1. This is not about it bouncing or not. Personally I do not think you can tell if it did or did not from the video.

2. This is about the umpires call. Did he call him out or not?

I have heard people saying the umpire called him out and that should have remained the call.

After the game during the press conference, the umpires described how you call a strike out that hits the ground. In the press conference, they stated that if the home plate umpire believes that the ball hit the ground, he puts his arm out to the side and than gives the out sign. This is supposed to signal to the playing field that it is a strike out, but that it hit the ground and is a live ball.

It sounds a lot like the tuck rule in the NFL where Brady fumbled, but they said by rule he did not.

If everything they stated in the press conference is correct. The umpire made the proper hand motions and did not make a signal for a third out, like some have stated.

The ump did the same thing earlier in the game, except he waited to give the out signal until the batter was tagged out.

Just going by what they said in the press conference.

shady.

I'll say this much: Throughout the playoffs there have been numerous close/tough calls to make and the umps have been all over virtually EVERY one. These crews have done a solid job.

I've seen catchers touch a batter on a swinging strike 3 that was nowhere near the ground. The 3rd string catcher blew it.

The play where the idiot Sox runner was doubled up at 2B on a fly to LF was a great call by the ump. I thought he was wrong when I first saw it, but replays showed he was right and it was REAL close. Overall, they do a great job. The main issues usually come in with balls and strikes. As long as they are consistent though, the players are OK with pretty much any strike zone.

tim, that was also pierzinski (cant spell his name), who was the one who struck out and was heads up enough to run to first when the ump was blowing the call.

After the game pierzinski mentioned that a similar play to the strike out play happened to him in SF, he learned from the mistake and took advantage of it last night

WoMD- Didn't realize it was the same guy. I guess he atoned for his previous error.

For third our strikeouts near the dirt, nearly every catcher in the league tags the guy before tossing the ball out to the mound to go to the dugout. This idiot failed to do so and is paying for it now. Ive played catcher my whole life and I remember in HS I would always tag the guy regardless of whether or not I thought it hit the dirt because I know the umpire cant see the play and can only hear so much. Better to be safe than sorry, period.

Tim, I believe it was Crede that got thrown out at 2nd. He did make up for it with his double off the wall to win it.

1. The Angel's cather made a mistake, any close call you should tag the batter or throw to first base.

2. It looked like the umpire first made the third strike call, and then 3-4 seconds later made an out call. The strike call would indicate (to me) that the third strike was recorded but the ball was still in play, but when he made the out signal that meant three outs (dead ball at that point).

The ESPN guys showed how the home plate ump wasn't consistent in how he handled this situation. Frankly, the real problem is that the umpires are allowed to free lance too much, and there is no set way to signal the various things that the players need to know from visual observation, as opposed to having a verbal call from the umpire with 50,000 screaming fans.

When the ump uses the same signal for calling a strike as he does for calling a batter/runner out, and when each umpire has his own little idosyncratic way of making calls, it can only lead to confusion. Baseball needs to adopt a clear sign for strike that cannot be mistaken for out, and they also need a clear sign for a dropped third strike.

Here's another thought on the play. Umpire calls strike three and gives the sign for strikeout. Pierzynski looks like he is walking out of the box so the ump flashes the out call. The ump then seeing Pierzynski is still in the box (he's a lefty and has the full box to walk across heading back to the dugout)allows him to run to first. It is my understanding that after a dropped third strike if the player leaves the box then he is out. If there is any part of him still in the box he can still run to first. Just a thought.

I may be mistaken, but I think I heard on sports center that as long as he hasnt entered the dugout he can run to first

same as it would be if he failed to touch home plate when scoring, he can still come back and touch it as long as he hasnt entered the dugout

Mr. Acker is right. As long as he has not entered the dugout, he can take off for first.

i'm amazed at the 12 hours of discussion that i heard all day on sports stations!!!WHY DOESN'T SOMEBODY ASK THE CATCHER IF HE CAUGHT IT????? HE KNOWS!!!!

I doubt he would admit he didn't

Ump made two calls clearly. He made the strike call. Then later made the out call. He blew it. Yep, the catcher should have tagged him. Did the ump not really mean it when he called him out?

Senior Fan: Close plays are a part of the game. Whether or not the ball actually hit the dirt is somewhat beside the point. Had the umpire communicated his call properly, the Angels would have recorded the putout at first regardless of whether or not the ball hit the dirt.

Birdman: Actually, the ump would tell you that his fist gesture (extending right arm out with palm down) was his way of indicating a swing without contact, and that the closed fist is the way that he (and a number of other umpires) signal a strike. This is what I'm talking about in the individualized umpiring styles.

There is no reason to signal a swing without contact as Eddings regularly does--if there is a swing and there's no contact, simply signal strike. If the batter makes contact, its either a foul ball or strike three, if caught by the catcher, and in both cases, you'd signal that the ball was tipped (at least most umpires are pretty unanimous in how to signal that), and if it's strike three, you follow the tip sign with an out sign. When you add Eddings meaningless swing but no contact signal to his use of the same signal for strike and out, that's a recipe for a communications breakdown. I don't think this guy is a bad ump--he's just doing what MLB umps have been doing ever since Ron Luciano, and nobody has gotten them back on the right path.

I was taught (25 years or so ago) not to make a strike call and out call the same way to avoid just what happened.

And also taught if you don't think he caught it you either point "forward" with left hand to indicate swing or as Greg Gibson did not last night in the Astros game, give a safe sign (as opposed to foul ball/dead ball sign) so that everyone knows there is no out.

Have you guys not been watching the tv?

The hand to the right signaled no contact with the ball, not a strike.

The fist meant it was a strikeout.

Then if the catcher had tagged him he would make another fist to call him out.

The exact same thing happened earlier in the game and he did it this way, calling a fist for the strikeout then another fist for the out after thecatcher tagged him.

Gig 'Em

they showed that one from earlier in the game and he only gave one fist...arm out, then the fist right after the tag...either way...umpiring is hard and those guys get it right 98% of the time