The "Missed Shots" Argument?

832 Views | 20 Replies | Last: 17 yr ago by 4stringAg
rosco511
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For those people who constantly utilize the argument that the players just "missed shots" to support the opinion that the playes are more to blame for the unmet expectations than the coach, I have one quick question: How do you separate a good coach from a bad one?

While "missing shots" can certainly explain losses every now and then, it seems to me that every coach at every level, whether good or bad, could always say that if my players had made more shots we would have won. For instance, had the players made more shots while Melvin was here, he too would have been successful.

I, for one, do not base my criticism of Turgeon purely on the fact that we "missed shots." I believe that this team lacks the intensity and work ethic that was present under the prior regime. I believe that the offense is often stagnant and lacks a direction and a plan, which leads to many outside or contested shots that have a higher percentage of producing "missed shots." I believe that simple fundamental mistakes on the offensive end, such as rolling after a screen, avoiding a travel on the low block, and setting good quality screens, have yet to be corrected throughout the season, even though such problems were present since the beginning.

These factors, along with many others, lead a team to "missing shots," and in my opinion, can be corrected (certainly with the talent we have). Thus, I am of the opinion that "missing shots" does not explain our problems.

[This message has been edited by rosco511 (edited 3/3/2008 2:44p).]
XL2Win
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Missing shots doesn't explain our problems.

It's like blaming the players when the O-line can't open holes. Sometimes it IS the players, but if you have good talent, a lot of it is blocking schemes. Who's good blocking left or blocking right? Who's effective at pulling? Who can overpower a defender? Who needs to finesee the defender? It's NOT just about execution. If the play is drawn up poorly and doesn't consider the talents of the players, then it's not fair to lay the blame at their feet alone.

Our offensive schemes ... well, they suck. We aren't doing the things needed to get the most out of the talent. Sure DK misses a layup. Acie missed one against Memphis. It happens. But we aren't running the offense to match the talent.

It's not ALL on Turgeon, but it's damn sure NOT all on the players either. If the players aren't moving in the motion offense, then there is a HUGE coaching issue involved.


[This message has been edited by XL2Win (edited 3/3/2008 2:49p).]
houstontexan
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in a game like the other day, NO team is going to win that ****.

but constantly using the "you've gotta hit shots" argument is pretty futile. it pretty much leads to the conclusion that no coach is ever really to blame for anything.
oklacityag75
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We are the biggest and most physical team in the Big XII. Why are we shooting from 15-25 feet? Why aren't we pounding the ball inside, drawing fouls, and controlling the game?

NO DISCIPLINE!
Professional Ag
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I'm listening to his media conference audio and he started with this.

He even said it made him feel better about himself that there were open shots. Just missed them.

Again, him putting it only on the players as he's done after every single loss.
superdales
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to turg's defense, we did have a TON of open looks during the dry spell that just didn't fall. not to say we shouldn't have been pounding the ball down low and get to the foul line more . . . but he is right - we had open shots.
hoya-ag
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The problem is we aren't just missing shots. We are missing them at crucial times. The Sloan layups at the end. BD's slip and fall. Wide open threes when we are gaining momentum, etc.
FJB
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If you can't hit from the outside, you need to go to the rim. You either get fouled or you dunk/lay the ball in. Feed the big guys.
rosco511
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I'm not saying we did not "miss open shots" on Saturday, or in our other losses this season.

I'm just wondering from the people who emphatically state that "missing shots" is the reason for our disappointing performances this season, where (and what) makes you stop blaming the players and start blaming the coach?

Like I said, all coaches, including bad ones, could ultimately claim that missed shots was the ultimate reason they lost.
XL2Win
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I'm waiting for the inevitable:

The reason we lost is because we were outscored. We were outscored because they scored more points than we did. They scored more points than we did because we can't shoot as well as they do. "they" being every team we play of any consequence and a few others.
hoya-ag
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IMO opinion the coaches job is to put you into positions to score. I think MT has done this to some extent, but when we have been cold we don't seem to have any plays that get easy buckets. I think he has done a good job at trying to sub people in and out to find a 5 that can create some rhythm. I also think that you can't run a play every time down the court. The players are going to have to be able to create some on their own, but i would like to see some sets that get us easier points. If I had to guess though we have missed more layups and close shots than almost any team out there.
mhayden_original
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The job of the coach is to put his team in a position to win.

If your jump shots aren't falling, you change the gameplan to feed the big men down low.

If the big men down low aren't able to score, you change the gameplan to have the guards drive to the bucket and score.

If the guards aren't able to drive to the bucket to score, you change the gameplan to draw some fouls and get to the free throw line.

If the guards can't get to the free throw line, you change the gameplan and press to try and create turnovers and fast break opportunities.


There's more than one way to win a basketball game, but it seems like if Turgeon's initial plan is not working, he never adjusts and we end up looking lost for an entire game rather than 3-4 minutes.

If the initial gameplan works, a Turgeon team can blow out teams they are better than.

If the initial gameplan doesn't work, Turgeon is going to get beat by teams that aren't better.
Franz Joseph
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Its the same argument that Fran is a good coach, even though we only score 0 to 7 points in the first half of every Big 12 game.
Ag with kids
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quote:
in a game like the other day, NO team is going to win that ****.


Being at the game, it was just ridiculous how crappy our shooting was. I was up at the top behind our basket the 1st half and you could see the trajectory on 2/3 of the shots and KNOW they weren't going in...

When we finally scored 4 min into the 2nd half, everyone where we were sitting jumped up and yelled like we'd just taken the lead...it was getting to the point of being comical...

The guy beside me spent most of the 2nd half surfing the web on his iPhone...I assume because he got bored watching us miss...he did make a funny comment at one point in the 2nd half, though, that we were on a 4-2 run...

quote:
to turg's defense, we did have a TON of open looks during the dry spell that just didn't fall.


We REALLY did...we just couldn't make ANYTHING fall...

I think that wide open missed layup towards the end of the game just personified the ENTIRE game...we couldn't make ANYTHING....

quote:
If your jump shots aren't falling, you change the gameplan to feed the big men down low.

If the big men down low aren't able to score, you change the gameplan to have the guards drive to the bucket and score.

If the guards aren't able to drive to the bucket to score, you change the gameplan to draw some fouls and get to the free throw line.

If the guards can't get to the free throw line, you change the gameplan and press to try and create turnovers and fast break opportunities.


We tried ALL of those in the game...

We couldn't score worth a crap doing any of them...
superbowlringd
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LAZINESS......... Why do all that work to get the ball inside --just shoot from the outside. If you miss and we don't get the rebound it's not my fault --I shot the ball. One shot and miss, Sooners get the rebound because they wanted to win more then we did, it is that simple.
dcaggie04
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For those saying that we need to pound it inside all day if we can't hit outside shots need to learn one thing: when we do that all the other team has to do is switch to zone and our low post game will be pretty much gone. So since that is gone (and dribble penetration also), we would have to rely on our outside shooting to beat the zone. But we couldn't hit an outside shot. So explain to me how you would draw up the offense in that situation.

rosco511
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quote:
For those saying that we need to pound it inside all day if we can't hit outside shots need to learn one thing: when we do that all the other team has to do is switch to zone and our low post game will be pretty much gone. So since that is gone (and dribble penetration also), we would have to rely on our outside shooting to beat the zone. But we couldn't hit an outside shot. So explain to me how you would draw up the offense in that situation.


There quite a few ways to beat a zone without dribble penetration and outside shots. They all require utilizing a mid-post player and another player to run the baseline. The problem is that if players are unwilling to feed the mid-post player and the player running the baseline is not in the correct fundamental position, then they will not work.
Ag_EE_88
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So since we have no proven outside shooters coming in next year, should we expect more 25% shooting days and 30-40 point blowout losses? Oh, and before you start pointing to Dash, I'd like to see him in an Aggie uniform producing all start performances before crowning him the next coming of DeAndre Jordan.
XL2Win
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quote:
before you start pointing to Dash, I'd like to see him in an Aggie uniform producing all start performances before crowning him the next coming of DeAndre Jordan.


Amen.

I said the same thing about DJ before the season started and was mauled for doing so. I don't know that much about Dash but there were PLENTY of signs that there was a needed reality check on expectations for DJ. Plus, it just isn't fair to the kids ... instant, massive pressure from unrealistic expectations.
rosco511
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quote:
quote:
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before you start pointing to Dash, I'd like to see him in an Aggie uniform producing all start performances before crowning him the next coming of DeAndre Jordan.
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Amen.

I said the same thing about DJ before the season started and was mauled for doing so. I don't know that much about Dash but there were PLENTY of signs that there was a needed reality check on expectations for DJ. Plus, it just isn't fair to the kids ... instant, massive pressure from unrealistic expectations.


Considering that Sloan was rated higher among his class (and only 6 spots behind Augustin) than Dash, I, too, hope that people understand that Dash likely will not be the instant solution.

[This message has been edited by rosco511 (edited 3/3/2008 6:58p).]
sellthefarm
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the way you beat the zone if you can't hit a shot is to push the ball up the court and turn the game into a shootout. you don't let the zone get established. we seem to be a better team when the scoring gets on up there, so every time we walk the ball up the court I loose my mind. did we walk it up against tu in college station or ttu...heck no. we ran the floor, took quick shots, which allow for offensive boards, and scored a lot of points. this team can score, they just can't do it with their feet glued to the hardwood, which seems to be turgeon's only offensive strategy.
4stringAg
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quote:
If the initial gameplan works, a Turgeon team can blow out teams they are better than.

If the initial gameplan doesn't work, Turgeon is going to get beat by teams that aren't better.



Different sports for sure and I know these comparisons are growing tiresome but this sounds exactly like Fran.
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