To contract with the Army or not.

4,159 Views | 18 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Aggie118
Aggie118
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AG
Please forgive me for my lack of brevity, but I have a lot of questions. Some of you may recall that I posted on here several months back about being on the fence about an Air force contract opportunity, well that did not pan out. The reason I've come to this board is this, basically I have the opportunity to contract going into my Junior year of the Corps with the Army (I'm currently rising leadership in an Air force outfit). This would entail me going to "basic camp" in Fort Knox for 31 days this summer to catch up on all of the Army ROTC I've missed, so I can return to A&M in the fall as an MS3 (3rd year army cadet). From there I would do regular Army ROTC and then return to Fort Knox the following summer for advanced training for 31 days. After this I would finish senior year graduate and commission. I must make this decision to go to basic camp this Friday 4-20-18 so this is basically my last realistic opportunity as I see it.

Some of my concerns are:

I've heard from people and from many (probably) ill advised google searches that many people do not enjoy their Army experience (I want to serve my country first and foremost, but I also don't want to be miserable for 8 years). I've also heard that "the air force takes way better care of their people", coming from an Air Force outfit I've heard this a lot, and have been discouraged this week from going toward the Army officer route by Air Force friends.

I figure if there's anyone I should trust it is fellow Aggies and former Cadets that went through the same process and tough decision making and are now (or have been) U.S. Army officers themselves.

A few questions:

What has your personal experience been going from A&M (or elsewhere) to the Army as an officer? Would you do it again?

I am also torn between doing Active duty, Army reserves, or National guard. Any insight on that decision is also welcomed. How long is each commitment upon commissioning?

Also if anyone has any insight on the two summer trainings and how those compare to the rigors of the Corps daily regiment, that would be great.

Are you able to have a good family life balance?

Finally, do you feel like being an Army officer could afford a solid foundation to go into the business world later on?

I apologize for all the questions,Thanks in advance!




HollywoodBQ
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Aggie118 said:

This would entail me going to "basic camp" in Fort Knox for 31 days this summer to catch up on all of the Army ROTC I've missed, so I can return to A&M in the fall as an MS3 (3rd year army cadet). From there I would do regular Army ROTC and then return to Fort Knox the following summer for advanced training for 31 days. After this I would finish senior year graduate and commission. I must make this decision to go to basic camp this Friday 4-20-18 so this is basically my last realistic opportunity as I see it.
You know there's a 420 joke baked in to this scenario
Quote:

Some of my concerns are:

I've heard from people and from many (probably) ill advised google searches that many people do not enjoy their Army experience (I want to serve my country first and foremost, but I also don't want to be miserable for 8 years). I've also heard that "the air force takes way better care of their people", coming from an Air Force outfit I've heard this a lot, and have been discouraged this week from going toward the Army officer route.
Yeah, there's a reason they call it "The Chair Force". A funny story, one of my National Guard Soldiers in San Angelo had been part of an Air Force "Red Horse Squadron" when he was on Active Duty. He could never quite come to grips with the crappy living conditions we endured in a Tank unit in the Army National Guard.
Quote:

I know it may be silly to go to a public board for advice such as this, but I figure if there's anyone I should trust it is fellow Aggies and former Cadets that went through the same process and tough decision making and are now (or have been) U.S. Army officers themselves.
I'm going to be straight up with you - Texas A&M was a safety school for me. I was dead set on going to the USAFA. I wanted to be an Air Force Officer but... they offered me the Academy Prep School (which I didn't really know much about so I viewed it as a waste of time) but I had an Army ROTC Scholarship waiting at Texas A&M so... that all worked out. And in fact, it couldn't have worked out any better in my opinion.
Quote:

A few questions:

What has your personal experience been going from A&M (or elsewhere) to the Army as an officer? Would you do it again?
Yes, Yes, Yes. 1000x Yes.
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I am also torn between doing Active duty, Army reserves, or National guard. Any insight on that decision is also welcomed. How long is each commitment upon commissioning?
I can't speak to the time commitments these days but historically it has been some mix of 8 years total. In my case, it was 6 Years of being in a National Guard Unit plus 2 years in the Individual Ready Reserve.

As far as being in the National Guard, depending how you contract, you might have some say in what your Branch accession winds up being. That's going to depend if you join a unit before Commissioning, etc.

Keep in mind a couple things. The Guard is a State level organisation. It might have combat roles. The Army Reserve is a Federal organisation so its missions are primarily support.

You can make a career out of any of these but they will all have their various plusses and minuses.

In my case, since I earned an Engineering degree from A&M, being in the National Guard allowed me to pursue a great Civilian career in Austin. However, as an Armor Officer, when I moved from Austin to Denver, the Colorado Army National Guard didn't really have a place for me.

They always need more Bubbas in the Guard but, they rarely need more Officers.

And for the record, I wanted Active Duty but got accessed Reserve Component and that turned out to be great. Even though I was devastated at first.
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Are you able to have a good family life balance?
They say - if the Army wanted you to have a family, they would have issued you one. . Seriously though, at some point you'll need to chose. I chose after six years. My pisshead ol' lady chose after 23 years.
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Finally, do you feel like being an Army officer could afford a solid foundation to go into the business world later on?
No need to apologise. That's why we're here. Yes, your Military service will give you a leg up on "Can Do" in the Civilian world. You'll also learn a lot about working with people. People who you didn't select to work with. People who were forced on you.

You'll have wankers who tell you how much they respect you for your military service on one hand and then chastise you on the other hand. People will never appreciate or understand what you're capable of achieving. My point here is, don't expect to walk in and say that you were in charge of 14 M1A1 Abrams Tanks and 64 men and have them even be able to comprehend what that means.

During a job interview last year, I got more traction with the fact that I was a Battalion Scout Platoon Leader in charge of 10 Humvees than the fact that I led 30 Cavalry Scouts. For some reason, the civilian manager could at least comprehend the Hummers but the concept of having subordinate leaders, multiple types of weapons, etc. was just too much to fathom.

I say go for it. It's a long hard road but, you'll learn a lot and it will be something you can be proud of and leverage for the rest of your life.
Complaint Investigator
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AG
If you think your job experiences outside of the Army are going to be rainbows and sunshine all the time, you are sadly mistaken. The Army is a love/hate relationship. This explains the Army perfectly.



:

What has your personal experience been going from A&M (or elsewhere) to the Army as an officer? Would you do it again?

I would have done it before college (warrant officer aviation route) then gone to college.

I am also torn between doing Active duty, Army reserves, or National guard. Any insight on that decision is also welcomed. How long is each commitment upon commissioning?

I'm Guard. Unless you are aviation or SF, you'll hate it. You sit around all weekend trying to figure out what you are supposed to be doing. Admin tasks are pretty much all that occurs and people hate being there. Infantry guys are always in the field, and hate being there. Aviation and SF are the only two who really seem to train on drill weekends (and more than drill weekends,) and even then sometimes it's just admin drills.

Also if anyone has any insight on the two summer trainings and how those compare to the rigors of the Corps daily regiment, that would be great.

Nothing the general population of the Army goes to school for is hard. S.E.R.E. C wasn't hard, it just sucked. But what makes the Army the Army is that everyone is in the suck together.

Are you able to have a good family life balance?

I cannot speak for general active duty, but during my time in flight school there was plenty. My other buddies who are active seem to have a decent balance.

Finally, do you feel like being an Army officer could afford a solid foundation to go into the business world later on?

Do something with computers or go Finance and get the comptroller certifications they offer. Combat Arms, as much as those guys are awesome, have a harder time trying to get a job versus a guy who has systems/computers/etc. background from the Army.
PanzerAggie06
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AG
When I went thru OCS after I graduated from A&M there was a CPT that was one of our instructors and to say he was a complete waste of genetic material would be a compliment...this guy in no way, shape, or form should have been an Officer in the US Army.

However, in a moment of absolute clarity he said something that has stuck with me since my OCS days in 2007. He was talking to my OCS company and stated that 3/4 of us would probably be out of the Army within 5 years (not sure if this is accurate but it seems to have come to fruition at least anecdotally ) and that he believed it was because many of us were looking at being Officers as a career/job. His exact quote was, "This is not a job or career. This is a lifestyle. And most of you will grow tired of the lifestyle very quickly".

I really didn't understand what he meant until I had finished OCS and OBC and was finally in my first line unit. The nature of the Army, and the military in general, requires it to be quite involved in your life. While not totally controlling everything you do the Army will have its fingers on the pulse of many aspects of your life that in the civilian world would be totally private....finances, housing, medical issues, family issues, social interactions etc. Some people deal with this quite well while others don't appreciate the interference. You will be an Officer 24/7 which means there will be phone calls at 2AM on Saturday morning from your PSG telling you that PVT Smith was arrested for public intoxication. Or in one very special incident an irate 19 wife calling you on a Friday night to tell you how mean you are to her husband and that you need to stop or she is going to call the commanding general of 3ID. That one was actually pretty funny.

When I got out of the Army in 16, after 8 years, and was interviewing for jobs I noticed exactly what HollywoodBQ mentioned above, Many people had a hard time understanding what it was that I did and the responsibilities that I had. When you first have to explain to a hiring manager what an Abrams tank is its probably going to be a difficult proposition to get that person to understand the nuances of being a Platoon Leader in Iraq. While I absolutely believe that being an Officer greatly prepares you for life in the corporate world I'd be lying if I said that explaining why that is to the people doing the hiring is easy. It often is not.

Would I do it again? In a heart beat. Of course the next time I'd avoid working for COL Thorne again. He was a ***** of the highest order...but thats a story for another day.

Do it.
JimDandy
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Active Army Officer here. Would do it again...twice.

Am a professor of military science at a state school in the Big 12. My program often gets transfers from the Air Force ROTC program at my school. Per Cadet Command Regulation 145-3, you will get credit for your first two years of Army ROTC for having completed the first two years of Air Force ROTC (see table 3-1)...this means you do not have to attend Basic Camp.

DM me if you have further questions. I can help you wade through the waters.
Aggie118
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Howdy Sir! I appreciate your kind offer, as well as everyone's great insight on here so far I must go to basic camp becuase I took all but my 4th semester of Air Force classes unfortunately.
Trinity Ag
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Aggie118 said:

Howdy Sir! I appreciate your kind offer, as well as everyone's great insight on here so far I must go to basic camp becuase I took all but my 4th semester of Air Force classes unfortunately.

Going to Basic Camp isn't just about meeting the Cadet Command requirement -- Air Force and Army commissioning processes are very different, and it is very difficult to make up the gaps in technical knowledge and foundational skills without additional training in things like land navigation, marksmanship, and basic troop leading. Coming in as a MSIII, it is often a challenge for Cadets to catch up with their peers. Basic Camp will give you a leg up on Advance Camp the next year because -- at a minimum -- you will be familiar with the process and the ground.

I would encourage you to talk with a number of different people about their experiences, including the uniformed Army Cadre.

I would be cautious about what Air Force Cadets offer you about Army ROTC or life in the Army, as they are looking from the outside in. It is absolutely a larger time commitment.

Since A&M is a Senior Military College, realize that you have significant control over whether you commission into the active duty or reserve forces. You can choose which component you want, subject to the recommendation of the PMS.

One thing I would suggest is that no one goes to their death bed regretting that they served their country.

And it is service, with all that implies. I've served 27 years, been married to the same women for 26 of them, and raised two wonderful kids in the Army. It can be a wonderful life. But it isn't for everyone.
Dawg6
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AG
I served in the Army 11 years active duty (albeit a long time ago...) in Armor. I would highly recommend going contract in the Army because it allows you to serve this great nation, work w/ some extraordinarily talented people, and broaden your horizons by allowing you time to mature. If you elect to separate after your initial commitment, you will be more than prepared for the business world by bringing leadership skills, maturity, and a broader sense of perspective than most others have.
As a former BQ, I have many good friends from that time but I also have many good friends from my time the in Army. It was a special time for me and I think you will be equally rewarded.
The branch you choose to serve will dictate to some degree the quality of life. Non-combat arms I suspect are more "business" focused but lack the esprit found in the combat arms. It can be tough but I always found it challenging and rewarding, especially compared to a civilian job.
If you want a challenge, if you want to serve this country, and you are motivated to improve yourself, I would highly recommend it!
clarythedrill
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Whether or not you get Basic camp credit for your Air Force time is irrelevant, you need to go anyway so you learn how the Army leads and plans, which is in a whole other universe compared to how the Air Force does it.

You will not have enough time to get up to speed with the Army way before you go to Advance camp, and your performance will show it. This could all lead to you not getting the branch you want.....which you may not get regardless of how well you do at Advance camp. If you are afraid of a little 31 day field problem, then we do not want you, to be quite honest.

I get the privilege of running Basic Camp tactics, and it will challenge you, but is not insurmountable by any means.
Fly Army 97
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Everyone has their own experience. If you are on the fence, I'd recommend trying it out. Worse case, you get out in 3-4 years still in your twenties with a hell of a lot of great stories and friends to talking about - a resume that will get you into grad school - and knowing you served your country.

Don't compare it to the Air Force. They have a different mission and a different life style. Good leaders take care of Soldiers. That doesn't mean you won't be living in the dirt, sleeping in/on/next to your tank, helicopter, weapon.

Summer life at Knox will be cake compared to your experience in the Corps...that said, if you go, attend with an open mind. You still have a lot to learn about leadership from the cadre. You can make up for the rest of it your last year by paying attention and participating as much as you can in training.

Good luck either way. A lot of experience is here on this board, and everyone for the most part will help you succeed if you have questions. If you end up active duty, hope to serve with you in three four years.
HollywoodBQ
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AG
A quick funny that happened today at work. I started a new job recently and today was my first long sit down with my new Sales Rep. I talked about how I had served in Tanks in the Army. He had seen the Brad Pitt movie "Fury" so he wanted to know if I rode inside the tank or if I was outside the tank - like the guy on the .50 Cal.

I explained to him that there were four positions inside the tank - Driver, Gunner, Loader, Tank Commander. I talked about crew survivability on the Abrams, etc. I also mentioned that as a Tank Platoon Leader, I was in charge of 4 tanks. His takeaway... OK, so you had the same position as Brad Pitt, right?

Yeah. Close enough.
JABQ04
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HollywoodBQ said:

A quick funny that happened today at work. I started a new job recently and today was my first long sit down with my new Sales Rep. I talked about how I had served in Tanks in the Army. He had seen the Brad Pitt movie "Fury" so he wanted to know if I rode inside the tank or if I was outside the tank - like the guy on the .50 Cal.

I explained to him that there were four positions inside the tank - Driver, Gunner, Loader, Tank Commander. I talked about crew survivability on the Abrams, etc. I also mentioned that as a Tank Platoon Leader, I was in charge of 4 tanks. His takeaway... OK, so you had the same position as Brad Pitt, right?

Yeah. Close enough.


Tell him it was just like this:


I gave up explains what I did as a howitzer section chief. Instead I just say I was a babysitter, parent, financial advisor, relationship expert, voice of reason, voice of sanity and a kick in the ass, just depending on what the situation called for.
74OA
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"(I want to serve my country first and foremost, but I also don't want to be miserable for 8 years.)" Some notes:

1. Eight years for ROTC contract these days, not 4?! Wow.
2. No one knows you better than you, so go with your gut in picking a Service and if you find yourself with real concerns about your second or third options, don't let people push you where you don't really want to go. Different strokes for different folks.
3. After all, there's plenty of other ways to serve the country and your community.
Trinity Ag
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74OA said:

"(I want to serve my country first and foremost, but I also don't want to be miserable for 8 years.)" Some notes:

1. Eight years for ROTC contract these days, not 4?! Wow.
2. No one knows you better than you, so go with your gut in picking a Service and if you find yourself with real concerns about your second or third options, don't let people push you where you don't really want to go. Different strokes for different folks.
3. After all, there's plenty of other ways to serve the country and your community.

Eight years total commitment -- but only 4 active duty if you choose that route. The other four -- or the entire eight -- for can be National Guard, USAR, or Ready Reserve.

However, many Cadets volunteer for an additional 4 year Active Duty Service Obligation to get their branch of choice. But that is optional.
74OA
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Trinity Ag said:

74OA said:

IC"(I want to serve my country first and foremost, but I also don't want to be miserable for 8 years.)" Some notes:

1. Eight years for ROTC contract these days, not 4?! Wow.
2. No one knows you better than you, so go with your gut in picking a Service and if you find yourself with real concerns about your second or third options, don't let people push you where you don't really want to go. Different strokes for different folks.
3. After all, there's plenty of other ways to serve the country and your community.

Eight years total commitment -- but only 4 active duty if you choose that route. The other four -- or the entire eight -- for can be National Guard, USAR, or Ready Reserve.

However, many Cadets volunteer for an additional 4 year Active Duty Service Obligation to get their branch of choice. But that is optional.
I believe that's for scholarship cadets. Everything I'm seeing says non-scholarship cadets incur a four-year service commitment.
HollywoodBQ
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74OA said:

I believe that's for scholarship cadets. Everything I'm seeing says non-scholarship cadets incur a four-year service commitment.
I guess I'll find out when my non-scholarship cadet contracts this Fall semester.
Trinity Ag
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S
74OA said:

Trinity Ag said:

74OA said:

IC"(I want to serve my country first and foremost, but I also don't want to be miserable for 8 years.)" Some notes:

1. Eight years for ROTC contract these days, not 4?! Wow.
2. No one knows you better than you, so go with your gut in picking a Service and if you find yourself with real concerns about your second or third options, don't let people push you where you don't really want to go. Different strokes for different folks.
3. After all, there's plenty of other ways to serve the country and your community.

Eight years total commitment -- but only 4 active duty if you choose that route. The other four -- or the entire eight -- for can be National Guard, USAR, or Ready Reserve.

However, many Cadets volunteer for an additional 4 year Active Duty Service Obligation to get their branch of choice. But that is optional.
I believe that's for scholarship cadets. Everything I'm seeing says non-scholarship cadets incur a four-year service commitment.
the total service obligation for any contract (once you reach the Advance Course -- Junior year) is 8 total years.

Scholarship: 4 Active, 4 Reserve (including IRR)

Non-Scholarship: 3 Active, 5 Reserve (including IRR)

Cadets commissioned but not selected for Active Duty can serve their entire 8 years in the Reserves.

ROTC Service Commitments
74OA
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Trinity Ag said:

74OA said:

Trinity Ag said:

74OA said:

IC"(I want to serve my country first and foremost, but I also don't want to be miserable for 8 years.)" Some notes:

1. Eight years for ROTC contract these days, not 4?! Wow.
2. No one knows you better than you, so go with your gut in picking a Service and if you find yourself with real concerns about your second or third options, don't let people push you where you don't really want to go. Different strokes for different folks.
3. After all, there's plenty of other ways to serve the country and your community.

Eight years total commitment -- but only 4 active duty if you choose that route. The other four -- or the entire eight -- for can be National Guard, USAR, or Ready Reserve.

However, many Cadets volunteer for an additional 4 year Active Duty Service Obligation to get their branch of choice. But that is optional.
I believe that's for scholarship cadets. Everything I'm seeing says non-scholarship cadets incur a four-year service commitment.
the total service obligation for any contract (once you reach the Advance Course -- Junior year) is 8 total years.

Scholarship: 4 Active, 4 Reserve (including IRR)

Non-Scholarship: 3 Active, 5 Reserve (including IRR)

Cadets commissioned but not selected for Active Duty can serve their entire 8 years in the Reserves.

ROTC Service Commitments
Got it, thanks. Appears to vary by Service, as near as I can tell, the AF requires 4 years ADSC and the Navy 3 years ADSC for non-scholarship, non-rated ROTC applicants. I can't find an additional Reserve requirement for those two?

AFROTC
NROTC
DogCo84
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AG
I'm pretty sure the 8-year TOTAL service obligation is universal (i.e. not service dependent). What varies is the portion of the commitment that is active duty. My son is Navy enlisted and has an 8 year commitment--6 years AD to get his rating/job of choice.

Interestingly, the total service obligation for my enlistment in 1982 was only 6 years. Between 1982 and 1988 (when I ETS'd from AD), Congress or the DoD had changed the standard total service obligation to 8 years. I remember this pretty clearly because it was an issue when I reviewed my discharge paperwork at ETS--they had me down to serve another 2 years of IRR service. I had to show them my enlistment which clearly required 6 years--I was done.
Aggie118
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Howdy all! Sorry I've been away for some time! I just want to thank y'all for all of your inputs and encouragement when it comes to this. It's helped a ton, and given me, I feel like, a good perspective going in. I'm going to go to basic camp this summer and I have been offered a scholarship upon completion of that when I return in the fall.
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