ESPN: Most Prestigious Basketball Program

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ProphAC
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Big 12
T-57. Iowa State
T-90. Texas Tech T-124. Kansas State
T-141. Nebraska
174. Texas A&M
219. Colorado
T-266. Baylor

I know we suck when it comes to Basketball Prestige but this is the list of B12 teams so far released... notice who is still below us.
ProphAC
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http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3481843#51
ProphAC
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Counting down the most prestigious programs since 1984-85
By Harold Shelton, Nick Loucks and Chris Fallica
ESPN Research

Updated: July 21, 2008

What is prestige? What does a college basketball program have to do to prove its prestige? What program is the most prestigious? And who's to judge?

This summer, we decided to tackle the hundreds of Division I men's college basketball teams, weighing the thousands of regular-season and postseason wins and losses, the NBA draft picks, the All-Americans and the national titles to come up with a numerical point system to provide unbiased rankings of every college hoops program's success since the start of the 1984-85 season. Normally when you see these rankings, they are the "expert" opinion of one or more people whose knowledge (and sanity) usually is questioned by those who disagree.

But with ESPN's Prestige Rankings, there is no such argument. We let the numbers do the talking. We assigned point values for certain successes (win a national title, earn 25 points) and failures (get your program banned from the NCAA tournament, lose three points), put all the seasons through our big calculator and came up with the No. 1 program (and the No. 300 program) of the past 24 seasons.

Why cut it off at the 1984-85 season?
The 1985 postseason was the first NCAA tournament that was expanded to the 64-team format (precursor to the current 65-team format), in which a champion must play at least six games to win a national title. That span -- 24 seasons -- is a large enough sample size to get a true barometer of a program's recent history.

This is also an era of the game in which parity has ruled. UCLA will not top the rankings thanks to its domination in the '60s and '70s. NC State, San Francisco, Wyoming and CCNY aren't cracking the Top 50 because their national titles came before 1985. Minnesota won't get credit for having two top-two NBA draft picks in the '70s.

It was a different world for college basketball back then, and those accomplishments, as remarkable as they are, aren't a factor here.

Explanation of the scoring system
We wanted to account for a program's positive accomplishments. National titles and deep advances in the NCAA tournament are the big point-getters.

Having the best record in your conference's regular season is a fairly big deal, as well. We didn't just give out points here for conference titles. (Considering how many conferences are split into divisions and award shares of the title for, say, a 12-6 team from the West Division when a 14-4 team is in the East Division. In this scoring system, the 14-4 team would be the only one to earn five points.)

We also doled out four points for conference tournament titles. These were given fewer points than a regular-season title because a three- or four-day stretch of domination in your conference shouldn't be rewarded as much as a season-long one. For conferences that didn't hold conference tourneys (notably the Pac-10 and Big Ten for years and the Ivy currently), we simply awarded the points to the team that was given the conference's automatic bid to that year's NCAA tournament.

What about Cinderellas? We all remember 15th-seeded Richmond over Syracuse and 15th-seeded Hampton over Iowa State, and first-round upset wins by 12- through 16-seeds are rewarded accordingly.

We also had to factor in negatives. When your highly seeded team falls flat on its face in the first round against a no-name school, your program loses two points. When your team is caught breaking the rules and the NCAA bans it from the postseason, that is an embarrassment for the fan base. Same thing goes for losing seasons. Both cost your program three points in our rankings.

• National title … 25
• Title game loss … 20
• National semifinal loss … 15
• Elite Eight loss … 10
• Best record in conference's regular season … 5
• 30-plus wins in a season … 5
• Sweet 16 loss … 5
• Conference tournament title … 3
• AP first-team All-American … 3
• Losing in NCAA second round … 3
• Player in top 10 of NBA draft … 2
• NCAA first-round win as a 12-16-seed … 2
• NIT title … 2
• AP second-team All-American … 2
• 20-29 wins in a season … 1
• NCAA tournament berth … 1
• Postseason NIT berth … 1
• AP third-team All-American … 1
• NCAA first-round loss vs. 12-16-seed … -2
• Losing season … -3
• Ban from NCAA tournament … -3
>> Minimum 15 seasons in Division I
** Ties are broken by overall winning percentage since the 1984-85 season
^^ Teams are listed by their current conferences

Using the 15-season minimum, 41 current D-I schools won't qualify, giving us exactly 300 schools.
elen2009
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but, but, we're a Top 25 team over the past three years
ProphAC
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Looks like Baylor was punished for the "incident" they had a few years a go... that set them back to the bottom of the B12. Still we were not last even though we fell under the "underachievers" category.
ProphAC
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-3 for a losing season... that killed us. Negated everything we have done in recent history.
ProphAC
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Familiar names outside the Top 50
By Harold Shelton, Nick Loucks and Chris Fallica
ESPN Research

Updated: July 21, 2008

Yes, we're counting down the Top 50 programs. But not to be forgotten are the other 250 qualifying Division I teams. Here are some of the highlights of those outside the Top 50:

• Some of the best-known schools that failed to crack our Top 50 include NC State (52), Marquette (T-61), Boston College (T-70), Tennessee (99) and USC (T-132). These schools are mostly in these spots because they play in ultracompetitive conferences where they have failed to rack up tons of conference titles.

• Everyone's favorite mid-major conference, the Missouri Valley, didn't have a Top 50 team. Southern Illinois was the top-ranked MVC program, coming in with a tie at No. 53.

• The lowest-rated school that made a Final Four since 1985 was Providence (T-111), which was just behind George Mason (100), another one-time Final Four team.

• The school with the most NCAA tournament appearances to not appear in the Top 50 is Iowa State (T-57). The Cyclones' 12 NCAA tournament appearances were canceled out by weak showings in conference play. Only twice did they earn the best win-loss record in their conference.

• The school with the most conference tournament titles to not appear in the Top 50 is Winthrop at No. 79. The Eagles have won nine Big South titles.

• Notre Dame is in a tie with Mississippi State at No. 86, mostly because the Irish weren't part of a conference until joining the Big East in 1995. But despite being in the league for more than a decade, they still don't have a conference title -- regular-season or tournament.

• The lowest-rated school to have earned a 1-seed is Washington (T-125), dragged down by 12 losing seasons.

• Of the schools that were eliminated because they didn't have the minimum 15 Division I seasons, the school that would have finished the highest is Belmont (132).

• Northwestern was the lowest-ranked school from a BCS conference. The Wildcats are tied with Morgan State at No. 291 (with an astounding minus-59 points).

• The lowest-rated program that had the benefit of at least one All-American was Oregon State (T-245), which had Gary Payton in 1990.

• La Salle (T-132) is the lowest-rated program that has enjoyed a 30-win season since 1984-85. It came in the 1989-90 season, when the Explorers went 30-2 under longtime coach Speedy Morris. La Salle was a 4-seed that year in the NCAA tournament but bowed out in the second round. That also happened to be the last season the program won an NCAA tournament game.

• The highest-rated program to fail to win an NCAA tournament game since 1985 was Louisiana-Monroe (T-96). The Warhawks have had six tries, failing to get closer than a dozen points in any of them.

• How about South Carolina? The Gamecocks are two-time winners of the postseason NIT but could do no better than tied for 186th place. But those NIT titles catapulted them ahead of SEC foe Ole Miss, sending the Rebels to the bottom of the SEC barrel in a tie at No. 190.

• In case you wanted another reason why Drake's improbable 2007-08 season was truly remarkable, here it is: The Bulldogs accumulated minus-45 points overall in our scoring system. That's despite a nine-point tally this past season. That 20-win season and those regular-season and Missouri Valley Conference titles (along with the penalty for a first-round loss to 12th-seeded Western Kentucky) single-handedly erased the heartbreak of nine losing seasons.

Harold Shelton, Nick Loucks and Chris Fallica are researchers at ESPN.

Lsal
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Just shows how far we've come.
XL2Win
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Any penalty points for having ever had Melvin Watkins on the payroll? If not there ought to be.

Should also be a penalty for anybody who thought Melvin was the answer after his 3rd season.
Gap
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Why not roll the time frame back to 1940 and talk about he prestige of CCNY, San Francisco, and Army?
aghop09
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quote:
Just shows how far we've come.


I would love to see where we would have been pre-BCG era... definitely in the lower 1/6
ProphAC
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It's going to take a decade of dominance to erase our losing history with this scoring system. Hopefully we don't settle back into old ways.
WestTexasAg
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Nebraska??
JMJLAW
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no offense to those at LaSalle, Northeastern, or Manhattan, but I will take a wild guess and say recruits would find A&M much more prestigious...

Prestige, IMO, is more a function of "what have you done for me lately" than ESPN would give credit for.
Texdoc
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Mizzou #37

Okie state #32

HOOK 'EM,
Texdoc
houstontexan
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i'd have thought okie lite would be a little higher.
bassale47
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quote:
Prestige, IMO, is more a function of "what have you done for me lately" than ESPN would give credit for.


ESPN is giving plenty of credit for "what have you done for me lately." Look at the scoring system. It's just that "what have you done for me lately" needs to include major things, like conference titles, deep tournament runs, and lottery picks, not just a few tournament berths and a Sweet 16 appearance.
Texdoc
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Ohio state #27

Mich #22

Florida (even with back 2 back titles) #21

No Big 12 schools btw 30 & 21

HOOK 'EM,
Texdoc
gougler08
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OU is top 20? I didn't realize they were all that good in bball?
PlanoGuy
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quote:
OU is top 20? I didn't realize they were all that good in bball?
OU has been to 2 final fours during this time span, been ranked #1 several seasons. During the past 25 seasons I think they made the NCAA tournament 20+ times. They have won 71% of their games.


"F PlanoGuy!!" - Maroon & White Recruiting Forum

[This message has been edited by PlanoGuy (edited 7/23/2008 3:18p).]
bobinator
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Planown3d
gougler08
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alright, you can tell when I started paying attention to college bball (about 5-6 years ago)
Bob in Houston
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Sooners will come in close to top 10.

Longhorns at 20.
EliteZags
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quote:
NIT title � 2
� NCAA tournament berth � 1
� Postseason NIT berth � 1


WTF???

the way it should be:

NCAA tournament berth 1
NIT title 0.5
Postseason NIT berth 0.1
PlanoGuy
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quote:
18. TEXAS LONGHORNS, Big 12
Positives: 16 20-win seasons; 2 30-win seasons; 18 NCAA berths; 4 Elite Eights; 4 first-team All-Americans; 5 NBA top-10 picks
Negatives: 3 losing seasons; just 2 conference tourney titles, the fewest of any team in the Top 20
Total points: 186
Did you know? The arrival of Tom Penders in 1988 turned around a program that was mediocre for a decade. The run under Rick Barnes this decade (seven 20-win campaigns, two 30-win seasons and 10 straight NCAA tourney appearances, including the 2003 Final Four) puts the Longhorns in the Top 20.

quote:
12. OKLAHOMA SOONERS, Big 12
Positives: 10 conference titles (4 regular-season, 6 tourney); 20 20-win seasons; 4 30-win seasons; 19 NCAA berths; 5 No. 1 seeds, the fifth-most since 1984-85; 2 Final Fours; 6 All-Americans; win over 4th-ranked Arizona in 1999; 0 losing seasons
Negatives: lost to 13th-seeded Louisiana-Lafayette in 1992, lost to 13th-seeded Manhattan in 1995, lost to 13th-seeded Indiana State in 2001
Total points: 221
Did you know? Despite not having a national title banner hanging from their rafters, the Sooners are ranked this high due to consistency. They never had a losing season in the last 24 years, and they won at least 20 games 20 times. Reasonable NCAA tournament success (five No. 1 seeds, two Final Fours and a title game appearance) puts OU in the top dozen.



"F PlanoGuy!!" - Maroon & White Recruiting Forum
D.J. Flores
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iowa st? really?
PlanoGuy
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quote:
iowa st? really?

you must have just become a college basketball fan in the last 3-4 years


"F PlanoGuy!!" - Maroon & White Recruiting Forum
AgNurse70
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What has tceh ever done beside have a high profile coach?
wealeat09
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There is a formula you cant really argue the rankings, only the actual formula.
94chem
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quote:
• National title … 25 (20)
• Title game loss … 20 (16)
• National semifinal loss … 15 (12)
• Elite Eight loss … 10 (8)
• Best record in conference's regular season … 5 (3)
• 30-plus wins in a season … 5 (3)
• Sweet 16 loss … 5 (4)
• Conference tournament title … 3 (1)
• AP first-team All-American … 3 (1)
• Losing in NCAA second round … 3 (2)
• Player in top 10 of NBA draft … 2 (1)
• NCAA first-round win as a 12-16-seed … 2 (0)
• NIT title … 2 (1)
• AP second-team All-American … 2 (1)
• 20-29 wins in a season … 1
• NCAA tournament berth … 1 (2)
• Postseason NIT berth … 1 (0)
• AP third-team All-American … 1 (0)
• NCAA first-round loss vs. 12-16-seed … -2 (0)
• Losing season … -3 (-1)
• Ban from NCAA tournament … -3 (-1)
>> Minimum 15 seasons in Division I
** Ties are broken by overall winning percentage since the 1984-85 season
^^ Teams are listed by their current conferences



I put what I thought things should be worth in parentheses. A fun way to do it would be to have a poll for what each thing should be worth. Take the fan-approved averages, then re-crunch the numbers. But I'm an egghead...

[This message has been edited by 94chem (edited 7/26/2008 3:27p).]
chickity china
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a team should get more points for making the nit quarerfinal rather than making the ncaa tourny...
PlanoGuy
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quote:
a team should get more points for making the nit quarerfinal rather than making the ncaa tourny...
So what you are saying is that 68th or 69th place is better than 65th place?


"F PlanoGuy!!" - Maroon & White Recruiting Forum
94chem
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quote:
a team should get more points for making the nit quarerfinal rather than making the ncaa tourny...


Fortunately I have my faith and my family to rely upon, or else the mind-numbing stupidity of such statements might do me in.
Spirit of Aggieland
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surf
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quote:
a team should get more points for making the nit quarerfinal rather than making the ncaa tourny...

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