Interview with Dr. Scott Atlas

4,663 Views | 52 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Proposition Joe
Keegan99
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG



KEY QUOTES

Why him?

"I'm a healthcare policy person I have a background in medical science, but my role really is to translate medial science into public policy. That's very different from being an epidemiologist or a virologist with a single, limited view on things."

Dr Fauci

"He's just one person on the task force there are several people on the task force. His background is virology, immunology and infectious disease. It's a very different background, it's a more limited approach, and I don't speak for him."

Herd immunity policy?

"No. It's a repeated distortion, lie, or whatever you want to call it What they mean by 'herd immunity strategy' is survival of the fittest, let the infection spread through the community and develop a population immunity. That's never been the policy that I have advised. It's never even been discussed inside the White House, not even for a single minute. And that's never been the policy of the President of the United States or anybody else here. I've said that many many times and yet it persists like so many other things, hence the term that the President is fond of using called fake news."

On herd immunity

"Population immunity is a biological phenomenon that occurs. It's sort of like if you're building something in your basement: it's down on the ground because gravity puts it there. It's not a 'strategy' to say that herd immunity exists it is obtained when a certain percentage of the population becomes resistant or immune to an infection, whether that is by getting infected or getting a vaccine or by a combination of both. In fact, if you don't that believe herd immunity exists as a way to block the pathways to the vulnerable in an infection, then you would never advocate or believe in giving widespread vaccination that's the whole point of it I've explained it to people who seemingly didn't understand it; I've mentioned this radioactive word called herd immunity. But that's not a strategy that anyone is pursuing."

What is his policy?

"My advice is exactly this. It's a three-pronged strategy. Number one: aggressive protection of high risk individuals and the vulnerable (typically the elderly and those with co-morbidities). Number two: allocate resources so that we prevent hospital overcrowding, so that people can be treated for this virus and get the other serious medical care that is needed. Number three: open schools, society and businesses because keeping them closed is enormously harmful in fact it kills people."

Has the policy changed?

"It is the White House policy on Coronavirus, but it always was. The President started this with an observation that was overlooked by most people in the world: he said in the third week of March that the cure cannot be worse than the disease In April the White House released a formal 'opening up America' document, which included extreme protection of the vulnerable and opening up society It's not been a shift."

Effect of lockdowns

"We must open up because we're killing people. In the US, 46% of the six most common cancers were not diagnosed during the shutdown These are people who will present to the hospital or their doctor with later stage disease many of these people will die. 650,000 Americans are on chemotherapy half of them didn't come in for their chemo because they were afraid. Two-thirds of screenings for cancer were not done; half of childhood immunisations did not get done; 85% of living organ transplants did not get done. And then we see the other harms: 200,000 cases plus of child abuse in the US during the two months of spring school closures were not reported because schools are the number one agency where abuse is noticed; we have one out of four American young adults, college age, who thought of killing themselves in the month of June

All of these harms are massive for the working class and the lower socioeconomic groups. The people who are upper class, who can work from home, the people who can sip their latte and complain that their children are underfoot or that they have to come up with extra money to hire a tutor privately these are people who are not impacted by the lockdowns.

This is the topic, this is why you open up. A secondary gain might be population immunity, but this is the reason to open up."

On short-term immunity

"We don't know how long someone's immunity lasts to this, but this is a coronavirus, this is not a completely novel disease Coronavirus exposure typically has a year, or even a few years, of immunity we can make a first guess that probably there's a good chance that will happen Yes, we know that antibodies disappear but that's true for every infection, that's a typical scenario and not a cause for panic. Why? Because we know there is resistance to infection that seems to be coming out in the literature that is not purely due to antibodies, there are other components of the immune system. Suffice to say this: do we know that people have immunity? You don't need to be a scientist to understand that when you hundreds of millions of cases do you know how many cases of reinfection there are? At the most, five in the world It is not true that there is no immunity to this, that would be a bizarre conclusion."

Climate of fear

"This is one of the biggest failures of the voices of public health in the United States and in the world they specifically instilled fear with their proclamations and statements And the models that were put forward that were worst case scenarios and were just hideously wrong, and the media that has hyped up these rare exceptions like multi-system inflammation in children even though we know the overwhelming evidence is that this disease is absolutely not high risk for children. All the hyperbole, the sensationalising and the failure of public health officials to articulate what we know instead of what we don't know The fear is due to what was said by the so-called experts, by the media and by a failure to understand or care that they were instilling hear I just heard a famous epidemiologist from Harvard the other day say that to have the idea of herd immunity even being discussed is 'mass murder' these kinds of statements are hideously outrageous.

It's never appropriate to have fear. There is no such thing as a government leader who is competent who instils fear."

How to protect old people

"We have not been perfect at it, there's no question it's very challenging. The first is to educate people: put forward the guidelines. I think our society has learned no-one knew what social distancing meant that was a foreign concept and we now understand that but there are more specific measures. We have shipped every single nursing home point of care rapid testing we have mandated weekly testing of every staff that enters a nursing home, but when there is community increase we recommend going up to four times a week.

We cannot guarantee that we can protect everybody there is not such thing as zero risk in life"

But

"I have a 93 year old mother in law, and she said to me 2 months ago, "I'm not interested in being confined in my home. I am not interested in living if that's the life I'm old enough to take a risk, I understand social distancing. I'm going to function, otherwise there's no reason to live." This sort of bizarre, maybe well-intentioned but misguided idea that we are going to eliminate all risk from life, we are going to stop people from taking any risk that they are well aware of, we're going to close down businesses, we're going to stop schools these are inappropriate and destructive policies.

There are between 30,000 and 90,000 people a year that die that are high risk elderly in the United States every flu season. We don't shut down schools in response to that"

Is it politics?

"I see that there is a different philosophy in life. In my own family we have different views on things. But we need to start by looking at the data.

One thing that's been really shocking to me is that in the US and I think all over the world, we have a really contaminated media. Their politics has really distorted truth I think that has now contaminated public policy and science. There's been a massive distortion a complete almost disregard for objectivity, including in some of what were the world's best journals like Lancet, New England Journal, Nature, Science: these people feel compelled to be politically visible, and that's contaminated the discussion."

On test and trace

"Now, there are 7 million registered cases in the US but even the CDC says that it's probably tenfold that, that's 70 million people at least; if we look at the world's cases, maybe 40 million cases but we know that it's probably 10 to 20 times that. So it's not possible to do things like contact tracing and isolating asymptomatic people.

A lot of these people who have very fancy CVs have engaged in very sloppy thinking. And now, partly because it's a political year in the US with a massively polarised electorate, the politics have entered the scene and there's a massive amount of digging in to the original beliefs even though they are completely wrong"

On his own reputation

"My position here is not political zero politics. My motivation was that the President of the United States asked me, a public health policy person who understands medical science, to help in the biggest healthcare crisis of the century. There would be something wrong with you if you would say no to that, no matter what your politics

When I did that though, I knew I would be vilified, because in the US there are a lot of people who think that this President is radioactive, so there is a massive destruction that ensues immediately when you associate with this President. It's a very sad statement on America, on American culture, on the world these people are blinded, even scientists, to the data because they despise the political side of this. And they have a massive ego, and can't admit they're wrong. Ok I'm a contrarian, I'm used to being a contrarian, I'm proud to be an outlier when the inliers are wrong.

I've gone through various levels of being angry. I'm not angry but I'm sort of disgusted and dismayed at the state of things It's just sad to me. I'm cynical about the state we're in right now and the future I'm disturbed. I have children of my own who are in their twenties, and I wonder what the future is if we have lost truth in the media, to a great extent, and we are now starting to lose truth in science

I am angry at the people who were wrong and who insist on prolonging these policies that are killing people, particularly people who are not in their socioeconomic class. It's no problem for a person who has a high level job in government, or an academic job, to sit there and pontificate when the average guy is being destroyed. That I am angry about and I think history will record these people very harshly it is an epic failure of massive proportion that they have abandoned regular people here with their own hubris and political agenda. In that sense yeah I'm angry."

On masks

"Things like universal mask wearing honestly that is contrary to the science as well as common sense, to think that you need to wear a mask when you're in the middle of the desert, when you're in the car on your own, when you're bicycling through St James's Park. This kind of stuff is nonsense. There is no science to support universal masking.

You can look at LA County, Miami-Dade county, many states in the US, the Philippines, Spain, France, the UK, all over the world mandating masks does not stop for the population does not stop cases. That is just super nave, wrong, and that's just garbage science really. The WHO does not recommend widespread mandatory masks, the NIH does not recommend that, the CDC data itself shows that that doesn't work. That's bordering on wearing a copper bracelet as far as I am concerned.

I do think masks have a role in medicine we wear masks for surgical procedures. The reason you wear a mask is when you're very close to somebody, or a sterile environment like an open incision, you want to stop a cough or droplets from getting in there and infecting something. That's very different from breathing If you're socially distanced, there's no reason to wear a mask."

On the Stanford letter

"They expose themselves for who they were when they wrote that letter It's preposterous what was said. But I have a lot of support inside Hoover Institution, a lot of support in faculty I certainly have lost some friends, there's no question about that would I do it again? Absolutely. It's the most important thing I've ever done.

I'm disgusted by politics completely disgusted and it's a sad statement. People were exposed when someone came into power who they didn't agree with it they were exposed for who they were. That's a gross embarrassment, and its sad.. There's a tremendous amount of emotion rather than rational thought."
Drip99
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Thanks for posting.

Is Texas that different from the rest of the country with regards to opening stuff up? Myself and my family have seen all of our Doctors for checkups, etc. and have been doing so for months. My 75 year old mother n law has had all her check ups. My 73 year old overweight mom is going in for knee surgery. Are there still parts of this country where medical care is still shut down and folks are suffering as a result?

On masking, he says don't wear it in your car or the desert but do wear it if you are operating on a patient. There is a large area in between that where most folks in society function that he did not hit on....also seems to be the end result debate of most threads on this forum
dermdoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Keegan99 said:




KEY QUOTES

Why him?

"I'm a healthcare policy person I have a background in medical science, but my role really is to translate medial science into public policy. That's very different from being an epidemiologist or a virologist with a single, limited view on things."

Dr Fauci

"He's just one person on the task force there are several people on the task force. His background is virology, immunology and infectious disease. It's a very different background, it's a more limited approach, and I don't speak for him."

Herd immunity policy?

"No. It's a repeated distortion, lie, or whatever you want to call it What they mean by 'herd immunity strategy' is survival of the fittest, let the infection spread through the community and develop a population immunity. That's never been the policy that I have advised. It's never even been discussed inside the White House, not even for a single minute. And that's never been the policy of the President of the United States or anybody else here. I've said that many many times and yet it persists like so many other things, hence the term that the President is fond of using called fake news."

On herd immunity

"Population immunity is a biological phenomenon that occurs. It's sort of like if you're building something in your basement: it's down on the ground because gravity puts it there. It's not a 'strategy' to say that herd immunity exists it is obtained when a certain percentage of the population becomes resistant or immune to an infection, whether that is by getting infected or getting a vaccine or by a combination of both. In fact, if you don't that believe herd immunity exists as a way to block the pathways to the vulnerable in an infection, then you would never advocate or believe in giving widespread vaccination that's the whole point of it I've explained it to people who seemingly didn't understand it; I've mentioned this radioactive word called herd immunity. But that's not a strategy that anyone is pursuing."

What is his policy?

"My advice is exactly this. It's a three-pronged strategy. Number one: aggressive protection of high risk individuals and the vulnerable (typically the elderly and those with co-morbidities). Number two: allocate resources so that we prevent hospital overcrowding, so that people can be treated for this virus and get the other serious medical care that is needed. Number three: open schools, society and businesses because keeping them closed is enormously harmful in fact it kills people."

Has the policy changed?

"It is the White House policy on Coronavirus, but it always was. The President started this with an observation that was overlooked by most people in the world: he said in the third week of March that the cure cannot be worse than the disease In April the White House released a formal 'opening up America' document, which included extreme protection of the vulnerable and opening up society It's not been a shift."

Effect of lockdowns

"We must open up because we're killing people. In the US, 46% of the six most common cancers were not diagnosed during the shutdown These are people who will present to the hospital or their doctor with later stage disease many of these people will die. 650,000 Americans are on chemotherapy half of them didn't come in for their chemo because they were afraid. Two-thirds of screenings for cancer were not done; half of childhood immunisations did not get done; 85% of living organ transplants did not get done. And then we see the other harms: 200,000 cases plus of child abuse in the US during the two months of spring school closures were not reported because schools are the number one agency where abuse is noticed; we have one out of four American young adults, college age, who thought of killing themselves in the month of June

All of these harms are massive for the working class and the lower socioeconomic groups. The people who are upper class, who can work from home, the people who can sip their latte and complain that their children are underfoot or that they have to come up with extra money to hire a tutor privately these are people who are not impacted by the lockdowns.

This is the topic, this is why you open up. A secondary gain might be population immunity, but this is the reason to open up."

On short-term immunity

"We don't know how long someone's immunity lasts to this, but this is a coronavirus, this is not a completely novel disease Coronavirus exposure typically has a year, or even a few years, of immunity we can make a first guess that probably there's a good chance that will happen Yes, we know that antibodies disappear but that's true for every infection, that's a typical scenario and not a cause for panic. Why? Because we know there is resistance to infection that seems to be coming out in the literature that is not purely due to antibodies, there are other components of the immune system. Suffice to say this: do we know that people have immunity? You don't need to be a scientist to understand that when you hundreds of millions of cases do you know how many cases of reinfection there are? At the most, five in the world It is not true that there is no immunity to this, that would be a bizarre conclusion."

Climate of fear

"This is one of the biggest failures of the voices of public health in the United States and in the world they specifically instilled fear with their proclamations and statements And the models that were put forward that were worst case scenarios and were just hideously wrong, and the media that has hyped up these rare exceptions like multi-system inflammation in children even though we know the overwhelming evidence is that this disease is absolutely not high risk for children. All the hyperbole, the sensationalising and the failure of public health officials to articulate what we know instead of what we don't know The fear is due to what was said by the so-called experts, by the media and by a failure to understand or care that they were instilling hear I just heard a famous epidemiologist from Harvard the other day say that to have the idea of herd immunity even being discussed is 'mass murder' these kinds of statements are hideously outrageous.

It's never appropriate to have fear. There is no such thing as a government leader who is competent who instils fear."

How to protect old people

"We have not been perfect at it, there's no question it's very challenging. The first is to educate people: put forward the guidelines. I think our society has learned no-one knew what social distancing meant that was a foreign concept and we now understand that but there are more specific measures. We have shipped every single nursing home point of care rapid testing we have mandated weekly testing of every staff that enters a nursing home, but when there is community increase we recommend going up to four times a week.

We cannot guarantee that we can protect everybody there is not such thing as zero risk in life"

But

"I have a 93 year old mother in law, and she said to me 2 months ago, "I'm not interested in being confined in my home. I am not interested in living if that's the life I'm old enough to take a risk, I understand social distancing. I'm going to function, otherwise there's no reason to live." This sort of bizarre, maybe well-intentioned but misguided idea that we are going to eliminate all risk from life, we are going to stop people from taking any risk that they are well aware of, we're going to close down businesses, we're going to stop schools these are inappropriate and destructive policies.

There are between 30,000 and 90,000 people a year that die that are high risk elderly in the United States every flu season. We don't shut down schools in response to that"

Is it politics?

"I see that there is a different philosophy in life. In my own family we have different views on things. But we need to start by looking at the data.

One thing that's been really shocking to me is that in the US and I think all over the world, we have a really contaminated media. Their politics has really distorted truth I think that has now contaminated public policy and science. There's been a massive distortion a complete almost disregard for objectivity, including in some of what were the world's best journals like Lancet, New England Journal, Nature, Science: these people feel compelled to be politically visible, and that's contaminated the discussion."

On test and trace

"Now, there are 7 million registered cases in the US but even the CDC says that it's probably tenfold that, that's 70 million people at least; if we look at the world's cases, maybe 40 million cases but we know that it's probably 10 to 20 times that. So it's not possible to do things like contact tracing and isolating asymptomatic people.

A lot of these people who have very fancy CVs have engaged in very sloppy thinking. And now, partly because it's a political year in the US with a massively polarised electorate, the politics have entered the scene and there's a massive amount of digging in to the original beliefs even though they are completely wrong"

On his own reputation

"My position here is not political zero politics. My motivation was that the President of the United States asked me, a public health policy person who understands medical science, to help in the biggest healthcare crisis of the century. There would be something wrong with you if you would say no to that, no matter what your politics

When I did that though, I knew I would be vilified, because in the US there are a lot of people who think that this President is radioactive, so there is a massive destruction that ensues immediately when you associate with this President. It's a very sad statement on America, on American culture, on the world these people are blinded, even scientists, to the data because they despise the political side of this. And they have a massive ego, and can't admit they're wrong. Ok I'm a contrarian, I'm used to being a contrarian, I'm proud to be an outlier when the inliers are wrong.

I've gone through various levels of being angry. I'm not angry but I'm sort of disgusted and dismayed at the state of things It's just sad to me. I'm cynical about the state we're in right now and the future I'm disturbed. I have children of my own who are in their twenties, and I wonder what the future is if we have lost truth in the media, to a great extent, and we are now starting to lose truth in science

I am angry at the people who were wrong and who insist on prolonging these policies that are killing people, particularly people who are not in their socioeconomic class. It's no problem for a person who has a high level job in government, or an academic job, to sit there and pontificate when the average guy is being destroyed. That I am angry about and I think history will record these people very harshly it is an epic failure of massive proportion that they have abandoned regular people here with their own hubris and political agenda. In that sense yeah I'm angry."

On masks

"Things like universal mask wearing honestly that is contrary to the science as well as common sense, to think that you need to wear a mask when you're in the middle of the desert, when you're in the car on your own, when you're bicycling through St James's Park. This kind of stuff is nonsense. There is no science to support universal masking.

You can look at LA County, Miami-Dade county, many states in the US, the Philippines, Spain, France, the UK, all over the world mandating masks does not stop for the population does not stop cases. That is just super nave, wrong, and that's just garbage science really. The WHO does not recommend widespread mandatory masks, the NIH does not recommend that, the CDC data itself shows that that doesn't work. That's bordering on wearing a copper bracelet as far as I am concerned.

I do think masks have a role in medicine we wear masks for surgical procedures. The reason you wear a mask is when you're very close to somebody, or a sterile environment like an open incision, you want to stop a cough or droplets from getting in there and infecting something. That's very different from breathing If you're socially distanced, there's no reason to wear a mask."

On the Stanford letter

"They expose themselves for who they were when they wrote that letter It's preposterous what was said. But I have a lot of support inside Hoover Institution, a lot of support in faculty I certainly have lost some friends, there's no question about that would I do it again? Absolutely. It's the most important thing I've ever done.

I'm disgusted by politics completely disgusted and it's a sad statement. People were exposed when someone came into power who they didn't agree with it they were exposed for who they were. That's a gross embarrassment, and its sad.. There's a tremendous amount of emotion rather than rational thought."


Bravo.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Rubble
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
[Reminder that we do not want political comments on this forum. See WatchOle's thread stickied at the top of this forum. - Staff]
Capitol Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Wow! Great stuff. Obviously where I stand on most of this. One thing I have found very interesting is, of the people that are in my inner circle that are the biggest proponents of the restrictions and mandates, that they do little to no research on this issue. Heck, many don't really watch the news that much but they do enough to think that they know enough to support these policies. When I try to show them other voices during this, they seem to act surprised that there even is another voice and that maybe a lot of this is baseless and not solid science at all. I still have intelligent friends who won't eat at restaurants or go to the grocery store for fear. Yet the funniest thing is that they will do things like share a shot glass with someone or attend parties with friends. They do things that are completely incongruent with inconsistent with their own admitted beliefs. Others will be out at soccer games outside, whole family masked up the whole time, when we are outside and distanced and no one else is masked. These are strange times. It's not the virus that makes them strange, but the reactions of people that make this what it is.

And yes, when I see a person riding a bike alone, walking alone, driving alone all while wearing a mask, I have to wonder if they literally just forgot (easy to do) that they had their mask on or if they truly do not understand the science behind this. Same with the 2 to 3 families insistent on keeping their masks on at my daughter's soccer games. There is 0 reason to wear the mask out there. None. Don't look dumb or like you have an agenda to show off.
Rubble
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Capitol Ag said:

Wow! Great stuff. Obviously where I stand on most of this. One thing I have found very interesting is, of the people that are in more circle that are the biggest proponents of the restrictions and mandates, that they do little to no research on this issue. Heck, many don't really watch the news that much but they do enough to think that they know enough to support these policies. When I try to show them other voices during this, they seem to act surprised that there even is another voice and that maybe a lot of this is baseless and not solid science at all. I still have intelligent friends who won't eat at restaurants or go to the grocery store for fear. Yet the funniest thing is that they will do things like share a shot glass with someone or attend parties with friends. They do things that are completely incongruent with inconsistent with their own admitted beliefs. Others will be out at soccer games outside, whole family masked up the whole time, when we are outside and distanced and no one else is masked. These are strange times. It's not the virus that makes them strange, but the reactions of people that make this what it is.

And yes, when I see a person riding a bike alone, walking alone, driving alone all while wearing a mask, I have to wonder if they literally just forgot (easy to do) that they had their mask on or if they truly do not understand the science behind this. Same with the 2 to 3 families insistent on keeping their masks on at my daughter's soccer games. There is 0 reason to wear the mask out there. None. Don't look dumb or like you have an agenda to show off.
This is what really drives me nuts about these type of people. They'll argue about this virus being so deadly, wear masks everywhere, then go on vacation around a million people, go out to eat every night, etc. Don't yell at me because I have a different outlook on this virus, then turn around and do things that would compromise your own well-being...
Capitol Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
JesusQuintana said:

Thanks for posting.

Is Texas that different from the rest of the country with regards to opening stuff up? Myself and my family have seen all of our Doctors for checkups, etc. and have been doing so for months. My 75 year old mother n law has had all her check ups. My 73 year old overweight mom is going in for knee surgery. Are there still parts of this country where medical care is still shut down and folks are suffering as a result?

On masking, he says don't wear it in your car or the desert but do wear it if you are operating on a patient. There is a large area in between that where most folks in society function that he did not hit on....also seems to be the end result debate of most threads on this forum
Honestly the mask debate is about a "one size fits all" policy, or really the use of one. It is overkill. Where masks may really be beneficial is when there is a large viral load. If it is you with the virus, a lot of it, with the proper mask, possibly could be blocked and if you happen to be by that person or persons, your mask very well may add additional blockage. Again, these are theories but they make good sense. The issue is, in many cases you cannot or won't be in proximity enough for it to matter. For instance, if you need to run into large facilities like a grocery store, as long as you stay relatively distanced from people, its very unlikely you will contract or spread the virus. When you are outdoors, like at Kyle Field, the wind, sunlight and social distancing should be way more than enough to protect you and those around you. And they really do suck to wear and are very much inconvenient for us in most cases. So in a small classroom, it is probably a fine way to add a small amount of protection or piece of mind. But when in the weight room? You do not need one unless you are very consistently within 6 feet. Notice I said weight room. The free weight and machine areas typically are set up to encourage distancing already. A small, closed cycling class is a different story. A well documented case of the virus spreading in a cycling class shows the difference. Also, another reason to skip that cycling class and just lift weights! But that is for a different thread. Point is, masks don't work as a one size fits all type of thing and can be effective without the need to have a universal policy.
cone
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
masks are about three things

- psychological illusion of control

- cheap, available, can't hurt, might help

- culture war BS (which sucks and makes a hash of the can't hurt, might help point)
AggieSarah01
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Except it DOES hurt. Most people distance less. More people cross-contaminate. Not to mention psychological health of most people and social interaction harm, especially for children.
cone
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
well then that's weighed against the advantages over the short term

i do believe that, combined with social distancing (in what proportion i don't know), it's helped with viral load
Capitol Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
cone said:

well then that's weighed against the advantages over the short term

i do believe that, combined with social distancing (in what proportion i don't know), it's helped with viral load
I agree that there maybe something to the viral load and the masks ability to limit it. It is by no means an absolute thing and as you said, a lot of it is optics. College and pro coaches really don't need them most likely, for instance. And I think it's only a partial block. One can probably still get the virus regardless of a mask or not.Make no mistake, the moment the mandate is lifted in TX, I probably will not wear a mask unless visiting my parents, having a medical procedure or when forced to. I HATE wearing them and I am beyond worrying about someone having the opinion that I am not "compassionate".
DTP02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I can't blue star that OP enough. Kudos to Scott Atlas but the key is that everything he said needs to get out to the public. He needs a platform.

Maybe after the election we can have a national rengagement on the facts of COVID19. If Trump wins, I hope he gives Atlas a big platform to do that, or does it himself if he can stick to a teleprompter.
murphyag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I'm required to wear a mask in the office and I have personally seen the benefit of wearing a mask in an office building with hundreds of people. Before the mask mandates, we had Covid cases pop up among employees. Since mask mandate, not one case.

I have to travel a lot for work and wear a mask in the airport and on the plane.

We started having our groceries delivered at the beginning of this mess and frankly neither of us plan to stop that anytime soon. We both hate shopping, so this has been a big plus for us. Yes, one of us occasionally has to run into the store to pick up on work two things. We wear a mask then.

But, other than that we don't wear a mask outdoors or at my kids sporting events. We do wear them at Kyle Field. It sucks, but after seeing that the SEC office came down hard on the ags, I understand why they are trying to be sticklers about mask wearing.

I am of the belief that the mask helps lessen the viral load of Covid. Started thinking that way once Eric76 on here shared his experience with Covid and a similar belief that the mask lowered the viral load. In my family, none of us wears cloth masks. We buy FDA approved surgical masks in bulk from an Austin area company that makes the masks in their factory near Austin.
Capitol Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
murphyag said:

I'm required to wear a mask in the office and I have personally seen the benefit of wearing a mask in an office building with hundreds of people. Before the mask mandates, we had Covid cases pop up among employees. Since mask mandate, not one case.

I have to travel a lot for work and wear a mask in the airport and on the plane.

We started having our groceries delivered at the beginning of this mess and frankly neither of us plan to stop that anytime soon. We both hate shopping, so this has been a big plus for us. Yes, one of us occasionally has to run into the store to pick up on work two things. We wear a mask then.

But, other than that we don't wear a mask outdoors or at my kids sporting events. We do wear them at Kyle Field. It sucks, but after seeing that the SEC office came down hard on the ags, I understand why they are trying to be sticklers about mask wearing.

I am of the belief that the mask helps lessen the viral load of Covid. Started thinking that way once Eric76 on here shared his experience with Covid and a similar belief that the mask lowered the viral load. In my family, none of us wears cloth masks. We buy FDA approved surgical masks in bulk from an Austin area company that makes the masks in their factory near Austin.
It may very well have been the masks that limited the spread. But it also could have been the initial spread through your office and the building that created immunity.
murphyag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Capitol Ag said:

murphyag said:

I'm required to wear a mask in the office and I have personally seen the benefit of wearing a mask in an office building with hundreds of people. Before the mask mandates, we had Covid cases pop up among employees. Since mask mandate, not one case.

I have to travel a lot for work and wear a mask in the airport and on the plane.

We started having our groceries delivered at the beginning of this mess and frankly neither of us plan to stop that anytime soon. We both hate shopping, so this has been a big plus for us. Yes, one of us occasionally has to run into the store to pick up on work two things. We wear a mask then.

But, other than that we don't wear a mask outdoors or at my kids sporting events. We do wear them at Kyle Field. It sucks, but after seeing that the SEC office came down hard on the ags, I understand why they are trying to be sticklers about mask wearing.

I am of the belief that the mask helps lessen the viral load of Covid. Started thinking that way once Eric76 on here shared his experience with Covid and a similar belief that the mask lowered the viral load. In my family, none of us wears cloth masks. We buy FDA approved surgical masks in bulk from an Austin area company that makes the masks in their factory near Austin.
It may very well have been the masks that limited the spread. But it also could have been the initial spread through your office and the building that created immunity.


I thought that as well at first about the immunity. Now, I'm not so sure. A bunch of us in my department donated blood at a blood drive (we knew they'd test for antibodies) and none of us have antibodies. Since I fly often for work, I'd always assumed it was possible that I'd unknowingly contracted it from work travel or in the office when the outbreaks occurred and had just been asymptomatic.
Tailgate88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Thanks for posting this!

Despite good intentions, the preventive measure we have imposed on our population has done more harm than good.
FlyRod
How long do you want to ignore this user?
This thread is exactly the reason we are not getting out of this horror movie any time soon. Dr. Atlas is nothing more or less then a quack. An extraordinarily dangerous quack.
Keegan99
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Everything he says is backed by longstanding science. Sorry.

It is the "experts" like Fauci and Birx that threw out the playbook for handling a moderate flu pandemic and caved to ChiCom lockdown propaganda.

And Sweden - and now Florida and Georgia - is proof.
DadHammer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The biggest problem is that lockdowns just don't work and why people think they do is mind bottling.

Destroying your economy does not stop a respiratory virus. Every country that went into a lock down is having spikes in infections, it was guaranteed to happen.

Deaths are way way down everywhere pretty much. We all know they are being inflated as well to hide the horrible truths on lockdowns and how awful they truly are.
amercer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Yep. This thing is just about to burn itself out right? Heard immunity just around the corner? Won't even need the vaccine by the end of the year.... Right?
Keegan99
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Generally speaking, yes. There has yet to be a region hit significantly twice.

You won't see another big swell in Houston or the RGV or Florida or Arizona.

There are areas in the Midwest that are vulnerable.
DadHammer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
amercer said:

Yep. This thing is just about to burn itself out right? Heard immunity just around the corner? Won't even need the vaccine by the end of the year.... Right?

Correct, also if death rates are super low what exactly ARE you asking for?

Seriously, what do you recommend?
amercer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Again, I hope you optimists are correct. But we will see.
amercer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I recommend that after 4 months of saying that this is almost done, you take a step back and contemplate how you've been wrong so far.
DadHammer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I'm not wrong. It's a respiratory virus that has to run its course.

Point is you don't destroy your way of life for a virus that will end up with a 0.02% death rate.

I don't understand what you are recommending we do? Sorry if I missed your point somewhere along the line.

Does it not matter to you that way more people are going to die from our over reaction to covid? Why do covid deaths mean more than the others? I just don't understand your logic for some reason.

Not trying to be rude I just really don't understand your point.

cone
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
you've even said that people won't take the vaccine when it's available

no offense, just curious why that's something to be relied upon in this context but not others

I know you're in the vaccine biz
amercer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Gene therapy. I don't do vaccines. My wife works for AZ, but in oncology not vaccines.

Just want to be clear on that before Texags decides I'm a vaccine sales rep.
cone
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
good to know. got you down. live in MD, work in pharma.
dermdoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
FlyRod said:

This thread is exactly the reason we are not getting out of this horror movie any time soon. Dr. Atlas is nothing more or less then a quack. An extraordinarily dangerous quack.


So how does this stay up? When if I said the same thing about certain docs I would get nuked?

C'mon guys
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
NASAg03
How long do you want to ignore this user?
DadHammer said:

I'm not wrong. It's a respiratory virus that has to run its course.

Point is you don't destroy your way of life for a virus that will end up with a 0.02% death rate.

I don't understand what you are recommending we do? Sorry if I missed your point somewhere along the line.

Does it not matter to you that way more people are going to die from our over reaction to covid? Why do covid deaths mean more than the others? I just don't understand your logic for some reason.

Not trying to be rude I just really don't understand your point.


The opposing side doesn't have a real policy response because it's driven by fear, not science, and you can't make policy with fear other than continue hiding.

Many states have been doing different things, from harsh lockdowns to fully re-opened, and THERE IS NO TREND on which side is best from a virus "containment", case reduction, or life preservation POV. All states and nations are seeing ebbs and flows, regardless of policy.

UK, Italy, Spain, Canada, Germany and Sweden are all seeing a significant increase in cases - some approaching peaks of their "first wave." All except Sweden are also seeing an exponential increase in deaths. Are they going to lock back down again? After 7 months, this still isn't contained, and now winter is approaching.

There's debate how many lives masks and lockdowns and social distancing saves, if any. There's no debate that non-covid mortality, poor emotional health, poverty, and world hunger are greatly increasing with a certain decrease in quality of life. That's 7 months.

How many more months will we stop living just to exist. There's more to life than just breathing. I support policy that encourages living, not existing.
Mike Shaw - Class of '03
Federale01
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
He has any platform he wants. He is on the president's task force. The reason he isn't out in front of more media is because most experts believe he is wrong. At least he admitted he has no training in fields relevant to virology or infectious disease.
Keegan99
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Depends on which experts.

The Great Barrington Declaration experts generally agree with his assessment.

As a reminder, the lockdowns that Fauci and Birx and others have advocated for were part of NO plan for a moderate flu pandemic, and were specifically advised AGAINST.
dermdoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Keegan99 said:

Depends on which experts.

The Great Barrington Declaration experts generally agree with his assessment.

As a reminder, the lockdowns that Fauci and Birx and others have advocated for were part of NO plan for a moderate flu pandemic, and were specifically advised AGAINST.
Yep. And I would listen to Sweden's experts. Fauci and Birx have been spectacularly wrong.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Infection_Ag11
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
My thoughts on Atlas are mixed. On the one hand, he has made some good points along the way that have been ignored/gone unaddressed by others. As an example, he has consistently reiterated what I've said on here regarding the prospect of at least short term immunity. The claim that we didnt know anything about whether people would be immune to this or not for some period of time after getting it was just not true. To think this virus would behave so fundamentally differently with regards to immune stimulation from other coronaviruses was just not reasonable, and sure enough we're seeing robust plasma cell stimulation and antibody production after infection in the vast majority of people.


On the other hand, he has somewhat consistently stated things which are either not true or unfounded and has often stepped WAY outside of his areas of expertise in order to do so. As an example, he took fairly hard stances on who could and could not transmit the virus and when in the course of illness they could do so long before we actually knew any of that, and most of his thoughts turned out to be incorrect.

My other gripe is that some of his thoughts on public health protocol/policy are just bizarre, especially for someone with a background in that area. The context of his early statements on the matter make me REALLY question whether he actually fully understood the concept of herd immunity at the time, which a fundamental concept in this area of medicine. For those who understand it many of his comments just made no sense whatsoever. It was like someone asking you your favorite color and you answering "asparagus".
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
nai06
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Keegan99 said:

Depends on which experts.

The Great Barrington Declaration experts generally agree with his assessment.

As a reminder, the lockdowns that Fauci and Birx and others have advocated for were part of NO plan for a moderate flu pandemic, and were specifically advised AGAINST.
You mean the same Great Barrington Declaration signed by thousands of doctors and scientists?

People like Dr. Johnny Bananas. Dr. IP Freely, Dr. Person Fakename, and my personal favorite Dr. Harold Shipman. Shipman was a serial killer who murdered over 200 of his patients (he died in 2004).



https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/520961-white-house-officials-promote-herd-immunity-declaration-signed-by-fake

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-dr-johnny-bananas-and-dr-person-fakename-among-medical-signatories-on-herd-immunity-open-letter-12099947


Page 1 of 2
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.