNA in a healthy cell is basically zero.
I understand that viral RNA often does have the potential to do this.amercer said:
" Furthermore, a recent study showed that SARS-CoV-2 RNA can be reverse-transcribed and integrated into the genome of human cells."
I doubt either happens with any regularity. The paper showing that Covid-19 gets into the genome is controversial, and no one has shown any evidence outside of cell lines. Actual retroviruses have to carry around a lot of machinery to convert their genomes to DNA and integrate into host chromosomes. The chances of that happening to a random bit of RNA in a healthy cell is basically zero.
It would be an interesting mathematical exercise to think of how this grew over the very, very long arc of human existence. I read once that the oldest detectable retrovirus dates back almost 450 Million years if that is to be believed.Quote:
I understand that viral RNA often does have the potential to do this.
Don't forget that something like 8% of our DNA (with individual variations) is from viruses. Borna virus DNA is apparently very common in human DNA. And apparently quite a few have poliovirus DNA.
woodlees said:
I regularly attend scientific seminars at our medical school with some world class molecular biologists that I know and respect, some of whom we have collaborated with.
When the issue of SARS CoV mRNA integration into the human genome following reverse transcription issue first came up, there was some discussion. Basically there was no one who believed it was even remotely possible in normal human cell populations. The discussion was very brief, and basically the experts scoffed at the idea. Nobody advocated for the possibility that RNA vaccines can lead to genomic integration.
Of note, the article is published in an on line journal with a low impact factor. We have already seen very poor quality articles published in the COVID era, only to subsequently be forced into retraction upon academic discussion in the broader scientific community. I suspect this article may well meet a similar fate
The sad thing about this is that these types of pseudoscience issues just will not die on the internet largely because of individuals from the lay public just cannot understand the science and appear to be bent on advancing a false agenda.
There is a process called horizontal gene transfer or lateral gene transfer that can result in genes from one species being transferred into members of another species. It does appear to be uncommon.Windy City Ag said:It would be an interesting mathematical exercise to think of how this grew over the very, very long arc of human existence. I read once that the oldest detectable retrovirus dates back almost 450 Million years if that is to be believed.Quote:
I understand that viral RNA often does have the potential to do this.
Don't forget that something like 8% of our DNA (with individual variations) is from viruses. Borna virus DNA is apparently very common in human DNA. And apparently quite a few have poliovirus DNA.
Given the sheer number of viruses endured by human kind and its predecessors, it makes any sort of retrovirus activity look very uncommon.
I sort of agree with this sentiment but more emphasis on "studied" actually leaning closer to "altered"94chem said:Remember that the lab leak theory isn't a binary debate.TheMasterplan said:
Lab leak theory is still a legit theory whether or not the OP is BS.
The author of rebuttal loses credibility that way. It's incredibly hard to read that unhinged blog post.
Covid very well could have been natural in origin, but studied in the lab, and escaped due to lax protocols. That's my theory. Andromeda Strain, Demon in the Freezer, The Hot Zone...on top of that, I work in a chemistry lab, and the scenarios are countless as to how biological agents can "get loose" from containment.
Add that the Huh7 cells are derived from liver carcinoma.Windy City Ag said:
The rebuttals I have seen are pretty wonky and tend to bash folks as clueless anti-vaxxers. They contain a few good points.
1) Study is In Vitro So already suspect and likely useless
2) The experiment was rigged to force this output using doses and steps that would never occur in any sort of real world vaccine process
3) The Huh7 cells used for the process are derived from cancer cells rather than somatic cells so again suspect
4) The part about the RNA actually reversing back into the DNA was just speculation on the part of the authors. They couldn't actually show that happening.
NEW PFIZER DOCS. DUMP
— Sam Black RN (@SamBlackRN) May 5, 2022
This is what we’ve seen so far:
🔹️Pfizer’s trials show that natural immunity is 100% effective
🔹️Decrease in white blood cells were observed after dose 1, (immune system attack)
🔹️Adverse events were MORE SEVERE in the younger age group. pic.twitter.com/vAShUNSLvc
