Athleticism vs Shooting

2,139 Views | 33 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by Method Man
Wearamaskaggie
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I was thinking about how last year sans Robert Williams and Gilder, we really had no juice when we played, no raw athleticism to impact games, nor shooting for the matter. With this upcoming class we get a big shot in the arm in terms of athleticism, I think this could potentially solve a ton of our problems that we had this year, namely breaking a defense down and attacking, which of course will open up the rest of the game. This leads to my question, would you rather have a team full of athletes that can jump out the gym and run the floor, or a team that can consistently shoot at a high clip and spread the floor, and actually hit free throws. I'm curious as to what you all would rather have. I feel that sometimes athleticism just wins out and sometimes talent and skill wins out, I'd prefer the athletes however, what about ya'll?
Deputy Travis Junior
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Depends on the degree, but assuming that the shooters aren't 3-legged dog slow, I'd go with them. You can run plays to generate open looks regardless of athleticism, and speed isn't as important for big men. On the other hand, if you have 5 guys who can't shoot outside of 10-15', the other team will play off of them on the perimeter and then clog the paint when they drive.
PatAg
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Athleticism does not equal ability to penetrate off the dribble..or have a mind for basketball
Wearamaskaggie
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You can't be slow and penetrate past a D 1 athlete on offense, having athleticism certainly helps!
biobioprof
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Do you care about defense?
Method Man
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TangoMike
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EKG1996
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Wearamaskaggie
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I mean you could scheme around it, but if you're building a team, which would you rather start with?
Richierich2323
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I would take athleticism but I am a defensive coach who likes to run in transition and play 3 on 2, 2 on 1 etc.

I also think its a whole lot easier to teach someone how to play fundamental basketball than it is to get them more athletic. Although, those athletes have to be smart and hungry (hard to find).

I do agree though that with schemes you can win with skilled players that are not as athletic...but I think you have to have athleticism in certain areas inside of that to be special. For instance, an athletic big man is a game changer and the more that I coach and watch basketball the more I would take a star big man over a star point guard that can protect the rim and get off/def rebounds in bunches.

mazag08
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Jordan Green, Ray Turner, Naji Hibbert, and Keith Davis are what you get when you recruit pure athleticism. Two of those turned out to be decent role players, the other two were completely garbage.

Give me shooters all day.
wacarnolds
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mazag08 said:

Jordan Green, Ray Turner, Naji Hibbert, and Keith Davis are what you get when you recruit pure athleticism. Two of those turned out to be decent role players, the other two were completely garbage.

Give me shooters all day.
Not choosing a side, but I noticed you left off guys like Robert Williams, Donald Sloan, Derrick Roland, Chin Elonu when talking about recruiting athleticism
mazag08
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wacarnolds said:

mazag08 said:

Jordan Green, Ray Turner, Naji Hibbert, and Keith Davis are what you get when you recruit pure athleticism. Two of those turned out to be decent role players, the other two were completely garbage.

Give me shooters all day.
Not choosing a side, but I noticed you left off guys like Robert Williams, Donald Sloan, Derrick Roland, Chin Elonu when talking about recruiting athleticism


Donald Sloan was not drafted as a pure athlete that needed to be developed. He was a scoring slasher that was highly recruited. Williams and Chin weren't drafted on pure athleticism, both had the size factor and usable skills. I'll give you Roland. Sure, some will pan out.. like I originally said.. but I would rather take my chances with guys who can let it fly and provide scoring without needing to learn basketball IQ first.
GE
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mazag08 said:

wacarnolds said:

mazag08 said:

Jordan Green, Ray Turner, Naji Hibbert, and Keith Davis are what you get when you recruit pure athleticism. Two of those turned out to be decent role players, the other two were completely garbage.

Give me shooters all day.
Not choosing a side, but I noticed you left off guys like Robert Williams, Donald Sloan, Derrick Roland, Chin Elonu when talking about recruiting athleticism
Donald Sloan was not drafted as a pure athlete that needed to be developed. He was a scoring slasher that was highly recruited. Williams and Chin weren't drafted on pure athleticism, both had the size factor and usable skills. I'll give you Roland. Sure, some will pan out.. like I originally said.. but I would rather take my chances with guys who can let it fly and provide scoring without needing to learn basketball IQ first.
If the underlying question is do you prefer an athlete that isn't a very good basketball player or a great shooter who isn't a great athlete, then I think pretty much anyone is going to select the shooter that's not a great athlete. I interpreted the question as would you rather have a great athlete who can play ball but doesn't have a great shot or somebody who is a lights out shooter but not that athletic.

I was thinking more of Ben Simmons vs. Dirk Nowitzki rather than Josh Carter vs. true freshman Deandre Jordan.
wacarnolds
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mazag08 said:

wacarnolds said:

mazag08 said:

Jordan Green, Ray Turner, Naji Hibbert, and Keith Davis are what you get when you recruit pure athleticism. Two of those turned out to be decent role players, the other two were completely garbage.

Give me shooters all day.
Not choosing a side, but I noticed you left off guys like Robert Williams, Donald Sloan, Derrick Roland, Chin Elonu when talking about recruiting athleticism


Donald Sloan was not drafted as a pure athlete that needed to be developed. He was a scoring slasher that was highly recruited. Williams and Chin weren't drafted on pure athleticism, both had the size factor and usable skills. I'll give you Roland. Sure, some will pan out.. like I originally said.. but I would rather take my chances with guys who can let it fly and provide scoring without needing to learn basketball IQ first.

How are you differentiating between Donald Sloan (shooter) and Naji Hibbert (athlete)?

Same for Keith Davis (athlete) vs Elonu (shooter)?

Seems arbitrary, but you might have some reasoning that I'm missing.
mdanyc03
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Quote:

would you rather have a team full of athletes that can jump out the gym and run the floor, or a team that can consistently shoot at a high clip and spread the floor, and actually hit free throws.
Not really sure how anybody could answer a question like this considering that the two are both obviously good and in no way mutually exclusive or even negatively correlated.

Does my athletic team shoot 65% on free throws or 50% or 0%? Is my shooting team a bunch of slugs or average athleticism?
Pumpkinhead
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Method Man said:

Ray Turner vs elston Turner


Pumpkinhead vs pumpkinhead
mazag08
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GE said:

mazag08 said:

wacarnolds said:

mazag08 said:

Jordan Green, Ray Turner, Naji Hibbert, and Keith Davis are what you get when you recruit pure athleticism. Two of those turned out to be decent role players, the other two were completely garbage.

Give me shooters all day.
Not choosing a side, but I noticed you left off guys like Robert Williams, Donald Sloan, Derrick Roland, Chin Elonu when talking about recruiting athleticism
Donald Sloan was not drafted as a pure athlete that needed to be developed. He was a scoring slasher that was highly recruited. Williams and Chin weren't drafted on pure athleticism, both had the size factor and usable skills. I'll give you Roland. Sure, some will pan out.. like I originally said.. but I would rather take my chances with guys who can let it fly and provide scoring without needing to learn basketball IQ first.
If the underlying question is do you prefer an athlete that isn't a very good basketball player or a great shooter who isn't a great athlete, then I think pretty much anyone is going to select the shooter that's not a great athlete. I interpreted the question as would you rather have a great athlete who can play ball but doesn't have a great shot or somebody who is a lights out shooter but not that athletic.

I was thinking more of Ben Simmons vs. Dirk Nowitzki rather than Josh Carter vs. true freshman Deandre Jordan.


I gotcha. I was interpreting it as the marginal recruits.
Method Man
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TangoMike
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Method Man
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mazag08 said:

Jordan Green, Ray Turner, Naji Hibbert, and Keith Davis are what you get when you recruit pure athleticism. Two of those turned out to be decent role players, the other two were completely garbage.

Give me shooters all day.


Hibbert and Keith Davis weren't especially athletic.
Method Man
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Michael Jordan vs Montell Jordan
GE
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Jerry West vs. Jerry Springer
bobinator
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I'd rather have skilled players that are only mildly athletic than athletic players who are only mildly skilled.

This is kind of like, would you rather have Vanderbilt's team or Arkansas' team.
GrayMatter
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Skill more so than athleticism.

I feel like you can be athletic all you want, but if you can't stay in front of your man, block out your man, shoot, dribble or pass with high efficiency then its harder to develop as a player because your safety net will always be your athleticism.
wacarnolds
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Quote:

This is kind of like, would you rather have Vanderbilt's team or Arkansas' team.
Was thinking this exact thing, except Vandy vs LSU
mdanyc03
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Hmmm, I thought Vandy was plenty athletic. Or at least Riley LeChance and Matthew Fisher Davis made pretty much all of our guards except Admon look like parking cones.

I know, who didn't? But Vandy always exposed our limited athleticism on the perimeter worse than anybody else.

Toye and Roberson are pretty athletic too. Who are their "un athletic" guys? Cressler and Cornette?
mdanyc03
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Side note- Vandy is going to be a nightmare to guard next year too. Maxwell Evans from Houston is going to be good for them from day 1.
Wearamaskaggie
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Let's just say they aren't blowing past anyone, and aren't great on Defense, serviceable at best, and for the other side it would be that they shot a mediocre % as a team.
Method Man
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wacarnolds
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method man and redman
bobinator
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mdanyc03 said:

Hmmm, I thought Vandy was plenty athletic. Or at least Riley LeChance and Matthew Fisher Davis made pretty much all of our guards except Admon look like parking cones.

I know, who didn't? But Vandy always exposed our limited athleticism on the perimeter worse than anybody else.

Toye and Roberson are pretty athletic too. Who are their "un athletic" guys? Cressler and Cornette?
But I think they exposed with their shooting, spacing and skill mostly, not by supreme athleticism.

Keep in mind that we had neither shooting nor athleticism past Admon and sometimes Hampton at the guard position, so just because they might have been able to blow by one of our guys doesn't necessarily mean they were athletic.
GE
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wacarnolds said:

method man and redman
Deserved Academy Awards for their moving performances in How High.
BrandoC
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I was thinking the same thing all year. Hogg and Trocha play no defense and shooting percentages were **** this year. If Davis is on he is on, if he is off he is off the entire game. Need more guys we are aggressive and athletic not slow and have no gumption.
Method Man
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wacarnolds said:

method man and redman
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