Fundamental changes to Corps structure.

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CT'97
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AG
I am editing this post to remove what I now believe to be partial and misleading information. Below is the statement from the Commandant explaining the proposed changes that his staff are working.

Quote:

A two part response (because it is long): Part 1
All well, looks like the rumor mill got well ahead of a final decision.
This below is a long post with a lot in it so strap in for a moment: Last week, after a lot of discussion and working groups, I made a call to move out on planning to restructure Cadet 'socialization' and 'leadership education'. Below lays out the logic it is long, but it is because there is a lot to process in the 'why' here.
Since November I've had the staff working through options directly addressing the balance between the communal/fraternal aspects of the Corps experience and the leader training and education program that the Corps (and the Office of the Commandant) mission reflects.
Observations:
- Tradition above leader development. There is a certain truth to a note sent to me by a Cadet earlier this year when we had a discussion about the culture of the Corps. To quote: "Too often we put tradition above leadership development".
- Outfit culture is challenging Corps culture. If you've witnessed the drop in basic Corps standards such as 'whipping out', uniform standards, simple things such as a lack of ability (or enthusiasm) to rally behind a 'Corps Hump it' this is what I'm talking about. Watch underclassmen address upperclassmen on/off the quad: for the most part it is only directed within the outfit we are not meeting expectations this way.
- Corps standards and values don't apply to my unit. I've detected an 'it does not apply to me or my unit' pattern. This is deeply embedded in the previous two points.
- Peer accountability is hard. I remain steadfastly committed to empower student leadership with authority and responsibility, but it also means they are accountable within a set of standards and values. Holding each other accountable is the hardest act of leadership there is growth here, and it continues to grow. Young leaders are grasping (and not grasping) that being 'student led' also means it is within a framework of guidance, standards, values, and accountability.
- We need to expand leadership opportunities. Our breadth of leadership positions within the Corps are lacking. This become very apparent in the limited roles the majority of our White Belts have to expand their leadership experiences. Can we provide 'purpose' here?
- Our leadership development program needs work. We spend a lot of time discussing the 'Be' and 'Do' of leadership, but we are all over the map with 'Know'. A lack of an integrated curriculum map with clear learning objectives the build off each other. ROTC leader development classes and SOMS should be complimentary… but we have drifted in mapping an effective course design. Because we don't have that, SOMS classes have become less effective than they could be. In essence: the lessons of SOMS are 'skipping' off the Corps experience.
- Our retention statistics are telling. From a perspective of statistics I offer the following: We spent an inordinate amount of time working with Cadet Leadership to 'be' the very best example (Know and Do) of a cadre for incoming freshmen for FOW last year. It was the first time in a while that Cadets were in the lead. And they did a OUTSTANDING job leading, coaching, inspiring, teaching being aspirational to every new freshmen. The numbers told the story: we lost just over 1% of freshmen that week. An incredible tribute to leadership in action. But then the rest of the Corps returned the first weekend, and within 3 weeks our attrition bumped to 10%. An incredible statistic that can be interpreted in a myriad of ways. I chose to interpret it this way: our investment in (1) leadership development of 'ALL' cadets is not where it needs to be, and (2) our Freshmen were not given the time/space to be totally prepared for the rigors of cadet life in an academic setting. This is also a realization that students coming to A&M are probably smarter than most of us where when we showed up, but at the same time, they are less mature.
Current Actions that have been in place:
- Connecting 'recruiting to retention' an initiative brought forward by Cadet leadership under the assumption that if you have the right culture, you should be rewarded: outfits can recruit 1.5 times the number of freshmen that remain at the end of the school year. This allows outfits that 'have it right' to flourish, and those that don't, to either recover, or attrit themselves out of existence. Yes, Darwin is at work here, and it should be an incentive that works both ways. If you have a bad year retention-wise you can recover if you've got the right culture.
- Re-mapping 'core curriculum'. We are in the process of looking at every aspect of how we bring the leadership models to each cadet. What should every freshmen know? How does it tie to their next leadership experience? How do we validate 'knowledge' and 'certify' expertise before they lead freshmen? What do rising sophomores, juniors, seniors need to know to be successful? How do we create a curriculum map that builds on itself? I am intimately involved in getting this right. We are starting now with a top-down approach to arm every rising sophomore and rising junior with the 'tools' to be a better leader at echelon. This is manifesting itself in a spring surge in leadership development led personally by the staff on Monday and Friday mornings.
- We are re-writing the 'Standard' and the 'Cadence'. We are writing Commandant's Guidance to the Corps in the form of an 'order' that gives the framework for success… and models the behaviors we seek to impart.
- We are hiring 4 Leader Development Advisors who will be someone cadets want to emulate' to focus on bringing leadership models and reflection to the practical application of every Cadet's leadership journey both on and off the quad.
- We are addressing the maturity of our Cadets by focusing on arming them with the five factors of resilience and how they intersect: physical, mental, sleep, performance nutrition, and spiritual. All in an effort to get left of harmful behaviors by helping each Cadet build resiliency in a way that helps them drive through adversity whether on the battlefield or in life.
Internal Discussions:
So the questions posed by me to the staff at the end of last semester: Why do we do FOW the way we do? Is it ground in history, tradition, or outcomes? Do we continue to do FOW the same way we've always done it? How do we re-imagine leadership development to better prepare rising sophomores and rising juniors for their next (if not first) leadership experience in the Corps, if not life? How do we more rigorously, intentionally, and immersively bring leadership training and education to life? How do we achieve balance between the twin aspects of the Corps experience: leadership development and tradition. How do we make them mutually supportive rather than mutually exclusive? Reinforcing rather than the polarizing.
The working groups looked at multiple ways to addressing the above questions. We looked at models where it is working. We questioned the assumptions behind the way we've always done it. We looked at time requirements. We challenged ourselves to keep in balance the tension between the fraternal aspects of the Corps and the Leader of Character mission we are charged with.

PART 2:
A 'plan to plan' this is what I said to move out on:
Go bold in honoring the past but pushing ourselves into the future to remain relevant. To transform the Corps experience to provide leaders of character to the state and nation at a time we need to most.
First, we are establishing a 'Sophomore Leadership Academy'. This is focused on rising sophomores in the second semester of their fish year, and culminates during the first few weeks of the Sophomore year. This will focus on educating, training, modeling, scenario/case study, demonstrating, and certifying that they (1) understand, and (2) can execute what it means to lead in a demanding and aspirational way. No longer can we tolerate the 'least qualified leading the most vulnerable'.
Second we are extending the orientation period of incoming freshmen to focus on outcomes to be successful: A common understanding of traditions, values, standards; to set conditions for success academically; to incorporate the five factors of resilience into the fabric of the Corps experience; and to drive an articulation of the value proposition of the Corps.
The combining of these two initiatives involves some pretty significant adaptations of the Corps experience up front to ensure we mature the Corps experience in a way that is valuable to all.
The extended Freshmen orientation will last about 5-6 weeks (around Fall Break), culminating in the pinning of Corps Brass. It will be led under a cadre of about 200 Seniors and Juniors who will be exclusively responsible to the training and education of the outcomes listed above. The Freshmen will be consolidated under Major unit 'pods'. Simultaneous to this the Sophomores will be completing their 'certifications' under the Sophomore Leadership Academy. As they graduate, they will be incorporated into the cadre.
After the Freshmen class has successfully been pinned, there is a transition from Cadre to outfit leadership this transition more closely matches the mental model we all have of our experience. The next 7-8 weeks is outfit integration that rides on (1) the commons set of standards, values, and traditions that all Cadets learn, and (2) under the leadership of outfits (Sophomores who have graduated from the Sophomore Leadership Academy), Juniors, and Senior into the unique aspects and culture of their outfit. This will culminate in an outfit form of 'culmination' that each outfit will have to lay out.
As the Corps completes the first semester, the second semester becomes a selection and a preparation phase for the next leadership position in the Corps.
So what are the friction points? What are the risks?
1. The one logistical challenge we are seeking to solve is the transition from 'orientation unit' consolidation, to outfit footprints. This is a math and a physics problem. Right now the challenge is whether it is feasible to reshuffle the entire quad during the semester (right around Fall break) or do we wait till the transition between fall and spring semesters. This is a big driver of 'feasibility'. There are others: march ins, PT, formations, etc… a lot to think through here.
2. It does not look like the way we've always done it. Completely true. Unless you go back to the 50's where all fish resided at RELLIS (FDT came out of this). I would ask that we all take a step back from our own version of the Corps and allow this to improve our beloved institution.
3. What about outfit integrity? I can see how this can be interpreted if we allow ourselves to be prisoners of our experience. I'd challenge all of us to be 'informed' by our experience and see the future benefit of transforming the Corps experience in a way that results in leaders better prepared for the challenges of tomorrow while building a community that will last a lifetime.
4. What about outfits that have it right? Now they get to get it 'righter'. There are layers upon layers of how to address this. We all have a sense of pride here, I am the same with E-1. But we have to confront the brutal facts that we are losing the identity of the Corps at the expense of outfit identity. That our leadership training and education program needs to be improved. Our current leadership model is bouncing off the fraternal aspects of every outfit. Spend a day with 'your unit' and watch how they interact with other units. You'd be surprised. We are actually addressing a larger concern of Corps identity in relation to the university, the state, and the nation.
5. Impact on recruiting? Outfits still recruit for their outfit. The 'Corps Orientation' Phase is about providing a corps wide calibration of standards, values, and tradition. There is still a hugely important quality of outfit identity in the recruiting process.
6. General.. this is all about quantity! I get this a lot. Here's how I'd address it: (1.) "Old" Army and 'Their' Army are vastly different, but equally as challenging. I watch these young men and women wrestle hard everyday and the stressors of yesterday pale in comparison to the stressors of today. (2.) Quantity or Quality: I want both. And I think we can do it. There will always, always be some form of attrition. And I'm calibrating what I think is acceptable.
If you've read this far it is because our version of the Corps experience so incredibly defined our identities, our friends, and our lives. But we have to move forward in a way that balances the important and relevant aspects of the Corps experience we experienced to where it needs to go next. We cannot remain relevant if we put tradition above leadership development. We need balance here.
I look forward to your thoughts as I lay out this plan to keep planning to a group dedicated to 'you know you were in the corps at A&M when…'
Thank you. Commandant.

(below was my initial response to the partial information I initially received.)

What's the first question you ask when you meet someone in the Corps or who was in the Corps?

What outfit were you in? Is my answer.

When I get together with my buddies or other classmates from that time period we tell stories about our fish years. We joke about things their outfit made them do or our upper classmen made us do. That culture was built your fish year. Earning my outfit Tshirt and later Corps brass were significant parts of my fish year. Those were shaped by our outfit culture and something I was proud of.

This seems to undercut all of that.

If you have ever been around someone from the academies, they never talk about what outfit they were in. The outfits, leadership, and culture are almost nonexistent at the academies.

I'm afraid this is a step in that direction and away from 147 years of tradition.
Strong Men Armed
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Regarding the service academies, this is not true. At USNA, plebes (what they call fish) are assigned to a company their first year, and then assigned to a different company at the beginning of their second year, usually staying in that company until they graduate.

There is lifelong association with your classmates with whom you began your USNA journey… same as fish buddies at Texas A&M. This is reinforced by the fact that every graduate is commissioned in either the Navy or Marine Corps upon graduation and serves 5 years active duty. And… no one "frogs in" to the Brigade of Midshipmen.
Neither experience is better than the other. Going in, you know the expectations. Both institutions produce outstanding officers.
Full disclosure: I did 3 semesters at USNA, then graduated and commissioned into the USMC via NROTC. Later, did a tour at the Trigon as an instructor/outfit advisor. So I have some first hand knowledge of both schools.
CT'97
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AG
I have never heard an academy grad reference their company when greeting another grad. Class year, sports teams, various other organizations on campus, yes, but company never. Granted I was around West Point grads mostly so maybe Annapolis is different.

Your comment about shuffling them from freshman to sophomore year actually speaks to my point. I think that would lead to a lack of cohesion not strengthening it.
oldag941
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AG
From my experience and those I speak with (early '90's through late '90's), the most impactful and valuable relationships, crucibles and memories originate from your fish year experience. From FOW through corps brass to final review. All critical waypoints that resulted in growth, most of which gained through the relationships within your fish class. Those qualities dilute more with each successive year. As freedoms increase, pissheads, butts and zips spend more time on staff, special units, work part-time on campus, spend time girlfriends etc. All of that happens after your fish year. I went hunting with 8 of my fish buddies 2 weeks ago. 33 years after we met each other at FOW. An annual trip, cemented by handshakes made in August 1990.
aggiez03
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Thanks CT97 for posting here.

I have a long thread on this in F16.

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3445138

Please check there for more information....


If anyone would like to help quell this...


If you would like to voice your opinion,

Start by calling the Corps of Cadets association (979-221-1998 )

AND

emailing:

bruce@corpsofcadets.org
Bruce Hamilton is CEO.

They will tell you they won't get involved, but they need to hear from members anyway.


When I get a University contact, I will update this thread too.

CT'97
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Let me guess the F16 folks have labeled the Commandant Woke, the Trigon a bunch of Libtards or demorats, and declared they will never send another dime to Texas A&M.
There hasn't been a legitimate discussion on that forum for years, I have no interest in going back.
The Kraken
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Strong Men Armed said:

Regarding the service academies, this is not true. At USNA, plebes (what they call fish) are assigned to a company their first year, and then assigned to a different company at the beginning of their second year, usually staying in that company until they graduate.

There is lifelong association with your classmates with whom you began your USNA journey… same as fish buddies at Texas A&M. This is reinforced by the fact that every graduate is commissioned in either the Navy or Marine Corps upon graduation and serves 5 years active duty. And… no one "frogs in" to the Brigade of Midshipmen.
Neither experience is better than the other. Going in, you know the expectations. Both institutions produce outstanding officers.
Full disclosure: I did 3 semesters at USNA, then graduated and commissioned into the USMC via NROTC. Later, did a tour at the Trigon as an instructor/outfit advisor. So I have some first hand knowledge of both schools.
Don't the academies have an advantage in that the freshmen have a much longer orientation in the summer before the majority of upperclassmen report in? Something like 6 weeks long compared the one week fish at A&M have?
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
JABQ04
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Not a fan of this proposed change but will hold my indignation until this **** is proven true by the commandant. The original post just seems fishy to me., mainly because this seems like an instagram post/message. Then again I don't know what the hell kids are doing these days.
oldag941
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Go to the F16 link and someone posted the Commandant's response.
Jock 07
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CT'97 said:

I have never heard an academy grad reference their company when greeting another grad. Class year, sports teams, various other organizations on campus, yes, but company never. Granted I was around West Point grads mostly so maybe Annapolis is different.

Your comment about shuffling them from freshman to sophomore year actually speaks to my point. I think that would lead to a lack of cohesion not strengthening it.

This has been my experience with my zoomie contemporaries as well.
ord04
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New commandant, new good idea fairy.

Former students need to get involved and stop this from eviscerating the Corps more than it already is.

This spells the end of the Corps culture, and frankly the end of former student support. Now and in the future.
JABQ04
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Just finished reading it. Yikes.
aggiez03
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CT'97 said:

Let me guess the F16 folks have labeled the Commandant Woke, the Trigon a bunch of Libtards or demorats, and declared they will never send another dime to Texas A&M.
There hasn't been a legitimate discussion on that forum for years, I have no interest in going back.
Nope. You are completely wrong and uninformed. It is about eyeballs. 8,000 12,000 views on that thread, 400 on here.

Politics has nothing to do with it other than the fact he is forcing equity in the outfits.

Trying to do a PSA and figured there might be some former CTs on the military forum.

Didn't mean to trigger you. Hope you have your emotional support animal and safe space to recover in.

Anyone else is interested, I posted the link. Won't waste my time on here anymore.

- - - - - -
Now up to 12K views on F16, but I am sure it is same 3 guys refreshing to get the count up.
CT'97
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Doth protest to much...

20 people constantly refreshing to see who responded to their comment will make a lot of views but it's still 20 people talking in a silo.
oldag941
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For me, I've discussed with 8 of my corps buddies plus 3 other corps alumni in the hood. I guess the "science" of attributing views to relevance is foggy.
Strong Men Armed
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You're correct. Plebe summer lasts 8-9 weeks. It is the orientation for new midshipmen.
A few other things which make a comparison of plebe life to fish life difficult to equate:
- Fish earn their Corps brass during their spring semester, and life gets somewhat easier. No such deal at Annapolis… the crap doesn't end until the last week of the academic year, when the plebe class places a "Dixie cup" sailor hat atop a tall, greased obelisk monument.
- At A&M, the pissheads are often the main tormentors of the fish. At USNA, it is the junior class (2nd class mids) who deal out the worst torment. And because these 2nd class mids will fleet up to lead the company in the next year, there would be too much bad blood between them and the plebes who would in turn be the sophomore class. So, the plebes are sent to another company to begin their 3rd class year.
Again… USNA and Texas A&M are not comparable cultures.
Jock 07
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Uh, Ddon't know how it's done now but early to mid 00s the unified and standardized Corps brass was done in the fall semester and Jock brass (which made Corps brass seem like a walk in the park) was spring semester.
Strong Men Armed
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I could be wrong on that Corps brass comment, and I accept the correction.
burgermeister
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Does anyone know how the other senior military colleges (e.g. The Citadel, VMI) handle this? Not that it should influence A&M, but as another data point for reference?
Jock 07
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burgermeister said:

Does anyone know how the other senior military colleges (e.g. The Citadel, VMI) handle this? Not that it should influence A&M, but as another data point for reference?


Interestingly enough, just got on a similar discussion with one of my VMI buddies who I've known since my first assignment in the military over 15 years ago. Apparently their freshmen are assigned outfits based on their height.
JABQ04
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I vaguely remember this. Your fish year (my zip year) was the first year of this. As a Q I seem to remember telling our fish to never wear that **** again after "they earned their Corps Brass"
Noblemen06
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JABQ04 said:

I vaguely remember this. Your fish year (my zip year) was the first year of this. As a Q I seem to remember telling our fish to never wear that **** again after "they earned their Corps Brass"
True story!
The Kraken
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JABQ04 said:

I vaguely remember this. Your fish year (my zip year) was the first year of this. As a Q I seem to remember telling our fish to never wear that **** again after "they earned their Corps Brass"


Wait, BQs got Corps Brass? As a BQ, I find this weird. Then again, i think it's weird that they wear crossed rifles and cannons below the band lyre now. That used to be a pullout people would occasionally do on game days.
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Strong Men Armed
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What would you say to separating the Corps of Cadets from the military service ROTC units? Keep the Corps as a fraternal student organization. For those students who want to pursue a commission, they take the ROTC classes, wear their ROTC uniforms on Thursdays (like other schools do), but other than military obligations, participate in the Corps of Cadets.
The Commandant's staff oversees the Corps without assistance from the ROTC units. The ROTC staffs concentrate on preparing candidates for commissioning in their respective service. It could work.
JABQ04
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The Kraken said:

JABQ04 said:

I vaguely remember this. Your fish year (my zip year) was the first year of this. As a Q I seem to remember telling our fish to never wear that **** again after "they earned their Corps Brass"


Wait, BQs got Corps Brass? As a BQ, I find this weird. Then again, i think it's weird that they wear crossed rifles and cannons below the band lyre now. That used to be a pullout people would occasionally do on game days.


Yeah. There was a Corps Brass weekend or something. A lot of PT. Some team building stuff. It was the only free weekend fall semester and had to spend it doing this BS. I think it continued for awhile, and maybe still does? All fish got the Corps Brass at the end. Never allowed them to wear it after the initial pin on ceremony.

Yeah I don't get the crossed cannons/rifles on everybody. Liked it better as a pull out for BQ Ball or similar.
JABQ04
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I thought the program worked fine. I did Corps stuff with my outfit and then when I had ROTC obligations I did that instead. Wasn't a hassle to get permission to do Contact PT or FTXs when it was time. Of course we're looking at 20 plus years later so who knows.
Strong Men Armed
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It has worked fine, but I'm reading from others objections to the Trigon's influence on Corps leadership selections, I.e. putting the thumb on the command selection scales.

The military services recruit very easily from the Cadet population, but to be clear, they could recruit very well without affiliation with the Corps. Nationwide, it isn't officer recruitment that is suffering… it's the enlisted recruitment that is suffering (except the USMC). The Commandant's staff needs the ROTC support for two big reasons: the military helps subsidize the costs of uniforms, and the ROTC programs provide their staff to serve as outfit advisors, who would otherwise have to be staffed by the Commandants Office, and that means hiring full time folks.

I really enjoyed my collateral duty as an outfit advisor. Each outfit CO was a different personality. Two of them were D&C cadets. Before I walked over to the Quad, I called over and let them know I was coming. They knew I wasn't sneaking up on them, and that built trust. My boss was supportive of this approach… he knew that cadet leaders will make mistakes and learn from them, and that "helicopter parenting" did not allow for that. This was almost 40 years ago, so I have no knowledge of how things are today.
Aggie Therapist
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I love the F16 psycho responses so far.

"Worst thing about it is the commandant is a former CT, but is career military, so this is what you get..."

Yeah, that's usually how it works dumbass…..
freedomfighter11
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Nobody is interested in replicating a service academy with this dumb ass initiative.
Aggie Therapist
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AG
I'd like to keep our designation as a Senior Military College and not remain in the past because a bunch of old D&C cadets are mad
freedomfighter11
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Fundamentally breaking the essence of that tradition is exactly why you will lose that designation. "Old" D&C cadets appear to be joined by 84+% of current D&C and Contract cadets in their opposition to this secretly hatched plan.
Aggie Therapist
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This problem is so "A&M".

No other officers I serve with care about this stuff. Some people never left the Corps when they graduated.

People have been saying Old Army is dead for years and decades now.
Warrior 66
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Given what I've read on this and other sites about this decision, I seriously doubt that Jame Rudder's groundbreaking and transformational changes - all changes we celebrate today - would have gotten much traction in today's "everybody gets a vote" environment.

Every decision that has ever been made that changed "the way we've always done it" in the Corps has always been the decision that's going to "kill the Corps." Yet, the Corps has survived all those changes, continues to survive today, and will survive this change as well.

How about we give this change a chance, and see how it works out before we start ringing the death knell of the Corps? This may turn out to be the transformational change that the Corps needs at this point and time in our history. These kinds of changes are not malicious in nature nor are they designed to be the death of the Corps. Believe it or not, the Commandant and his staff love the Corps as much as you do, if not more, and want to see it succeed.

There have been monumental changes made in business, in government, in education, in our military, and at Texas A&M over the years - all for good reason. This change for the Corps is difficult and in some perspectives, somewhat radical. But it has merit (the military has been doing this for decades) and we should be willing to give it a chance and see if it will work in the end - just like Rudder's (radical) sweeping changes did. I do not believe it will kill the fish experience, nor do I believe it will kill outfit culture. Both will survive and thrive, just as they have over the many changes made to the Corps over the last 147 years.

You can certainly disagree (and I'm sure many will), but thats my take on all of this.

"Per Unitatem Vis!"

oldag941
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AG
You lost me at a Latin salutation.
inconvenient truth
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Warrior 66 said:

Given what I've read on this and other sites about this decision, I seriously doubt that Jame Rudder's groundbreaking and transformational changes - all changes we celebrate today - would have gotten much traction in today's "everybody gets a vote" environment.

Every decision that has ever been made that changed "the way we've always done it" in the Corps has always been the decision that's going to "kill the Corps." Yet, the Corps has survived all those changes, continues to survive today, and will survive this change as well.

How about we give this change a chance, and see how it works out before we start ringing the death knell of the Corps? This may turn out to be the transformational change that the Corps needs at this point and time in our history. These kinds of changes are not malicious in nature nor are they designed to be the death of the Corps. Believe it or not, the Commandant and his staff love the Corps as much as you do, if not more, and want to see it succeed.

There have been monumental changes made in business, in government, in education, in our military, and at Texas A&M over the years - all for good reason. This change for the Corps is difficult and in some perspectives, somewhat radical. But it has merit (the military has been doing this for decades) and we should be willing to give it a chance and see if it will work in the end - just like Rudder's (radical) sweeping changes did. I do not believe it will kill the fish experience, nor do I believe it will kill outfit culture. Both will survive and thrive, just as they have over the many changes made to the Corps over the last 147 years.

You can certainly disagree (and I'm sure many will), but thats my take on all of this.

"Per Unitatem Vis!"



Found the commandant's sock
 
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