We are now well into February and past the mid point in the Big 12. Who would have thought #1 and #5 would be in this position at this point in the season. K-State is a very, very dangerous team in the conference and for the dance, but with their leadership on the bench and the immaturity of their superstars, they may take an early bow out in March. We shall see.


Big 12 Conference
TEAM CONF. W-L OVERALL W-L
Kansas State 7-1 17-5
Kansas 8-2 23-2
Texas 7-2 20-4
Texas A&M 6-3 20-4
Baylor 5-3 17-5

mikesyracuse1

All I know is we now control our own destiny against two of the three teams above us and if we win out, we'll own tie-breaks against them as well. Cool.

How will we ever get a tie-breaker against K-State?

I think that is why Cap said 2 out of 3 teams ahead of us.

If Kansas, KSU, and Texas A&M are all tied at 13-3, A&M would be the #1 seed if Kansas wins the tiebreaker over Kansas State since divisional ties are broken first. Same scenario is Kansas, KSU, Texas, and Texas A&M all end up 13-3, we would be #1 or #2 depending on whether Kansas (we would be #1) or Kansas State (we would be #2) won the North tiebreaker (we would obviously own the tiebreaker against Texas in that scenario. Texas would be locked in at #3 owning tiebreaks over both Kansas and Kansas State.

New Army lives at Reed Arena

[This message has been edited by JJxvi (edited 2/12/2008 9:10a).]

1. I obviously have not mastered this whole "reading" thing. Sorry CapCity.

2. Thanks for the break down. Tie breakers are itneresting, but make my head hurt eventually.

The short answer to your question is we can't get the tiebreaker over Kansas State, but that if KU and KSU tie, then we will first go to a tiebreaker with the winner of THEIR tiebreaker. Which means we may not ever have to break our tie with KSU and could end up above them that way.

New Army lives at Reed Arena

[This message has been edited by JJxvi (edited 2/12/2008 9:14a).]

We just need to take care of business -- the Big 12 is going to come down to Kansas/Texas/A&M -- Kansas State will not be there in the end.

Hate to say it but go Red Raiders this week.

Tech is do for a win.

Official Tiebreakers if you need something to read on the toilet

quote:

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Tiebreakers - The first criteria in the breaking of ties in the standings shall be head-to-head competition of tied teams. The following procedure will be used to establish the championship seeds if ties exist. (For tiebreaking procedures teams will be grouped in two divisions based upon established guidelines. Colorado, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri and Nebraska are in one division and Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas A&M and Texas Tech are in the other division.)



(a) If two teams are tied and they are from different divisions, the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the higher seed.
(b) If two teams are tied and they are from the same division, the team with an advantage in head-to-head competition shall be the higher seed.
(c) If two teams remain tied, there will be a comparison of overall record against division teams only (10 divisional games).
(d) If two teams remain tied, there will be a comparison of record against the highest ranked team(s) (based upon Conference winning percentage) in the division and proceeding through in order of divisional record.
(e) If two teams remain tied, there will be a *comparison of record against the highest ranked team(s) (based upon Conference winning percentage) in the opposite division and proceeding through in order of divisional record.
(f) If two teams remain tied, the higher seed will be chosen by draw.
(g) If three or more teams are tied, ties among divisional opponents will be broken first by using steps (b) through (f) and the head-to-head results will be used to break ties between non-divisional teams. When three or more teams from the same division are tied step (b) will consist of a mini- round robin among the tied teams. At any point during the process of breaking ties among three or more teams that the number of tied teams are reduced to two, head-to-head competition would be used as the primary tie-breaker, followed-by steps (c) through (f).




Note: When comparing against the "highest ranked team(s)" in either division, the comparison will be based upon how tied teams did against all teams in a given placement, rather than a team that wins a tiebreaker at another position. For example, if two teams are tied for fifth and two teams are tied for first, the head-to-head comparison would be how the fifth place teams did against the first place teams combined, and vice-versa.


Draw - In the event tiebreaking procedures are unsuccessful and a draw is necessary in determining seeding, the following procedure will be used:


(a) The drawing will be conducted in public or with media attendance
(b) Institutions involved in the drawing have the right to have a local representative in attendance at the drawing
(c) A single slip of paper with names representing each of the tied institutions will be placed into a container and will be drawn in order of seeding from highest (#1) to lowest (#12)

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Hayden, how do you see K-State finishing that will push them out of the top 3? I'm curious because you're one of the better posters here, but that seems fairly unlikely based on the first half of the conference season.

Kansas State has 5 road games left and 2 of their home games are against Texas and Missouri. They will drop at least 2 of those.

New Army lives at Reed Arena

If K-State loses 2 and we win out, we all end up tied, right? So it seems that they need to drop 3 and probably 4 before they'd really be out of it.

KSU won't in all likelihood lose 3 more. Possible, but not likely. tu beating KU however assured us that we control our own destiny as far as finishing no worse than 2nd, which would probably get us to the Houston Regional.

KSU will probably lose @ KU and one other along the way. If we beat the sips, we'll need to pull for them to beat KSU. KSU's remaining schedule:

@ tech
Missouri
@ NU
@ BU
tu
@ KU
Colorado
@ ISU

quote:

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Hayden, how do you see K-State finishing that will push them out of the top 3? I'm curious because you're one of the better posters here, but that seems fairly unlikely based on the first half of the conference season.

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Kansas State away from home this year:

vs George Mason: Lost by 10
vs Central Florida: Won by 2
vs Rider: Won by 13
vs Notre Dame: Lost by 9
vs Xavier: Lost by 24
vs Oklahoma: Won by 2
vs Colorado: Won by 16
vs Missouri: Lost by 3


So, away from home they've lost to George Mason, Notre Dame, Missouri and Xavier and won very close games against Oklahoma and Central Florida.

Their only "statement" victories away from home came against Rider (#110 Sagarin) and Colorado (#141 Sagarin).


Road games they have left:

@ Texas Tech
@ Nebraska
@ Baylor
@ Kansas
@ Iowa State


They will be fortunate to get 3 wins out of that. They also have a date at home vs the Longhorns.

I think they are a well above average team that will make the tournament -- but they are young and have proven to be very beatable away from home (like most Big 12 teams).

I really do think the A&M/Texas and A&M/Kansas games will decide who wins the conference at this point.

That's my point.

Assuming K-State loses to KU and the sips, that gives K-State 3 L's.

Assuming we beat KU and the sips, but they both win out otherwise, they both have 3 L's.

We already have 3 L's.

EDIT:---Hayden replied whilst I typed.---

So that gives them 4-5 L's, the sips + 2-3 of those road games.

I can see the logic in that. I guess we'll see how much of a maturation process these freshmen have been through since the early season. Time for the new coach to prove his mettle.

That's why I'm curious to see Hayden's breakdown.

[This message has been edited by AggieFromArkansas (edited 2/12/2008 9:35a).]

Basically, I give the Wildcats little chance of finishing better than 12-4 in the conference.

This is way premature, but here are the scenarios.

Texas A&M over Texas
Texas A&M over Kansas
Kansas over Kansas State
Texas over Kansas State
No other upsets.

All 4 teams would finish 13-3.

Texas A&M wins tiebreaker over Texas (head to head). Kansas wins tiebreaker over Kansas State (divisional record). Texas A&M wins tiebreaker over Kansas, Texas wins tiebreaker over Kansas State (head to head).

#1 Texas A&M
#2 Kansas
#3 Texas
#4 Kansas State
___________________________________________

Texas A&M over Texas
Texas A&M over Kansas
Kansas over Kansas State
Kansas State over Texas
Anyone else over Kansas State
No other upsets.

Kansas, Texas A&M, and Kansas State finish 13-3.

Kansas wins tiebreaker over Kansas State (divisional record).

Texas A&M wins tiebreaker over Kansas (head to head)

#1 Texas A&M
#2 Kansas
#3 Kansas State

New Army lives at Reed Arena

All of the above is TOURNAMENT SEEDING. In either case, the Big XII championship would go to all teams who are tied for first place.

New Army lives at Reed Arena

[This message has been edited by JJxvi (edited 2/12/2008 9:47a).]

Basically if we win out, we are almost certain to be the #1 seed in the Big XII, unless Kansas State beats Kansas.

New Army lives at Reed Arena

quote:

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Road games they have left:

@ Texas Tech
@ Nebraska
@ Baylor
@ Kansas
@ Iowa State


They will be fortunate to get 3 wins out of that. They also have a date at home vs the Longhorns.

I think they are a well above average team that will make the tournament -- but they are young and have proven to be very beatable away from home (like most Big 12 teams).

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Ahem.