We were talking on the UF game thread last weekend about how much I was beginning to hate the MLB replay system, particularly in light of the new slide rule and it's impact on the neighborhood play. ...well it kicked in for the first time today. This play, called a double play, was overturned by replay.

What's your position? You don't think the defense needs to step on the bag for an out?

Yes please explain your stance.

as long as the replay can be accomplished quickly, as not to impact the flow of the game, it's not a bad thing.

seems like there are lots of close plays at first that get the call that shouldn't - whether the batter legged out the hit, or the first baseman pulled off the bag to make the play.

First incident happened yesterday during the Dodger game with Chase Utley sliding into 2B...

Our discussion the other day was generally around how I felt replay was being over used. Slowing down games and being used to determine plays i didn't think should be overturned on review. I want the review to determine whether the ball/tag beat the runner. Instead, when a guy steals a bag and in the process of sliding in/over the bag at some point his body comes 1/2" off the bag he's being called out. Note I said over, not past. If you miss the bag or slide past it you should be out. That was the main discussion point and from there it moved to the new ability to replay the new slide rules and the neighborhood play.

I think the Bautista play the other day was the perfect review. He clearly reached out and grabbed the guys foot. Clear interference in my opinion. But I think if you're going to make the middle infielders remain firmly planted you will end up with players injured, even with the new slide rule. I think the neighborhood play is more of a policy decision for baseball as to what is more aesthetically pleasing and best promotes player safety. My biggest concern with the neighborhood review though is that I fear it will really slow down the game. ...and I believe we will see non uniform application. The double play called on review in the Nationals game on Monday is the perfect example. The slide rule was invoked as a reason for the double play and yet I believe Murphy was off the bag when receiving the ball. What should have been the correct call there? Double reversal? Overturn the out that was granted at 2nd but then overturn the safe call at first?

quote:

---

Our discussion the other day was generally around how I felt replay was being over used. Slowing down games and being used to determine plays i didn't think should be overturned on review. I want the review to determine whether the ball/tag beat the runner. Instead, when a guy steals a bag and in the process of sliding in/over the bag at some point his body comes 1/2" off the bag he's being called out. Note I said over, not past. If you miss the bag or slide past it you should be out. That was the main discussion point and from there it moved to the new ability to replay the new slide rules and the neighborhood play.

I think the Bautista play the other day was the perfect review. He clearly reached out and grabbed the guys foot. Clear interference in my opinion. But I think if you're going to make the middle infielders remain firmly planted you will end up with players injured, even with the new slide rule. I think the neighborhood play is more of a policy decision for baseball as to what is more aesthetically pleasing and best promotes player safety. My biggest concern with the neighborhood review though is that I fear it will really slow down the game. ...and I believe we will see non uniform application. The double play called on review in the Nationals game on Monday is the perfect example. The slide rule was invoked as a reason for the double play and yet I believe Murphy was off the bag when receiving the ball. What should have been the correct call there? Double reversal? Overturn the out that was granted at 2nd but then overturn the safe call at first?

---

If Murphy never physically touched the bag while in possession of the ball before throwing to first, then the runner is safe at second base. The runner is still out at first if the 1st baseman had possession of the ball and touched the bag before the runner got there.

I'm putting it that way as I didn't actually see the play in question.

quote:

---

If Murphy never physically touched the bag while in possession of the ball before throwing to first, then the runner is safe at second base. The runner is still out at first if the 1st baseman had possession of the ball and touched the bag before the runner got there.

I'm putting it that way as I didn't actually see the play in question.

---

I went back and re-watched the video and I think Murphy was on the bag. It's close, but I think he's still on the bag. I let the talking heads impact my decision a few days ago.

The reality is I just think we are going to see a VERY inconsistent application of these rules. In the Nationals game the base runner clearly slid past the bag, was unable to reach the bag. In other words made no attempt to stay on the bag. He did not change his path, so didn't violate that part of the rule, but was unable to reach the bag from where he ended up.

In the Bautista play a few days ago he ended up within reaching distance of the bag... but he never made any attempt to touch the bag. He ran on his previously established line, slid, but instead of reaching right for the bag, he reached left (away from the bag) and grabbed the foot/ankle of the 3rd baseman. Then, because the Blue Jays are all self-aggrandizing b**ches, they made a big stink about how all the players should have to wear dresses instead of uniforms anymore.

After looking at the Murphy play again, I think both calls were right under the rule. I still believe absolute application of the rules (i.e., eliminating the neighborhood play) puts middle infielders in a dangerous situation. I'm okay with that if it's uniformly applied and is the policy decision MLB makes. But I think replay in general has changed the game, and not always for the better.

I guess it's a question in my mind of whether we are going to judge plays in terms of absolute application of the rule (in which case we should have an electronic strike zone and do away with on the field umps) or a "spirit" of the rule. If a player slides hard, head first into second, beats the throw with his and at some point when his mid-section is over the bag his belt buckle comes .0001" above the bag and he is ruled out (which is basically what is happening in more than a few cases now) then I think the rule is sh**. If the replay rule is intended to allow people to get missed calls corrected then I'm 100% in support. But if we're replaying every play at every base it makes the game unwatchable.

quote:

---

First incident happened yesterday during the Dodger game with Chase Utley sliding into 2B...

---

I assume you are talking about the slide last year in the playoffs that broke Tejeda's leg?

I don't mind MLB trying this. The "neighborhood" play had gotten to the point where if you were on the playing surface, you were close enough to record the out at second. In past seasons, I've seen the double play turned when the middle infielder never got within 3 or 4 feet of 2nd base.

Where do you draw the line? If replay is used, I think you have to ensure that the player touches the bag, but I do agree with you with players sliding over the base.

Hehehe. Astros get nailed by the new slide rule. Ballgame over.

That stunk on the Astros game, still had work to do but they were putting up runs in the 9th

quote:

---

quote:

---

....Then, because the Blue Jays are all self-aggrandizing b**ches, they made a big stink about how all the players should have to wear dresses instead of uniforms anymore.

---

No lie there.....throwing beer bottles from the top deck and hitting Moms with kids? Gimme a break!

---

quote:

---

I don't mind MLB trying this. The "neighborhood" play had gotten to the point where if you were on the playing surface, you were close enough to record the out at second. In past seasons, I've seen the double play turned when the middle infielder never got within 3 or 4 feet of 2nd base.

Where do you draw the line? If replay is used, I think you have to ensure that the player touches the bag, but I do agree with you with players sliding over the base.

---

I agree that there should be a touch of the bag to actually register the out. The neighborhood play is not allowed in little league, so why allow it in the bigs?

I also feel that you have to maintain contact with the bag. If you slide into the base, and are too stupid to maintain contact, and walk it up, then an out is what you deserve. It won't take long for base runners to adjust. As far as the interference calls go, I am all in favor of them too.

I think the league needs to make a ruling with the umpires and players association on board, to get this settled once and for all.

Continued inconsistency... This double play being shown on the MLB Network Plays Of The Week show this morning.



Edit: I know you can't tell from a still shot but Petey's left foot is on the way UP, not down. And the ball is on its way into the glove, that is not the transfer.

"Double Play of the Week!". But not actually a double play at all. No consistency.

Why is that a surprise, baseball is the only sport that thinks getting the call right violates the spirit of the game or some bull**** like that

Was this play reviewed via a coach challenge? If so, then yes I'd agree there's no consistency, but if not then it doesn't matter

The astros play was very close. They showed about 4 different angles and never had a clear view in my opinion of whether his toe caught the back of the bag. Not sure how they overturned that one.