Dumbass broadcaster just said "excellent defense"

AHHHHHHHHHH

I know you have to get fouled pretty hard with time running out like that but DEAR LORD!!!! That qualifies.

He was actually fouled pretty hard by two Nuggets.

A microcosm of this game.

After they called that b.s. on duncan they turn around nad let that slide. Give me a break!!!! This is too obvious a case of favoritism. Thanks refs for letting some whiny ass coach affect your officiating.

no way was that a foul - you guys are nuts.

****!!!!!!!!



Refs are picking up where they left off.

quote:

---

no way was that a foul - you guys are nuts.

---

Are you serious?

He was slapped in the face as he was shooting by one nugget and the other nugget hit his arm.

After reviewing it on my DVR 15 or so times the refs actually made the right call there (1st time for everything). Looked like Buckner got clean ball and it was jarred loose before Camby comes over and hits Manu.

Either way looks like SA is taking care of bid'ness right now.

Aggie"Eyes"

Watch it again. Specifically the part where Manu gets knocked square in the face. Forget about what they do to his arm.

Seriously, watch again.

HAHA - I liked the "Eyes".

I can't seem to get that angle regarding Manu's face. Perhaps my handle is a bit of a misnomer?

He got hit in the face by Buckner's arm coming through after he already knocked the ball away.

holden is partly right... there was contact

however, manu did way too much to initiate it...

usually you only get a foul call in the closing seconds if you did not initiate it

exactly - the ball was already loose.

quote:

---

however, manu did way too much to initiate it...

---

Manu's face ran into the fist?

that's what we're saying...

quote:

---

exactly - the ball was already loose.

---

I remind you of Denver's last possession in regulation. Carmello drove to the bucket, shot the ball, THEN after he released it Duncan grazed Mello's wrist. They called a foul.

holden's point is they weren't consistent... he's right about that

i was just saying for them to call a foul with almost no time left, it has to be a real clear cut and almost intentional foul

In defense of the refs, sitting and watching from my vantage point (on my couch at 12:45AM) I didn't think that foul was hard enough to call, considering it was an "end of the game" foul. I don't have TIVO, but maybe it is better that I don't, because that no call didn't particularly bother me.

When you compare it to the fouls against Duncan for the fingertip touch to Melos wrist, you HAVE to call the follow through face slap. And, what is this crap about it not being intentional. He clearly intended to put his hand up and block the shot and the face slap was the result. Textbook foul.

Problem is, there was no way the refs were going to call that foul or any foul against Denver with Manu handling the ball with the game tied up at the end. Could you imagine the fans sitting through 3 hours of constant whistling. Then watching your team close the gap at the end to tie it up and then have the game "stolen" from you by the much criticized officials on a call against public enemy #1 Ginobli?

There would have been a lynching of officials in the parking lot.

What about the phantom foul #6 1 minute into OT on Duncan when 'Melo slipped in the lane. Duncan was a good 2 feet away from any contact whatsoever.

I'm so glad the Spurs have learned to play through these games and ignore the God-awful favoritized officiated games such as this one and keep their composure. Up yours Dick Bavetta - looks like you aren't getting your bonus for this game.

[This message has been edited by jmtamu (edited 5/3/2005 9:29a).]

From a neutral observer:
1) Manu had completed his shooting motion and the ball was already gone when Camby got him. Refs would have been crazy to call that foul in that situation.
2) Duncan's foul on Melo was legit. He got him on the wrist preventing the follow through. That's a foul every time.
3) The other call on Duncan was absolutely atrocious. It was a slip.

[This message has been edited by grego (edited 5/3/2005 9:45a).]

I subjectively agree completely with your objective analysis Grego on all points.

Grego, I have to ask if you actually watched the shot that manu attempted.

How can you say "Manu had completed his shooting motion" when Camby(?? I thought it was Buckner) efffectively blocked the shot bnefore it even left Manu's hands. The ball was out of his hands, but only because it was blocked out and in the same motion that blocked the shot, Buckners hand continued to travel through the block and into Manu's face. Clear foul, especially in the context of how they were calling the rest of the game.

At that point in the game, as poorly as it had been officiated (on both sides), the last thing the refs wanted to do was make the foul call that results in free throws, which ultimately decide the outcome of the game.
Furthermore, for those who are saying that they HAD to call it because of other touch fouls in the game, this to me shows a lack of historical perspective. The very last foul in the game is ALWAYS the hardest one to get called, mainly because it is not good for basketball to have games constantly being decided by free throws.

The Spurs had to know all of this, and to run a play that would isolate a head-first player and run him into the lane was a very poor choice IMO. They HAD TO KNOW that unless Manu was clearly sledgehammered on the play, they wouldn't get the call. The fact that we are currently arguing about it seems to indicate to me that it was a close enough call that in the thick of things, the refs were justified in the "no call".
No harm done though. The deserving team won in the end.

sips - From my perspective, I thought Buck had a clean block and Camby got him with the body afterward.

>>Carmello drove to the bucket, shot the ball, THEN after he released it Duncan grazed Mello's wrist. They called a foul.<<

The hit on the wrist was pretty much simultaneous with the shot, and it was clearly within the act of shooting.

It was a foul. Not even questionable.

Mass, in principle, I agree with you %100. NOBODY would want to see a normal intense game like that decided by a free throw.

That's what made last night's travesty so glaring. Within the context of the game manipulation by the officials (this is not even disputable, look at the stats for the first 3 games compared to this one), the call for Manu to draw the foul SHOULD have been the right play. After watching foul call after foul call, the natural assumption is that they are going to continue to make that call. If this no-call had been made in games 1-3, I wouldn't be upset about it. But the sudden change of attitude about fouls in the LAST SHOT OF REGULATION is the kind of crap that adds legitimacy to comments like that made by Gundy and Karl.

[This message has been edited by sips-lose (edited 5/3/2005 12:21p).]

I wouldn't believe that a coach as solid as Pop would draw up a play simply to try to win on a foul call.

In fact, after the play, he seemed to be yelling at Manu for not passing the ball, as oppositing to crying about a no-call.

[This message has been edited by grego (edited 5/3/2005 2:35p).]

Grego, actually I do remember Pop getting on him after the play. I only meant that the play call would have been logical considering the way the foul calls had been made. I'm sure they would have been just as happy for Manu to take it all the way in or dump it off. I don't think that the play call was "let's win this one at the foul line"

grego is correct, Pop was up in Manu's ace after that shot. He had the Fresh Prince wide open at the 3. Fresh Prince would not have missed that shot, he always nails those. Had Manu made the right decision we would have won in regulation, he didn't, we still won. Quit b*tching people....jesus! Newsflash: we won the f'in game! There were bad calls on both ends (yes if you can't tell by now, I'm a huge Spurs fan), so get over it.

I swear, if I were to ever watch a game with HOLDEN or someone of the like, I'd end up punching them in the grill before it was over. Are you on pills for high blood pressue? Relax guys, some of you hit the panic button way too soon.....


- Don't you understand? It's not about him. To have a line as perfect as jerk store and to never use it. I couldn't live with myself.

It's smart...it's a smart line, and a smart crowd will appreciate it. And, I'm not gonna dumb it down for some bonehead mass audience!!

quote:

---

I swear, if I were to ever watch a game with HOLDEN or someone of the like, I'd end up punching them in the grill before it was over.

---

If you even touch me in your dreams you better wake up and apologize son.

quote:

---

I wouldn't believe that a coach as solid as Pop would draw up a play simply to try to win on a foul call.

In fact, after the play, he seemed to be yelling at Manu for not passing the ball, as oppositing to crying about a no-call.

---

So??????????????????


Who cares what play was drawn up? A foul is a foul!

quote:

---

The hit on the wrist was pretty much simultaneous with the shot, and it was clearly within the act of shooting.

---

"pretty much" = 1 full second AFTER the ball was released

Watch it again.

fyi, if you hit them on their followthrough, it's still a foul. look at the fouls called when a 3 point shooter gets knocked over well after his shot.

I totally agree 07 which is why a foul should have been called at the end of the game.

gotcha, just another example of how inconsistent and horrible the refs have been this postseason.