There's no need for a vaccine if you've had the virus.

Also wrote a peer reviewed article on treating covid as soon as testing positive. Is very critical of current process

Mentions 80% heard immunity in Texas

Also Is a fighting Texas Aggie

This is why any chart showing only those vaccinated as progress to herd immunity are pure BS. We are so close this thing is basically over.

I still question his 80% herd immunity before the vaccines. I think we have a good portion but most seem to say 30-40%.

Would love to see how he gets there. This would assume a 0.002 death rate. Not saying he's wrong, but it certainly doesn't line up with most others.

On the death rate maybe he also tries to separate dying with covid from dying from covid? How deaths from the flu can go to zero is really hard to believe.

I question this only because of time. No one knows how this plays out until it plays out.

Time and evidence will be the key.

Good doctors, nurses and scientists putting in the Lords work!

Had my check up Friday and got all my blood work back. He tested me for the antibodies and I had them from my bout with the Rona back in Jan. As I posted in a different thread, he said that all the talk about vaccinated and those who had the virus as well needing to still mask is simply not true. We cannot easily pass the virus along. This seems to back that up. Agree that I am not sure we are at 80% but will say quite a few people I know have had the virus.

Now, if we only could make companies feel more comfortable in letting the vaccinated and those who have had the virus exempt from any measures like masking, but doubt it happens anytime soon. The governor dropping the mandate seems to have had a strange effect in that a lot of stores and retail in Collin Cnty have double downed on requiring masks even if I show them my vax card. Not that I expected any different regarding a vaccination card, just that before the governor dropped the mandate, some places were lax. Seems that Abbott riled up some folks just judging from the outcry after his presser from people regarding masks.

Capitol Ag said:

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Had my check up Friday and got all my blood work back. He tested me for the antibodies and I had them from my bout with the Rona back in Jan. As I posted in a different thread, he said that all the talk about vaccinated and those who had the virus as well needing to still mask is simply not true. We cannot easily pass the virus along. This seems to back that up. Agree that I am not sure we are at 80% but will say quite a few people I know have had the virus.

Now, if we only could make companies feel more comfortable in letting the vaccinated and those who have had the virus exempt from any measures like masking, but doubt it happens anytime soon. The governor dropping the mandate seems to have had a strange effect in that a lot of stores and retail in Collin Cnty have double downed on requiring masks even if I show them my vax card. Not that I expected any different regarding a vaccination card, just that before the governor dropped the mandate, some places were lax. Seems that Abbott riled up some folks just judging from the outcry after his presser from people regarding masks.

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So the only people at work wearing masks would be the young healthy ones?

94chem said:

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Capitol Ag said:

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Had my check up Friday and got all my blood work back. He tested me for the antibodies and I had them from my bout with the Rona back in Jan. As I posted in a different thread, he said that all the talk about vaccinated and those who had the virus as well needing to still mask is simply not true. We cannot easily pass the virus along. This seems to back that up. Agree that I am not sure we are at 80% but will say quite a few people I know have had the virus.

Now, if we only could make companies feel more comfortable in letting the vaccinated and those who have had the virus exempt from any measures like masking, but doubt it happens anytime soon. The governor dropping the mandate seems to have had a strange effect in that a lot of stores and retail in Collin Cnty have double downed on requiring masks even if I show them my vax card. Not that I expected any different regarding a vaccination card, just that before the governor dropped the mandate, some places were lax. Seems that Abbott riled up some folks just judging from the outcry after his presser from people regarding masks.

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So the only people at work wearing masks would be the young healthy ones?

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No. I'm young and very healthy. I qualified form the virus b/c I am on an immunosuppressant due to my ulcerative colitis. But healthy people can still pass the virus to others. So until they can vaccinate, they may decide to wear masks where required. Again, I am against mandates. Whether its the government or a private business. But we can always avoid the masking nazi businesses as it's their choice to mandate and our choice to not shop there. My solution: The vaccinated won't wear masks or socially distance etc. Same with those with antibodies from having Covid. But since that is harder to tell without a test, the vaccine card should be enough to make one exempt.

When discussing this with a retailer, they brought up the very good point that some will see it as unfair. But, I feel that we should be dangling the carrot of no more mandates to everyone who gets vaccinated to encourage vaccinations. Then, at least once enough are vaccinated, lift mandates for all, vaccinated or not. But the sooner we can get to that "herd immunity" the sooner the states and businesses still mandating can ease up on things. The absolute biggest mistake Fauci and CDC people are making is stating that the vaccine should continue to mask. They need acknowledge the science is not behind that and people are tired of all of this. Instead, encourage us by rewarding us for doing what they want.

friend of mine is a nurse and got Covid back in June. She wasn't hospitalized but had a rough go, including months-long respiratory issues. She has had several antibody tests since. Initially, she was testing positive for antibodies, but the last two anti-body tests have been negative.

She could very easily be an anomaly, but its not guaranteed to have lasting immunity.

There is more to durable immunity than the presence of antibodies.

please explain. Obviously, i'm not medical professional, so how does immunity work if no antibodies are present. Feel free to explain it like i'm 5.

Your body remembers the virus and produces active antibodies when exposed again

T cell memories activating.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/antibodies-t-cells-protect-against-sars-cov-2

It's certainly possible for a certain individual to get it twice. But it's unlikely, and it's even unlikelier it's a severe case the second time around. I'll never sell someone with a guarantee, however. But we will never move forward back to normality if people are waiting on every guarantee, because they don't exist. So you have to use the data you best have. You can likely estimate with a strong certainty that any given time, between antibodies and t cells, you could probably assume about 95% or even more out of everyone who has had it, has a strong immunity to it to prevent a severe second case and greatly reduce spread among those people.

thank you.

AggieOO said:

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please explain. Obviously, i'm not medical professional, so how does immunity work if no antibodies are present. Feel free to explain it like i'm 5.

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Think about it like this: the Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA vaccines and will not have antibodies but instead essentially teaches the body's cells to fight the virus if and when it enters the body. So those vaccinated won't have antibodies either unless they have the Johnson and Johnson which has the virus in it like a traditional vaccine, if I am not mistaken. Once the body knows how to fight a virus, one should be safe from a sever infection.

mRNA vaccines teach the body by creating antibodies (and T cells). It doesn't inject antibodies, but they still get created.

appreciate it everyone!

T-Cells are the key. It's been over 17 years since the first SARS and people are still showing signs of resistance.

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/07/28/immune-t-cells-may-offer-lasting-protection-against-covid-19/

ORAggieFan said:

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mRNA vaccines teach the body by creating antibodies (and T cells). It doesn't inject antibodies, but they still get created.

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Per my Doc, we won't see antibodies from the Pfizer/Moderna. Would from J&J. But I see what you mean. Maybe I misunderstood him on that.

Edit:

From CDC:

Quote:

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Will COVID-19 vaccines cause you to test positive on COVID-19 viral tests?
Vaccines currently in clinical trials in the United States won't cause you to test positive on viral tests, which are used to see if you have a current infection.

If your body develops an immune response, which is the goal of vaccination, there is a possibility you may test positive on some antibody tests. Antibody tests indicate you had a previous infection and that you may have some level of protection against the virus. Experts are currently looking at how COVID-19 vaccination may affect antibody testing results.
4 days ago

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Myths and Facts About Covid

Capitol Ag said:

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ORAggieFan said:

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mRNA vaccines teach the body by creating antibodies (and T cells). It doesn't inject antibodies, but they still get created.

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Per my Doc, we won't see antibodies from the Pfizer/Moderna. Would from J&J. But I see what you mean. Maybe I misunderstood him on that.

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Well, the CDC says otherwise: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/mrna-vaccine-basics.html

Quote:

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mRNA vaccines have strands of genetic material called mRNA inside a special coating. That coating protects the mRNA from enzymes in the body that would otherwise break it down. It also helps the mRNA enter the dendritic cells and macro****es in the lymph node near the vaccination site.
mRNA can most easily be described as instructions for the cell on how to make a piece of the "spike protein" that is unique to SARS-CoV-2. Since only part of the protein is made, it does not do any harm to the person vaccinated but it is antigenic.
After the piece of the spike protein is made, the cell breaks down the mRNA strand and disposes of them using enzymes in the cell. It is important to note that the mRNA strand never enters the cell's nucleus or affects genetic material. This information helps counter misinformation about how mRNA vaccines alter or modify someone's genetic makeup.
Once displayed on the cell surface, the protein or antigen causes the immune system to begin producing antibodies and activating T-cells to fight off what it thinks is an infection. These antibodies are specific to the SARS-CoV-2 virus, which means the immune system is primed to protect against future infection.

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ORAggieFan said:

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Capitol Ag said:

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ORAggieFan said:

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mRNA vaccines teach the body by creating antibodies (and T cells). It doesn't inject antibodies, but they still get created.

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Per my Doc, we won't see antibodies from the Pfizer/Moderna. Would from J&J. But I see what you mean. Maybe I misunderstood him on that.

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Well, the CDC says otherwise: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/mrna-vaccine-basics.html

Quote:

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mRNA vaccines have strands of genetic material called mRNA inside a special coating. That coating protects the mRNA from enzymes in the body that would otherwise break it down. It also helps the mRNA enter the dendritic cells and macro****es in the lymph node near the vaccination site.
mRNA can most easily be described as instructions for the cell on how to make a piece of the "spike protein" that is unique to SARS-CoV-2. Since only part of the protein is made, it does not do any harm to the person vaccinated but it is antigenic.
After the piece of the spike protein is made, the cell breaks down the mRNA strand and disposes of them using enzymes in the cell. It is important to note that the mRNA strand never enters the cell's nucleus or affects genetic material. This information helps counter misinformation about how mRNA vaccines alter or modify someone's genetic makeup.
Once displayed on the cell surface, the protein or antigen causes the immune system to begin producing antibodies and activating T-cells to fight off what it thinks is an infection. These antibodies are specific to the SARS-CoV-2 virus, which means the immune system is primed to protect against future infection.

---

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So does that immune system immediately start producing antibodies in reaction to the vaccine or is it taught how to produce them once the actual virus potentially makes it's way into one's system?

Capitol Ag said:

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ORAggieFan said:

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Capitol Ag said:

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ORAggieFan said:

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mRNA vaccines teach the body by creating antibodies (and T cells). It doesn't inject antibodies, but they still get created.

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Per my Doc, we won't see antibodies from the Pfizer/Moderna. Would from J&J. But I see what you mean. Maybe I misunderstood him on that.

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Well, the CDC says otherwise: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/mrna-vaccine-basics.html

Quote:

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mRNA vaccines have strands of genetic material called mRNA inside a special coating. That coating protects the mRNA from enzymes in the body that would otherwise break it down. It also helps the mRNA enter the dendritic cells and macro****es in the lymph node near the vaccination site.
mRNA can most easily be described as instructions for the cell on how to make a piece of the "spike protein" that is unique to SARS-CoV-2. Since only part of the protein is made, it does not do any harm to the person vaccinated but it is antigenic.
After the piece of the spike protein is made, the cell breaks down the mRNA strand and disposes of them using enzymes in the cell. It is important to note that the mRNA strand never enters the cell's nucleus or affects genetic material. This information helps counter misinformation about how mRNA vaccines alter or modify someone's genetic makeup.
Once displayed on the cell surface, the protein or antigen causes the immune system to begin producing antibodies and activating T-cells to fight off what it thinks is an infection. These antibodies are specific to the SARS-CoV-2 virus, which means the immune system is primed to protect against future infection.

---

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So does that immune system immediately start producing antibodies in reaction to the vaccine or is it taught how to produce them once the actual virus potentially makes it's way into one's system?

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Pretty sure it's immediate. It's the same reason the vaccine causes fevers/chills and other side affects. Your body thinks it is sick and learning to fight it.

Cepe said:

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T-Cells are the key. It's been over 17 years since the first SARS and people are still showing signs of resistance.

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/07/28/immune-t-cells-may-offer-lasting-protection-against-covid-19/

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This does not get Repeated near enough.

ORAggieFan said:

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Capitol Ag said:

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ORAggieFan said:

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Capitol Ag said:

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ORAggieFan said:

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mRNA vaccines teach the body by creating antibodies (and T cells). It doesn't inject antibodies, but they still get created.

---

Per my Doc, we won't see antibodies from the Pfizer/Moderna. Would from J&J. But I see what you mean. Maybe I misunderstood him on that.

---

Well, the CDC says otherwise: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/mrna-vaccine-basics.html

Quote:

---

mRNA vaccines have strands of genetic material called mRNA inside a special coating. That coating protects the mRNA from enzymes in the body that would otherwise break it down. It also helps the mRNA enter the dendritic cells and macro****es in the lymph node near the vaccination site.
mRNA can most easily be described as instructions for the cell on how to make a piece of the "spike protein" that is unique to SARS-CoV-2. Since only part of the protein is made, it does not do any harm to the person vaccinated but it is antigenic.
After the piece of the spike protein is made, the cell breaks down the mRNA strand and disposes of them using enzymes in the cell. It is important to note that the mRNA strand never enters the cell's nucleus or affects genetic material. This information helps counter misinformation about how mRNA vaccines alter or modify someone's genetic makeup.
Once displayed on the cell surface, the protein or antigen causes the immune system to begin producing antibodies and activating T-cells to fight off what it thinks is an infection. These antibodies are specific to the SARS-CoV-2 virus, which means the immune system is primed to protect against future infection.

---

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So does that immune system immediately start producing antibodies in reaction to the vaccine or is it taught how to produce them once the actual virus potentially makes it's way into one's system?

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Pretty sure it's immediate. It's the same reason the vaccine causes fevers/chills and other side affects. Your body thinks it is sick and learning to fight it.

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The way all of these different mechanisms work is basically the same

Through one of three means 1)nanolipids (mRNA vaccines like pfizer), 2) a harmless viral vector (j&j) 3) SARS COV-2
Some foreign mRNA gets introduced to your cells. Your cell's ribosomes see that mRNA and do what it tells them. Your cells start churning out proteins. For the cells "infected" by the vaccines, your cells are only producing copies of the spike protein, while the cells infected by the SARS COV-2 virus produce a lot of copies of the entire virus, including the ability to replicate itself.

The all of these new proteins(vaccines) or viruses (infection) are then dumped into your body and you immune system says "What the **** is this? This doesn't belong here." And starts to produce antibodies and program your t-cells.



Tldr, there is no material difference to your immune system between getting the vaccine and getting infected.

DadHammer said:

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Cepe said:

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T-Cells are the key. It's been over 17 years since the first SARS and people are still showing signs of resistance.

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/07/28/immune-t-cells-may-offer-lasting-protection-against-covid-19/

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This does not get Repeated near enough.

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We'll need a little more time and more data to determine if 17 years is enough to move forward. Check back in 2038

Cepe said:

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T-Cells are the key. It's been over 17 years since the first SARS and people are still showing signs of resistance.

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/07/28/immune-t-cells-may-offer-lasting-protection-against-covid-19/

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WHat I found quite interesting from the article was this paragraph.

An intriguing new study of these memory T cells suggests they might protect some people newly infected with SARS-CoV-2 by remembering past encounters with other human coronaviruses. This might potentially explain why some people seem to fend off the virus and may be less susceptible to becoming severely ill with COVID-19.

And then this one

Finally, Bertoletti's team looked for such T cells in blood samples from 37 healthy individuals with no history of either COVID-19 or SARS. To their surprise, more than half had T cells that recognize one or more of the SARS-CoV-2 proteins under study here. It's still not clear if this acquired immunity stems from previous infection with coronaviruses that cause the common cold or perhaps from exposure to other as-yet unknown coronaviruses.

Need more research on T-cells, that's for sure.

I never get the flu shot, and only seem to get the flu about every 5-7 years. Type O blood as well.

I think like with most things CoVID related it's probably too early to make a definitive call on how durable the immunity from infection is, but one of a long line of irrational policy decisions is that we haven't tried to accelerate herd immunity by holding those previously infected from being vaccinated until later in the process.

Capitol Ag said:

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Had my check up Friday and got all my blood work back. He tested me for the antibodies and I had them from my bout with the Rona back in Jan. As I posted in a different thread, he said that all the talk about vaccinated and those who had the virus as well needing to still mask is simply not true. We cannot easily pass the virus along. This seems to back that up. Agree that I am not sure we are at 80% but will say quite a few people I know have had the virus.

Now, if we only could make companies feel more comfortable in letting the vaccinated and those who have had the virus exempt from any measures like masking, but doubt it happens anytime soon. The governor dropping the mandate seems to have had a strange effect in that a lot of stores and retail in Collin Cnty have double downed on requiring masks even if I show them my vax card. Not that I expected any different regarding a vaccination card, just that before the governor dropped the mandate, some places were lax. Seems that Abbott riled up some folks just judging from the outcry after his presser from people regarding masks.

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I sensed that too. Just a political reaction, it seems.

I told my wife last week, if Trump had come out a year ago and said, "Everyone needs to go everywhere with a masks on", and promptly was seen everywhere with a mask, how would have the other side reacted? Would have been interesting to see.

Would love to know what some of the Docs who frequent this site think of this video presentation from Dr. McCollough.

DadHammer said:

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On the death rate maybe he also tries to separate dying with covid from dying from covid? How deaths from the flu can go to zero is really hard to believe.

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There are very few deaths from the flu each year anyway. Supposedly, it would be rare for a doctor to have a single patient of his die from the flu in his entire career.

Dying from opportunistic infections that take hold because of the flu is an entirely different story.

Covid, on the other hand, seems to kill quite many people itself.

AggieOO said:

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friend of mine is a nurse and got Covid back in June. She wasn't hospitalized but had a rough go, including months-long respiratory issues. She has had several antibody tests since. Initially, she was testing positive for antibodies, but the last two anti-body tests have been negative.

She could very easily be an anomaly, but its not guaranteed to have lasting immunity.

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I didn't have any detectable level of antibodies a month after having covid.

You were likely a false positive. It's impossible not to have antibodies after clearing the actual virus

If you apply the statements you just made, almost nobody does from covid,

Mostly those with other conditions.

JP_Losman said:

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You were likely a false positive. It's impossible not to have antibodies after clearing the actual virus

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There is absolutely zero reason to believe that it was a false positive.

DadHammer said:

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If you apply the statements you just made, almost nobody does from covid,

Mostly those with other conditions.

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Covid itself appears to cause a number of issues directly that can be fatal.