I've heard it is getting disbanded as well. The end of D-1 fits perfectly with where the University is heading.

Setting aside opinions on what constitutes hazing or whatever the offense was, surely we can agree that gross disobedience cannot be tolerated in a military organization. If company upperclassmen corporately flouted Corps regulations, then drastic measures were necessary. Obey or go away.

74OA said:

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Setting aside opinions on what constitutes hazing or whatever the offense was, surely we can agree that gross disobedience cannot be tolerated in a military organization. If company upperclassmen corporately flouted Corps regulations, then drastic measures were necessary. Obey or go away.

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I agree, it's the Corps of Cadets not a fraternity house.

Business Time said:

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I've heard it is getting disbanded as well. The end of D-1 fits perfectly with where the University is heading.

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D1 will continue into perpetuity, it's Spider D that's dying. God bless what she used to be.

DevilD77 said:

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Time to bring back Devil D-1. Plenty of us Devils from the 70's and 80's can show them how to be red ass without becoming dumb ass. Mainly because we can tell them not to do what we did!

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It has been suggested, but they don't want that culture either. They want a bunch of soy boys and yes men, like the commandant.

ABATTBQ87 said:

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CT'97 said:

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74OA said:

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Setting aside opinions on what constitutes hazing or whatever the offense was, surely we can agree that gross disobedience cannot be tolerated in a military organization. If company upperclassmen corporately flouted Corps regulations, then drastic measures were necessary. Obey or go away.

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I agree, it's the Corps of Cadets not a fraternity house.

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I wonder how many Cadets are actually in fraternities

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Probably more than you would think, but the number isn't terrible huge. A popular organization that cadets apply for outside of the Quad is Ol' Army gentlemen's society.

74OA said:

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Setting aside opinions on what constitutes hazing or whatever the offense was, surely we can agree that gross disobedience cannot be tolerated in a military organization. If company upperclassmen corporately flouted Corps regulations, then drastic measures were necessary. Obey or go away.

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Then we should kick out fat asses and the disabled who can't PT, if it's a "military organization".

WestTexAg12 said:

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74OA said:

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Setting aside opinions on what constitutes hazing or whatever the offense was, surely we can agree that gross disobedience cannot be tolerated in a military organization. If company upperclassmen corporately flouted Corps regulations, then drastic measures were necessary. Obey or go away.

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Then we should kick out fat asses and the disabled who can't PT, if it's a "military organization".

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I think that's most of the corps at this point.

74OA said:

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Setting aside opinions on what constitutes hazing or whatever the offense was, surely we can agree that gross disobedience cannot be tolerated in a military organization. If company upperclassmen corporately flouted Corps regulations, then drastic measures were necessary. Obey or go away.

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I can't tell you what happened with D-1, but I will say this. You should attend a university hazing seminar, and then let us know if you agree with the university's definition of what constitutes hazing.

They are basically disbanding them for doing PT. Meanwhile, a bunch of limp wristed babies are congratulating themselves on having the first female dog corporal who was given the honor after a push up competition.

Dutcher Creek said:

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Is this the group that was waterboarding Fish?

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I seriously doubt it, but if so...respect.

Quote:

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(6) "Hazing" means any intentional, knowing, or reckless act, occurring on or off the campus of an educational institution, by one person alone or acting with others, directed against a student, that endangers the mental or physical health or safety of a student for the purpose of pledging, being initiated into, affiliating with, holding office in, or maintaining membership in an organization. The term includes:

(A) any type of physical brutality, such as whipping, beating, striking, branding, electronic shocking, placing of a harmful substance on the body, or similar activity;

(B) any type of physical activity, such as sleep deprivation, exposure to the elements, confinement in a small space, calisthenics, or other activity that subjects the student to an unreasonable risk of harm or that adversely affects the mental or physical health or safety of the student;

(C) any activity involving consumption of a food, liquid, alcoholic beverage, liquor, drug, or other substance that subjects the student to an unreasonable risk of harm or that adversely affects the mental or physical health or safety of the student;

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The University and the Corps of Cadets don't get to define hazing -- State Law does.

Now, what is "reasonable" or what "adversely affects mental or physical health" is subject to a degree of interpretation.

The University investigation will make those determinations in this case.

The Standard tries to sets clear boundaries so there are no questions about what is legal, or within the bounds of the University conduct policy. If you think this is too stringent, doesn't allow room for "good bull", or makes the Corps "too easy" -- then you are taking your status as a student into your own hands. The UCMJ is no different, and has zero room for actions perceived as Soldier abuse.

If you willfully disregard what is written in the Standard or University Conduct Policy, you then place yourself in a situation where the object of the treatment assesses whether they consider it reasonable or adverse, and the University conduct board makes the ruling -- not the Commandant or the Bulls.

Plenty of room for disagreement in theory. But former students encouraging current students/Cadets to blow off the rules should understand the jeopardy to the student.

The University isn't going to give the Corps more slack than it gives fraternities.

INOX said:

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Spider69 said:

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Dutcher Creek said:

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Is this the group that was waterboarding Fish?s

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I don't think there was any water boarding involved, but I don't know. I do know in my fish year (note "fish isn't EVER capitalized), by April most '68 pissheads were just a little leary of screwing with '69 Spider D fish because we had little fear of pissheads! After drowning out two pissheads & in an after CQ crap out in those pissheads' hole with 17 fish & 1 frog (from a fall class that began with 52 fish) two pissheads came within about 10 seconds of flying out of a fourth stoop window until two other pisshead buddies busted in to disperse the crap out! AND nobody would think of crying to the Trigon or any staff rat!

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What you're describing is a dysfunctional organization that has zero place in my military. If that behavior was condoned or even tolerated then zero leaders were produced.

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False, tons of incredibly successful military and private leaders were produced from that outfit. Maybe you should read up on hamburger hill, one of the Pissheads he's talking about lead that battle.

INOX said:

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Spider69 said:

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Dutcher Creek said:

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But Is this the group that was waterboarding Fish?s

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I don't think there was any water boarding involved, but I don't know. I do know in my fish year (note "fish isn't EVER capitalized), by April most '68 pissheads were just a little leary of screwing with '69 Spider D fish because we had little fear of pissheads! After drowning out two pissheads & in an after CQ crap out in those pissheads' hole with 17 fish & 1 frog (from a fall class that began with 52 fish) two pissheads came within about 10 seconds of flying out of a fourth stoop window until two other pisshead buddies busted in to disperse the crap out! AND nobody would think of crying to the Trigon or any staff rat!

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What you're describing is a dysfunctional organization that has zero place in my military. If that behavior was condoned or even tolerated then zero leaders were produced.

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Yep, Spiders have done nota on leadership! Here's a few things written by '66 & '68 Spiders and a book on Hamburger Hill in Vietnam:

[url]https://www.amazon.com/Michael%20L.%20Lanning/e/B000APMQCA/ref=la_B000APMQCA_pg_1?rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_82%3AB000APMQCA&sort=author-pages-popularity-rank&ie=UTF8&qid=1523916698

https://www.amazon.com/Dragon-Lives-Forever-Williams-Ford-University/dp/1603440607

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/24/troops-count-cost-vietnam-hamburger-hill-archive-1969[/url]

Just from my Class, '69, there's a TAMU Student Body President, CCA Corps Hall of Honor recipient, and from '66-'69 only four TAMU COALS Distinguished Graduates.

So? Dysfunction? Zero Leaders?

Then why not share those motivational and inspirational stories vs bragging about potentially throwing fellow cadets out of windows or water boarding? Those are examples of how not to be a leader---except the guy who stepped in. I certainly don't know the whole story there but I'm sure there were lessons to be learned.

And really not knowing the whole story is one reason we are always criticizing here. We need to get the facts first and then provide solutions otherwise we sound like the whinny millennial we all despise. There is a ton experience on this board. Why not use that knowledge to enlighten the younger generation?

And for what its worth I'll take past and present cadets over any student at any other school.