Any thoughts on his firing? My thoughts are simple, Hegseth is an idiot.
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GEN Donahue
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Last: 25 days ago by 12th Man
He's got 4 stars. His command is now a 3 star command. DoW is actively working to reduce the absurd number of general officers in the force structure.
I know nothing about him personally, other than highlights of a service record that shows, like every other flag officer, he had the right assignments at the right times and performed well enough to advance. The only other thing I know about is the infamous "last man to leave AFG" pic. Which was most likely staged and is completely asinine.
He was asked to retire. He wasn't relieved. There is a difference. Force structure changes. Anyone mad about this is looking for a reason to be mad.
I know nothing about him personally, other than highlights of a service record that shows, like every other flag officer, he had the right assignments at the right times and performed well enough to advance. The only other thing I know about is the infamous "last man to leave AFG" pic. Which was most likely staged and is completely asinine.
He was asked to retire. He wasn't relieved. There is a difference. Force structure changes. Anyone mad about this is looking for a reason to be mad.
maverick2076 said:
He's got 4 stars. His command is now a 3 star command. DoW is actively working to reduce the absurd number of general officers in the force structure.
I know nothing about him personally, other than highlights of a service record that shows, like every other flag officer, he had the right assignments at the right times and performed well enough to advance. The only other thing I know about is the infamous "last man to leave AFG" pic. Which was most likely staged and is completely asinine.
He was asked to retire. He wasn't relieved. There is a difference. Force structure changes. Anyone mad about this is looking for a reason to be mad.
He was told he needed to put in his papers. That doesn't happen unless someone wants you gone.
There are way too many GO's in the military, that's a very true statement. But I would be suspect at the group feeding names to Pete. I don't understand the "...completely asinine." statement though. Sure it was most likely unnecessary but was good for morale at the minimum. Like standing in the back of the chow line.
I don't think a self-promoting picture of being the last person leaving a complete failure of a military withdrawal is good for morale at all. I think it is shameful self-promotion at best, and every senior leader involved in that debacle should've resigned in shame 4 years ago.
100% he should have been the last person on the plane. Remember General Hal Moore? He said his boots would be first on the ground and last to leave, and I believe he stuck to that. Does it really make a difference in the grand scheme of things? Probably not. But soldiers notice, at least the smart ones. It's not his fault someone took a picture of him, or a video still.
Plenty of admirals, generals, colonels, etc., have lost battles, or experienced strategic losses, and rebounded to claim overall victory. You put General Donahue in a no-win situation and then want to blame him for not winning?
Regardless, I don't know anything about him, or how his troops view him. Seems like a solid general. I get that Pete's trying to change a lot of things, but it does concern me how he's going about it. He claims merit will be the only thing that determines promotions, but he's cancelling promotions without clear reason for dozens of officers. And he seems to be pushing out certain career soldiers, sailors, and airmen. Maybe they are bad for his strategic vision. But I would think most would have to have some serious reservations about his vision to push back enough to warrant being forced out.
Plenty of admirals, generals, colonels, etc., have lost battles, or experienced strategic losses, and rebounded to claim overall victory. You put General Donahue in a no-win situation and then want to blame him for not winning?
Regardless, I don't know anything about him, or how his troops view him. Seems like a solid general. I get that Pete's trying to change a lot of things, but it does concern me how he's going about it. He claims merit will be the only thing that determines promotions, but he's cancelling promotions without clear reason for dozens of officers. And he seems to be pushing out certain career soldiers, sailors, and airmen. Maybe they are bad for his strategic vision. But I would think most would have to have some serious reservations about his vision to push back enough to warrant being forced out.
It's not that he was the last one on the plane (which he absolutely should've been)… it's the staged photo op. Hal Moore didn't stop and pose for a picture to be publicized as some great achievement.
what was his role in the withdrawal?maverick2076 said:
I don't think a self-promoting picture of being the last person leaving a complete failure of a military withdrawal is good for morale at all. I think it is shameful self-promotion at best, and every senior leader involved in that debacle should've resigned in shame 4 years ago.
I'm pretty sure Donahue didn't ask for that picture to be taken but his being the last to board the plane endeared him to a lot of his men. Hegseth has no duty to explain himself, he is after all the boss, but one has to think he has tossed out more than a few really good officers for reasons that don't compute. Compare Pete to Driscoll and ask yourself who you'd rather serve under.
OldArmyCT said:
I'm pretty sure Donahue didn't ask for that picture to be taken but his being the last to board the plane endeared him to a lot of his men. Hegseth has no duty to explain himself, he is after all the boss, but one has to think he has tossed out more than a few really good officers for reasons that don't compute. Compare Pete to Driscoll and ask yourself who you'd rather serve under.
I don't see why someone "has to think" that at all. I don't know the reasons why Hegseth has removed each of the officers he has, and I really don't care. It's his prerogative.
As for comparing Hegseth to Driscoll, it's not the comparison I'd choose to make. Instead, I'd compare Hegseth to every SEDEF I served under from 1999 until my retirement last year, and I'd rather be serving under Hegseth than any of his predecessors.
In your time the list of Sec Defs included Gates, Hagel, and Mattis. To put Hegseth at the top is laughable. Leaders often try to cover their incompetence with bluster. I went to a 5th Special Forces Group change of command where GEN Abram's gave command to a leg because he did not like SF. The guy didn't last 2 weeks. Hegseth is directly responsible for a flu outbreak, he mishandled classified information and he tries to pass himself off as warrior, something real warriors, the ones who never tell you who they are, silently snicker at. I vote for our current president twice but he bungled this one.
lol, seriously? Directly responsible for a flu outbreak? You lost whatever shred of credibility you had with that.
The flu shot is about 40% effective in a good year…and this wasn't a good year. My boss, my ED, and I all have had the flu in the last month. We are all vaccinated. We all work in emergency health, and coincidentally all work within 5 miles of JBSA.
Every single SECDEF you listed contributed to a general lowering of standards, bloat in bureaucracy, and failure in leadership from their office down.
Hegseth is FAR from perfect. But if he can actually reduce bureaucracy and bloat, both in the senior ranks and the DoD civilian sectors, and actually prioritize warfighting and lethality in the formations then he will have accomplished far more than any of his predecessors in my lifetime.
The flu shot is about 40% effective in a good year…and this wasn't a good year. My boss, my ED, and I all have had the flu in the last month. We are all vaccinated. We all work in emergency health, and coincidentally all work within 5 miles of JBSA.
Every single SECDEF you listed contributed to a general lowering of standards, bloat in bureaucracy, and failure in leadership from their office down.
Hegseth is FAR from perfect. But if he can actually reduce bureaucracy and bloat, both in the senior ranks and the DoD civilian sectors, and actually prioritize warfighting and lethality in the formations then he will have accomplished far more than any of his predecessors in my lifetime.
Oh well, agree to disagree. Especially on that flu thing.
Gates lowering standards, that's actually kind of funny.
Gates lowering standards, that's actually kind of funny.
I would like to know how many were lost as a result of decisions by Gates and the Obama administration to implement sequestration and rules of engagement? I know of several including my son and as far as I am concerned he and those responsible can kiss my ass.
Donahue 100% asked for that picture to be taken.
I flew him into Kabul and he asked to sit upstairs for the ride in (not uncommon) so he could get a "feel" for the situation and took pictures and videos the whole ride like a tourist not a mil leader. His aide was cool, he was an asshat.
He also wasn't the last person on the ground…there were several other C-17s that left after his chalk in the final ex-fil
I flew him into Kabul and he asked to sit upstairs for the ride in (not uncommon) so he could get a "feel" for the situation and took pictures and videos the whole ride like a tourist not a mil leader. His aide was cool, he was an asshat.
He also wasn't the last person on the ground…there were several other C-17s that left after his chalk in the final ex-fil
Hegseth is way rough around the edges for a SECDEF, and under qualified as a leader to understand how to get the support of a huge bureaucracy behind him.
BUT, from the perspective of this troop, and many like me, he's been systematically targeting the tiny crap that makes military life annoying and trying to allow us to focus on our jobs as war fighters.
The flu shot is just a giant ponzi scheme to lace the pockets of big pharma with guaranteed pay outs each year for a vaccine that is historically not very effective. Military aged females and males can handle getting sick for a couple of days, it was happening anyway even with the flu shot mandate. Also, anyone who wants it can still take it, it's called freedom and after the Covid vac fiasco many of us appreciate having a leader that isn't afraid to delegate this kind of risk assumption to the individual soldier.
He's removed a bunch of CBT requirements and tried to empower units to be mission focused. Some of you would lose your minds if you knew how many days some units were wasting checking boxes on dumbass requirements mandated from above.
I'm also now allowed to take my troops lack of physical conditioning into account on the evaluations again. It's an essential part of soldiering and thank God I can now prevent people who refuse to take care of their body from promoting into leadership roles.
BUT, from the perspective of this troop, and many like me, he's been systematically targeting the tiny crap that makes military life annoying and trying to allow us to focus on our jobs as war fighters.
The flu shot is just a giant ponzi scheme to lace the pockets of big pharma with guaranteed pay outs each year for a vaccine that is historically not very effective. Military aged females and males can handle getting sick for a couple of days, it was happening anyway even with the flu shot mandate. Also, anyone who wants it can still take it, it's called freedom and after the Covid vac fiasco many of us appreciate having a leader that isn't afraid to delegate this kind of risk assumption to the individual soldier.
He's removed a bunch of CBT requirements and tried to empower units to be mission focused. Some of you would lose your minds if you knew how many days some units were wasting checking boxes on dumbass requirements mandated from above.
I'm also now allowed to take my troops lack of physical conditioning into account on the evaluations again. It's an essential part of soldiering and thank God I can now prevent people who refuse to take care of their body from promoting into leadership roles.
AggieEP said:
I'm also now allowed to take my troops lack of physical conditioning into account on the evaluations again. It's an essential part of soldiering and thank God I can now prevent people who refuse to take care of their body from promoting into leadership roles.
When I retired, your official DA photo was no longer a part of the centralized board process. If the photo is still not used, it needs to come back. You can tell a lot about a Soldier by how they look in uniform and how old that photo is.
AggieEP said:
Hegseth is way rough around the edges for a SECDEF, and under qualified as a leader to understand how to get the support of a huge bureaucracy behind him.
BUT, from the perspective of this troop, and many like me, he's been systematically targeting the tiny crap that makes military life annoying and trying to allow us to focus on our jobs as war fighters.
The flu shot is just a giant ponzi scheme to lace the pockets of big pharma with guaranteed pay outs each year for a vaccine that is historically not very effective. Military aged females and males can handle getting sick for a couple of days, it was happening anyway even with the flu shot mandate. Also, anyone who wants it can still take it, it's called freedom and after the Covid vac fiasco many of us appreciate having a leader that isn't afraid to delegate this kind of risk assumption to the individual soldier.
He's removed a bunch of CBT requirements and tried to empower units to be mission focused. Some of you would lose your minds if you knew how many days some units were wasting checking boxes on dumbass requirements mandated from above.
I'm also now allowed to take my troops lack of physical conditioning into account on the evaluations again. It's an essential part of soldiering and thank God I can now prevent people who refuse to take care of their body from promoting into leadership roles.
The last part, you could always do that. It's on your annual evals, it's called physical presences. You might just be lazy as a leader.
Misplaced Aggie said:AggieEP said:
Hegseth is way rough around the edges for a SECDEF, and under qualified as a leader to understand how to get the support of a huge bureaucracy behind him.
BUT, from the perspective of this troop, and many like me, he's been systematically targeting the tiny crap that makes military life annoying and trying to allow us to focus on our jobs as war fighters.
The flu shot is just a giant ponzi scheme to lace the pockets of big pharma with guaranteed pay outs each year for a vaccine that is historically not very effective. Military aged females and males can handle getting sick for a couple of days, it was happening anyway even with the flu shot mandate. Also, anyone who wants it can still take it, it's called freedom and after the Covid vac fiasco many of us appreciate having a leader that isn't afraid to delegate this kind of risk assumption to the individual soldier.
He's removed a bunch of CBT requirements and tried to empower units to be mission focused. Some of you would lose your minds if you knew how many days some units were wasting checking boxes on dumbass requirements mandated from above.
I'm also now allowed to take my troops lack of physical conditioning into account on the evaluations again. It's an essential part of soldiering and thank God I can now prevent people who refuse to take care of their body from promoting into leadership roles.
The last part, you could always do that. It's on your annual evals, it's called physical presences. You might just be lazy as a leader.
Or you just might not have seen the same crap AggieEP has.
I presume you have military service on your CV- did you ever try to shed somebody -particularly a protected minority- because of their abysmal physical readiness? It was once like self-gratification with a cheese grater: possible, but painful at every turn; leaving the officer who tried it bloody and scarred. Furthermore, I know for a FACT that standards were once viewed ax moveable minima based on factors & attributes that are utterly irrelevant to the service's overarching mission. SecWar Hegseth, all his performative mannerisms aside, at least recognized an urgent need to redirect the focus.
12th Man said:Misplaced Aggie said:AggieEP said:
Hegseth is way rough around the edges for a SECDEF, and under qualified as a leader to understand how to get the support of a huge bureaucracy behind him.
BUT, from the perspective of this troop, and many like me, he's been systematically targeting the tiny crap that makes military life annoying and trying to allow us to focus on our jobs as war fighters.
The flu shot is just a giant ponzi scheme to lace the pockets of big pharma with guaranteed pay outs each year for a vaccine that is historically not very effective. Military aged females and males can handle getting sick for a couple of days, it was happening anyway even with the flu shot mandate. Also, anyone who wants it can still take it, it's called freedom and after the Covid vac fiasco many of us appreciate having a leader that isn't afraid to delegate this kind of risk assumption to the individual soldier.
He's removed a bunch of CBT requirements and tried to empower units to be mission focused. Some of you would lose your minds if you knew how many days some units were wasting checking boxes on dumbass requirements mandated from above.
I'm also now allowed to take my troops lack of physical conditioning into account on the evaluations again. It's an essential part of soldiering and thank God I can now prevent people who refuse to take care of their body from promoting into leadership roles.
The last part, you could always do that. It's on your annual evals, it's called physical presences. You might just be lazy as a leader.
Or you just might not have seen the same crap AggieEP has.
I presume you have military service on your CV- did you ever try to shed somebody -particularly a protected minority- because of their abysmal physical readiness? It was once like self-gratification with a cheese grater: possible, but painful at every turn; leaving the officer who tried it bloody and scarred. Furthermore, I know for a FACT that standards were once viewed ax moveable minima based on factors & attributes that are utterly irrelevant to the service's overarching mission. SecWar Hegseth, all his performative mannerisms aside, at least recognized an urgent need to redirect the focus.
It wasn't painful. I counseled them, told them you have X amount of time before you're kicked out. Made a plan and we went from there.
1SG tapped them per regulation and that person was gone in 6 months.
Did the same with another person.
The Commander and I sat down and went over the regs.
It isnt hard the issue is Commanders dont read the reg or enforce them.
If either of the servicemembers you culled was a female or minority, well, then, you have my congratulations.
My direct experience contradicts yours, and separations like you describe are unicorns.
My direct experience contradicts yours, and separations like you describe are unicorns.
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