Double-blind study shows ivermectin reduces disease's duration

4,848 Views | 33 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by NewOldAg
samurai_science
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Double-blind study shows ivermectin reduces disease's duration and infectiousness

Ivermectin, a drug used to fight parasites in third-world countries, could help reduce the length of infection for people who contract coronavirus for less than a $1 a day, according to recent research by Sheba Medical Center in Tel Hashomer.



https://www.jpost.com/health-science/israeli-scientist-says-covid-19-could-be-treated-for-under-1day-675612
Aggie95
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AG
you're not a horse....you are not a cow [/fda]
Tavares19
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AG
You know what else reduces disease duration and infectiousness? The vaccine. And that one costs even less than $1 a day
TarponChaser
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Tavares19 said:

You know what else reduces disease duration and infectiousness? The vaccine. And that one costs even less than $1 a day

You mean the vaccines that the CDC says allows the vaccinated to transmit covid at the same rate as the unvaccinated? Can't have it both ways.
General Omar
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Not taking anything away from the vaccines, but they have cost the taxpayers BILLIONS. Ivermectin is an inexpensive treatment, and prophylactic now with solid double blind studies and meta-analyses to back up its efficacy in the prevention and treatment of Covid-19.
General Omar '79
Tavares19
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AG
TarponChaser said:

Tavares19 said:

You know what else reduces disease duration and infectiousness? The vaccine. And that one costs even less than $1 a day

You mean the vaccines that the CDC says allows the vaccinated to transmit covid at the same rate as the unvaccinated? Can't have it both ways.
Lots of literature out there that vaccinated are sick for a much shorter period of time and infectious for a shorter period of time. You're mistaking peak viral titers for length of infection
CDub06
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AG
TarponChaser said:

Tavares19 said:

You know what else reduces disease duration and infectiousness? The vaccine. And that one costs even less than $1 a day

You mean the vaccines that the CDC says allows the vaccinated to transmit covid at the same rate as the unvaccinated? Can't have it both ways.


Vaccinated transmit at a lower rate. Vaccinated are sick for less time. Vaccinated are hospitalized at a MUCH lower rate. Vaccinated die at a MUCH lower rate.

Where's the problem?
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Zobel
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AG
Those results are believable.
CDub06
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AG
The vaccine provides significant protection against alpha and some protection against delta. Fewer vaccinated people contracting = fewer transmitting.

Tons of studies show that vaccinated people carry a viral load for a shorter period of time, therefore they're contagious for a shorter period of time.

Recent study shows that even in breakthrough delta infections, the vaccinated folks have a significantly less culturable virus and therefore less infectious.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.20.21262158v1

Vaccinated people by all accounts are transmitting the virus less than unvaccinated, even in breakthrough delta cases.
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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TarponChaser said:

CDub06 said:

TarponChaser said:

Tavares19 said:

You know what else reduces disease duration and infectiousness? The vaccine. And that one costs even less than $1 a day

You mean the vaccines that the CDC says allows the vaccinated to transmit covid at the same rate as the unvaccinated? Can't have it both ways.


Vaccinated transmit at a lower rate. Vaccinated are sick for less time. Vaccinated are hospitalized at a MUCH lower rate. Vaccinated die at a MUCH lower rate.

Where's the problem?

Vaccinated do not transmit at a lower rate. Or did you miss those statements that the vaccinated transmit at the same rate as the un-vaccinated?
Where are you getting your Information? I have seen you make this claim numerous times without any source. The CDC has said no such thing. Yes, you can still transmit COVID if you are vaccinated, however, you are less likely to get infected, less likely to have severe disease, and presumably less likely to be as infectious as someone who is unvaccinated, on average.

Just because they have recommended vaccinated individuals mask up again does not mean vaccinated individuals are just as likely to transmit as unvaccinated, it just means that vaccinated individuals still can transmit the virus.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
TarponChaser
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CDub06 said:

The vaccine provides significant protection against alpha and some protection against delta. Fewer vaccinated people contracting = fewer transmitting.

Tons of studies show that vaccinated people carry a viral load for a shorter period of time, therefore they're contagious for a shorter period of time.

Recent study shows that even in breakthrough delta infections, the vaccinated folks have a significantly less culturable virus and therefore less infectious.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.20.21262158v1

Vaccinated people by all accounts are transmitting the virus less than unvaccinated, even in breakthrough delta cases.
Don't tell me, tell the CDC. They're the ones saying it. I'm just parroting their statements.
CDub06
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AG
The possible therapy we're talking about doesn't offer those advantages of the vaccine. And receiving the vaccine doesn't mean you can't use ivermectin if needed. But if you're unvaccinated and need ivermectin, it's too late for the vaccine.
Zobel
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AG
Only point to the OP - doesn't say reduces disease duration, it reduces the time to a certain viral load. They didn't look for or report anything about symptoms.

There may be a correlation between time to a certain viral load and symptoms. There may not be. And this trial is real small for sure.

Need more info. Fortunately larger trials are ongoing.

If ivermectin works, it seems like something like tamiflu would be the expectation.
terradactylexpress
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Also finished in January, so not delta
TarponChaser
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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

TarponChaser said:

CDub06 said:

TarponChaser said:

Tavares19 said:

You know what else reduces disease duration and infectiousness? The vaccine. And that one costs even less than $1 a day

You mean the vaccines that the CDC says allows the vaccinated to transmit covid at the same rate as the unvaccinated? Can't have it both ways.


Vaccinated transmit at a lower rate. Vaccinated are sick for less time. Vaccinated are hospitalized at a MUCH lower rate. Vaccinated die at a MUCH lower rate.

Where's the problem?

Vaccinated do not transmit at a lower rate. Or did you miss those statements that the vaccinated transmit at the same rate as the un-vaccinated?
Where are you getting your Information? I have seen you make this claim numerous times without any source. The CDC has said no such thing. Yes, you can still transmit COVID if you are vaccinated, however, you are less likely to get infected, less likely to have severe disease, and presumably less likely to be as infectious as someone who is unvaccinated, on average.

Just because they have recommended vaccinated individuals mask up again does not mean vaccinated individuals are just as likely to transmit as unvaccinated, it just means that vaccinated individuals still can transmit the virus.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html
Right here: https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/new-data-on-covid-19-transmission-by-vaccinated-individuals

And again here: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html

Yes, vaccinated tend to be "contagious" for a shorter period of time but they're carrying similar viral loads and spreading at the same rate.



Zobel
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AG
One thing. That viral load is based on PCR, but similar PCR loads don't tell you whether those viruses are viable or not. You'll be positive on PCR while you're still shedding nonviable virus. Not clear whether the same viral load from vaccinated and unvaccinated represent the same infectiousness. I don't think anyone knows that for sure either way.
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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Neither source supports your claims here. Both state vaccinated individuals with breakthrough cases are contagious for shorter periods of time, and vaccinated individuals are significantly less likely to be infected. Common sense would then dictate that this means vaccinated individuals are much less likely to transmit the virus. Can't spread a virus if you never become infected.

Yeah, if you have a symptomatic breakthrough case, you should assume you are just as contagious as someone who is unvaccinated, but that should be common sense, too.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
SharkinAg
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AG
TarponChaser said:

CDub06 said:

The vaccine provides significant protection against alpha and some protection against delta. Fewer vaccinated people contracting = fewer transmitting.

Tons of studies show that vaccinated people carry a viral load for a shorter period of time, therefore they're contagious for a shorter period of time.

Recent study shows that even in breakthrough delta infections, the vaccinated folks have a significantly less culturable virus and therefore less infectious.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.20.21262158v1

Vaccinated people by all accounts are transmitting the virus less than unvaccinated, even in breakthrough delta cases.
Don't tell me, tell the CDC. They're the ones saying it. I'm just parroting their statements.


Your chances of understanding these things are the equivalent you landing a tarpon after hooking it. Sorry but I had to say it.
TheMasterplan
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Zobel said:

Only point to the OP - doesn't say reduces disease duration, it reduces the time to a certain viral load. They didn't look for or report anything about symptoms.

There may be a correlation between time to a certain viral load and symptoms. There may not be. And this trial is real small for sure.

Need more info. Fortunately larger trials are ongoing.

If ivermectin works, it seems like something like tamiflu would be the expectation.
You're a reasonable level headed poster.
woodlandsderm
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SharkinAg...... This. Some people just have to be the contrarian even if they don't understand the premise completely. If Ivermectin works, and I know every doctor hopes a cheap and readily available drug works, it still doesn't take away the need to reduce POPULATION based spread of COVID-19.
Banks Monkey
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AG
samurai_texan said:

Double-blind study shows ivermectin reduces disease's duration and infectiousness

Ivermectin, a drug used to fight parasites in third-world countries, could help reduce the length of infection for people who contract coronavirus for less than a $1 a day, according to recent research by Sheba Medical Center in Tel Hashomer.



https://www.jpost.com/health-science/israeli-scientist-says-covid-19-could-be-treated-for-under-1day-675612
Cool story brah. Now look up how many idiots are calling poison control centers after taking that animal drug.
Ag_of_08
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AG
Ivermectin is approved for use in humans. Idiots taking too much and not for human use is not relevant to the discussion of its use.
Ranger222
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AG
I will never understand the Ivermectin craze.

Ivermectin cannot work as an antiviral. Pharmacologically it doesn't make sense and hasn't from the very beginning. Let me explain:

Ivermectin's potential use for COVID-19 began when a group showed that IN TISSUE CULTURE (not even an animal study) SARS-COV-2 viral replication was inhibited 50% at a dose of 2 uM.

On the surface, sounds great. We should pursue it. Here are the issues --

The 2 uM concentration is 35x HIGHER than the maximum plasma concentration your body would have after oral administration of the approved dose of ivermectin. Even if you took 10X the approved oral dose, you STILL would not reach the 2 uM concentration the original study used. The amount that you have in your body after taking Ivermection orally is 0.0873 uM, not even close to the original 2 uM used.


Quote:

Caly et al.1 reported that ivermectin inhibited severe acute respiratory syndrome-coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) in vitro for up to 48 hours using ivermectin at 5 M. The concentration resulting in 50% inhibition (IC50 ; 2 M) was > 35 higher than the maximum plasma concentration (Cmax ) after oral administration of the approved dose of ivermectin when given fasted. Simulations were conducted using an available population pharmacokinetic model to predict total (bound and unbound) and unbound plasma concentration-time profiles after a single and repeat fasted administration of the approved dose of ivermectin (200 g/kg), 60 mg, and 120 mg. Plasma total Cmax was determined and then multiplied by the lung:plasma ratio reported in cattle to predict the lung Cmax after administration of each single dose. Plasma ivermectin concentrations of total (bound and unbound) and unbound concentrations do not reach the IC50 , even for a dose level 10 higher than the approved dose. Even with the high lung:plasma ratio, ivermectin is unlikely to reach the IC50 in the lungs after single oral administration of the approved dose (predicted lung: 0.0873 M) or at doses 10 higher that the approved dose administered orally (predicted lung: 0.820 M). In summary, the likelihood of a successful clinical trial using the approved dose of ivermectin is low. Combination therapy should be evaluated in vitro. Repurposing drugs for use in coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) treatment is an ideal strategy but is only feasible when product safety has been established and experiments of repurposed drugs are conducted at clinically relevant concentrations.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32378737/

To top it off, in Virology when we are trying to discover new antivirals, we use IC90 as a standard. This equates to 10-fold reduction in amount of viral particles. The original study didn't even use IC90, but instead IC50 (50% reduction). On the surface 50% might seem large, but not when you are dealing with numbers on a log scale like the millions of viral particles your body produces during viral infection.

The IC90 is usually 10X the IC50 -- this is true for most inhibitors. To get to the IC90 for ivermectin using the data the original study found, you would come out to 20 uM final concentration of the drug needed in your lungs to show an effect. Again, that is 250X the normal dose administered orally.

It has never made sense as a real therapy, and why many ignored the data when it came out. This wasn't a cover-up or 'Big Pharma' ignoring the cheap therapeutic they couldn't profit from. It simply doesn't work.

If anyone is saying they've seen ivermectin work, its the placebo effect playing out without a large enough sample size.
Fat Black Swan
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AG
Zobel said:

One thing. That viral load is based on PCR, but similar PCR loads don't tell you whether those viruses are viable or not. You'll be positive on PCR while you're still shedding nonviable virus. Not clear whether the same viral load from vaccinated and unvaccinated represent the same infectiousness. I don't think anyone knows that for sure either way.


Wasn't that what this study showed?

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v3.full-text

Quote:

While a given Ct value cannot be used to infer infectiousness, previous studies suggested that infectious SARS-CoV-2 can frequently be recovered from specimens with Ct values of 25-30 or lower [5]. To determine whether high viral loads might indicate the presence of infectious SARS-CoV-2, we attempted to culture infectious virus from a subset of 55 specimens with Ct values <25 (Figure 2). Infectious SARS-CoV-2 was isolated from 14 of 16 specimens (88%) from unvaccinated individuals and 37 of 39 specimens (95%) from vaccinated people, suggesting that Ct <25 is frequently associated with the capacity to shed infectious SARS-CoV-2, even in fully vaccinated persons.

Zobel
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AG
Indeed it does. Nice find thanks.
KidDoc
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Ranger222 said:

I will never understand the Ivermectin craze.

Ivermectin cannot work as an antiviral. Pharmacologically it doesn't make sense and hasn't from the very beginning. Let me explain:

Ivermectin's potential use for COVID-19 began when a group showed that IN TISSUE CULTURE (not even an animal study) SARS-COV-2 viral replication was inhibited 50% at a dose of 2 uM.

On the surface, sounds great. We should pursue it. Here are the issues --

The 2 uM concentration is 35x HIGHER than the maximum plasma concentration your body would have after oral administration of the approved dose of ivermectin. Even if you took 10X the approved oral dose, you STILL would not reach the 2 uM concentration the original study used. The amount that you have in your body after taking Ivermection orally is 0.0873 uM, not even close to the original 2 uM used.


Quote:

Caly et al.1 reported that ivermectin inhibited severe acute respiratory syndrome-coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) in vitro for up to 48 hours using ivermectin at 5 M. The concentration resulting in 50% inhibition (IC50 ; 2 M) was > 35 higher than the maximum plasma concentration (Cmax ) after oral administration of the approved dose of ivermectin when given fasted. Simulations were conducted using an available population pharmacokinetic model to predict total (bound and unbound) and unbound plasma concentration-time profiles after a single and repeat fasted administration of the approved dose of ivermectin (200 g/kg), 60 mg, and 120 mg. Plasma total Cmax was determined and then multiplied by the lung:plasma ratio reported in cattle to predict the lung Cmax after administration of each single dose. Plasma ivermectin concentrations of total (bound and unbound) and unbound concentrations do not reach the IC50 , even for a dose level 10 higher than the approved dose. Even with the high lung:plasma ratio, ivermectin is unlikely to reach the IC50 in the lungs after single oral administration of the approved dose (predicted lung: 0.0873 M) or at doses 10 higher that the approved dose administered orally (predicted lung: 0.820 M). In summary, the likelihood of a successful clinical trial using the approved dose of ivermectin is low. Combination therapy should be evaluated in vitro. Repurposing drugs for use in coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) treatment is an ideal strategy but is only feasible when product safety has been established and experiments of repurposed drugs are conducted at clinically relevant concentrations.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32378737/

To top it off, in Virology when we are trying to discover new antivirals, we use IC90 as a standard. This equates to 10-fold reduction in amount of viral particles. The original study didn't even use IC90, but instead IC50 (50% reduction). On the surface 50% might seem large, but not when you are dealing with numbers on a log scale like the millions of viral particles your body produces during viral infection.

The IC90 is usually 10X the IC50 -- this is true for most inhibitors. To get to the IC90 for ivermectin using the data the original study found, you would come out to 20 uM final concentration of the drug needed in your lungs to show an effect. Again, that is 250X the normal dose administered orally.

It has never made sense as a real therapy, and why many ignored the data when it came out. This wasn't a cover-up or 'Big Pharma' ignoring the cheap therapeutic they couldn't profit from. It simply doesn't work.

If anyone is saying they've seen ivermectin work, its the placebo effect playing out without a large enough sample size.
The linked study disagrees with your excellent and logical argument and it is a very good (although small) study. This happens in medicine. Sometimes stuff works for reasons we don't really understand.

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
plain_o_llama
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Some of the original interest in Ivermectin resulted from the observation that some countries in Africa were not having the same experience as other countries. Some suggested Ivermectin which is used widely and prophylactically against some endemic parasitic conditions might be key to explaining this difference.



COVID-19: The Ivermectin African Enigma
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33795896/

Why COVID-19 is not so spread in Africa: How does Ivermectin affect it?
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.26.21254377v1.full

There was similar interest in the BCG vaccine early on to explain the differences between various countries.
I believe those differences went away or were explained away.
The Big12Ag
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General Omar said:

Not taking anything away from the vaccines, but they have cost the taxpayers BILLIONS. Ivermectin is an inexpensive treatment, and prophylactic now with solid double blind studies and meta-analyses to back up its efficacy in the prevention and treatment of Covid-19.
Are you suggesting the money should not have been invested in vaccines? I don't recall ivermectin having been identified as a viable treatment prior to the massive investment in vaccines which began nearly a year ago.

While the FDA has not approved ivermectin as a Covid preventative or therapeutic, therefore some might deem it experimental, it has been used by hundreds of millions of humans for other purposes. Provided you are using it in the human approved way, and ideally not from Tractor Supply, then I don't see the harm in it either. But I don't think we knew about ivermectin effectiveness prior to vaccine development, and vaccines for viruses has been a thing for over one hundred years - of course we were going to invest in it.

When reading about HCQ or Ivermectin, or anything that previously existed but theorized as effective against Covid, I like reading studies or articles that were put out PRE Covid, so it's less, uh, influenced. Here is something from 2011 on ivermectin: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/ . Ivermectin was approved for human use in 1987.
eric76
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AG
The Big12Ag said:

General Omar said:

Not taking anything away from the vaccines, but they have cost the taxpayers BILLIONS. Ivermectin is an inexpensive treatment, and prophylactic now with solid double blind studies and meta-analyses to back up its efficacy in the prevention and treatment of Covid-19.
Are you suggesting the money should not have been invested in vaccines? I don't recall ivermectin having been identified as a viable treatment prior to the massive investment in vaccines which began nearly a year ago.

While the FDA has not approved ivermectin as a Covid preventative or therapeutic, therefore some might deem it experimental, it has been used by hundreds of millions of humans for other purposes. Provided you are using it in the human approved way, and ideally not from Tractor Supply, then I don't see the harm in it either. But I don't think we knew about ivermectin effectiveness prior to vaccine development, and vaccines for viruses has been a thing for over one hundred years - of course we were going to invest in it.

When reading about HCQ or Ivermectin, or anything that previously existed but theorized as effective against Covid, I like reading studies or articles that were put out PRE Covid, so it's less, uh, influenced. Here is something from 2011 on ivermectin: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/ . Ivermectin was approved for human use in 1987.
There are some news stories that say that Ivermectin may cause liver damage. It will be interesting to see if these are true. Out of caution, if I was taking Ivermectin on an on-going basis, I'd probably at least ask the doctor about the need for frequent liver tests.

Has Ivermectin been tested for safety when used by humans on a regular basis?
TarponChaser
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eric76 said:

The Big12Ag said:

General Omar said:

Not taking anything away from the vaccines, but they have cost the taxpayers BILLIONS. Ivermectin is an inexpensive treatment, and prophylactic now with solid double blind studies and meta-analyses to back up its efficacy in the prevention and treatment of Covid-19.
Are you suggesting the money should not have been invested in vaccines? I don't recall ivermectin having been identified as a viable treatment prior to the massive investment in vaccines which began nearly a year ago.

While the FDA has not approved ivermectin as a Covid preventative or therapeutic, therefore some might deem it experimental, it has been used by hundreds of millions of humans for other purposes. Provided you are using it in the human approved way, and ideally not from Tractor Supply, then I don't see the harm in it either. But I don't think we knew about ivermectin effectiveness prior to vaccine development, and vaccines for viruses has been a thing for over one hundred years - of course we were going to invest in it.

When reading about HCQ or Ivermectin, or anything that previously existed but theorized as effective against Covid, I like reading studies or articles that were put out PRE Covid, so it's less, uh, influenced. Here is something from 2011 on ivermectin: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/ . Ivermectin was approved for human use in 1987.
There are some news stories that say that Ivermectin may cause liver damage. It will be interesting to see if these are true. Out of caution, if I was taking Ivermectin on an on-going basis, I'd probably at least ask the doctor about the need for frequent liver tests.

Has Ivermectin been tested for safety when used by humans on a regular basis?

Yes.

35 years ago.

It's been approved for human use for a long, long time and no history of liver damage within prescribed dosages.
eric76
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AG
TarponChaser said:

eric76 said:

The Big12Ag said:

General Omar said:

Not taking anything away from the vaccines, but they have cost the taxpayers BILLIONS. Ivermectin is an inexpensive treatment, and prophylactic now with solid double blind studies and meta-analyses to back up its efficacy in the prevention and treatment of Covid-19.
Are you suggesting the money should not have been invested in vaccines? I don't recall ivermectin having been identified as a viable treatment prior to the massive investment in vaccines which began nearly a year ago.

While the FDA has not approved ivermectin as a Covid preventative or therapeutic, therefore some might deem it experimental, it has been used by hundreds of millions of humans for other purposes. Provided you are using it in the human approved way, and ideally not from Tractor Supply, then I don't see the harm in it either. But I don't think we knew about ivermectin effectiveness prior to vaccine development, and vaccines for viruses has been a thing for over one hundred years - of course we were going to invest in it.

When reading about HCQ or Ivermectin, or anything that previously existed but theorized as effective against Covid, I like reading studies or articles that were put out PRE Covid, so it's less, uh, influenced. Here is something from 2011 on ivermectin: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/ . Ivermectin was approved for human use in 1987.
There are some news stories that say that Ivermectin may cause liver damage. It will be interesting to see if these are true. Out of caution, if I was taking Ivermectin on an on-going basis, I'd probably at least ask the doctor about the need for frequent liver tests.

Has Ivermectin been tested for safety when used by humans on a regular basis?

Yes.

35 years ago.

It's been approved for human use for a long, long time and no history of liver damage within prescribed dosages.
There have been rare cases of people suffering liver damage attributed to ivermectin.

It seems like the only place reporting significant problems with it is in South Africa. I don't know if they can rule out other potential causes for the observed liver damage, though.
Ranger222
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AG
KidDoc said:

Ranger222 said:

I will never understand the Ivermectin craze.

Ivermectin cannot work as an antiviral. Pharmacologically it doesn't make sense and hasn't from the very beginning. Let me explain:

Ivermectin's potential use for COVID-19 began when a group showed that IN TISSUE CULTURE (not even an animal study) SARS-COV-2 viral replication was inhibited 50% at a dose of 2 uM.

On the surface, sounds great. We should pursue it. Here are the issues --

The 2 uM concentration is 35x HIGHER than the maximum plasma concentration your body would have after oral administration of the approved dose of ivermectin. Even if you took 10X the approved oral dose, you STILL would not reach the 2 uM concentration the original study used. The amount that you have in your body after taking Ivermection orally is 0.0873 uM, not even close to the original 2 uM used.


Quote:

Caly et al.1 reported that ivermectin inhibited severe acute respiratory syndrome-coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) in vitro for up to 48 hours using ivermectin at 5 M. The concentration resulting in 50% inhibition (IC50 ; 2 M) was > 35 higher than the maximum plasma concentration (Cmax ) after oral administration of the approved dose of ivermectin when given fasted. Simulations were conducted using an available population pharmacokinetic model to predict total (bound and unbound) and unbound plasma concentration-time profiles after a single and repeat fasted administration of the approved dose of ivermectin (200 g/kg), 60 mg, and 120 mg. Plasma total Cmax was determined and then multiplied by the lung:plasma ratio reported in cattle to predict the lung Cmax after administration of each single dose. Plasma ivermectin concentrations of total (bound and unbound) and unbound concentrations do not reach the IC50 , even for a dose level 10 higher than the approved dose. Even with the high lung:plasma ratio, ivermectin is unlikely to reach the IC50 in the lungs after single oral administration of the approved dose (predicted lung: 0.0873 M) or at doses 10 higher that the approved dose administered orally (predicted lung: 0.820 M). In summary, the likelihood of a successful clinical trial using the approved dose of ivermectin is low. Combination therapy should be evaluated in vitro. Repurposing drugs for use in coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) treatment is an ideal strategy but is only feasible when product safety has been established and experiments of repurposed drugs are conducted at clinically relevant concentrations.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32378737/

To top it off, in Virology when we are trying to discover new antivirals, we use IC90 as a standard. This equates to 10-fold reduction in amount of viral particles. The original study didn't even use IC90, but instead IC50 (50% reduction). On the surface 50% might seem large, but not when you are dealing with numbers on a log scale like the millions of viral particles your body produces during viral infection.

The IC90 is usually 10X the IC50 -- this is true for most inhibitors. To get to the IC90 for ivermectin using the data the original study found, you would come out to 20 uM final concentration of the drug needed in your lungs to show an effect. Again, that is 250X the normal dose administered orally.

It has never made sense as a real therapy, and why many ignored the data when it came out. This wasn't a cover-up or 'Big Pharma' ignoring the cheap therapeutic they couldn't profit from. It simply doesn't work.

If anyone is saying they've seen ivermectin work, its the placebo effect playing out without a large enough sample size.
The linked study disagrees with your excellent and logical argument and it is a very good (although small) study. This happens in medicine. Sometimes stuff works for reasons we don't really understand.



While the data is not published yet, the together trail which is ran by researchers in Canada with the study being conducted on COVID-19 patients from Brazil , in a much larger (1500) patient population than the 89 person trial linked to in the OP, has concluded that ivermectin has no benefit.




Quote:

Ivermectin, the latest supposed treatment for COVID-19 being touted by anti-vaccination groups, had "no effect whatsoever" on the disease, according to a large patient study.

That's the conclusion of the Together Trial, which has subjected several purported nonvaccine treatments for COVID-19 to carefully designed clinical testing. The trial is supervised by McMaster University in Hamilton, Canada, and conducted in Brazil.

One of the trial's principal investigators, Edward Mills of McMaster, presented the results from the Ivermectin arms of the study at an Aug. 6 symposium sponsored by the National Institutes of Health.Among the 1,500 patients in the study, he said, Ivermectin showed "no effect whatsoever" on the trial's outcome goals whether patients required extended observation in the emergency room or hospitalization.

"In our specific trial," he said, "we do not see the treatment benefit that a lot of the advocates believe should have been" seen.


https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid


KidDoc
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AG
Good info thanks for sharing!
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NewOldAg
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AG
Found it elsewhere; thanks for posting!
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