http://amarillo.com/local-news/news/business/2017-12-19/bell-helicopter-test-flies-new-v-280-valor-it-vies-lucrative

Or a three way with the tail of an F-117A

Local photographer got some nice shots of a hover test

http://www.yellowshoephotos.com/Bell-V-280-Valor/

You have to go to the link to look, he has them protected from sharing.

BQ78 said:

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Looks like an MH-60 and a V-22 had a baby.

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Spade or neuter your lawn darts?

Legit question: How is this an upgrade to the V22? What will it do that the V22 cannot, and what is the expected cost for this once in actual production versus what the V22 is now?

I am a ground guy, so I have no idea what this new aircraft is supposed to replace or what void it is filling.

I think the idea is to update and refine the V-22 concept. I think the V-22 was more to replace the Chinook and Ch-53 as a heavy-lift platform. I think the V-280 is meant to replace the Huey and Blackhawk.

Part of the refinement is side doors instead of simply a back door, and only the props/driveline rotate, as opposed to the Osprey, where the entire engine rotated.

I assume the Valor maintains the cross-drive setup where both rotors keep turning, even if one engine fails.

One change I've seen lately is that the Air Force used to send pilot to helicopter school before they sent them to train in Ospreys. No more, they go straight to Ospreys from SUPT.

I'm a Tanker (so not an aviation expert either) but, my guess is that it's smaller and therefore costs less.
Maybe flies faster? Maybe requires less of a clearing to land?

I don't know what the passenger load of a V-22 is but it seems like every time one crashes it winds up killing about half a platoon worth of Marines. Maybe with a smaller size, it could carry a smaller load and thereby have less of an impact to the mission if it crashes.

Also... since the different services never seem to buy the same stuff, the V-22 is clearly USMC so maybe having something that is similar but different gives the Army an opportunity to get in the tilt-rotor game.

Also, I don't think the Army can keep flying the Chinooks forever in the same way that the USAF is still flying the B-52. So maybe there's a replacement opportunity. I wonder what competition this is up against from a procurement standpoint.

The AF flies V-22s, don't know why Army doesn't

I understand it as a Blackhawk which can match Osprey performance and perform escort functionality. Basically boosting the speed & range of a successful concept.

I wonder if the smoke screen when engines start will be eliminated by keeping them in a fixed position.

The V-280 is Bell's entry for the Army's FVL (Future Vertical Lift) program. Like stated above, it's replacing several different aircraft.

It hasn't been downselected yet, though. That will be in a few years. I think it'll win though.

It's not a V-22 copy by any means. It's control laws are developed in house, not by Boeing.

It's got a sidestick controller (not a center cyclic) and a collective-like power lever instead of the V-22s Thrust Control Lever (which is like a throttle on many military aircraft).

Seems to be just as easy to fly though.

As a side note, if it does get picked, maybe IT could become Marine One. There are several V-22s in HMX-1 but none of them are white tops. I've been told it's because the exhaust from the nacelles would f up the grass at the WH. The 280 doesn't have that issue.

CanyonAg77 said:

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I'm going to guess that the V-22s initial accident rate also counts against its use as Marine One.

On a side note, I happened to be in DC as Trump was leaving the White House in Marine One. It was very cool, as two helos orbited as M1 sat on the grass. When it was time to leave, the two orbiting aircraft swooped down to buzz the White House. At the same time, M1 lifted off and joined the formation. It was nearly impossible to see, even from where I was 1/2 block away, which helicopter was actually Marine One.

Well done, Marines.

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That could be. But, it's been a LONG time since then and it's proven it's very reliable over the past decade. Which is why it was selected for HMX-1 in the first place.

From what I'm hearing, flight Test for the V-280 is going quite well. Which is great. It's been cool watching that program from the beginning.

BTW, I bet that was badass watching them fly out of there. Would be something I'd love to see sometime...

Some V-280 photos...

Here's a mock-up built several years ago:



Me playing:

CanyonAg77 said:

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I think the idea is to update and refine the V-22 concept. I think the V-22 was more to replace the Chinook and Ch-53 as a heavy-lift platform. I think the V-280 is meant to replace the Huey and Blackhawk.

Part of the refinement is side doors instead of simply a back door, and only the props/driveline rotate, as opposed to the Osprey, where the entire engine rotated.

I assume the Valor maintains the cross-drive setup where both rotors keep turning, even if one engine fails.

One change I've seen lately is that the Air Force used to send pilot to helicopter school before they sent them to train in Ospreys. No more, they go straight to Ospreys from SUPT.

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The Osprey replaced the CH-46 for the Marines. It replaced the MH-53 for AFSOC. It is replacing the C-2 for the Navy. It's not replacing chinooks for anyone, and it's not heavy lift.

The V-280 is indeed intended to replace the blackhawk, but the only branch that uses a huey variant operationally are the Marines, and theirs are pretty new. Maybe someday, but no plans as of now.

Thanks for the corrections.

Speaking of Hueys, the local Bell plant that builds the Osprey and is testing the V-280, also is rebuilding Cobras and Hueys. The Hueys look a lot different, with electronics in the nose, and baffles over the exhaust. Sound different, too. Four blade rotor now, instead of two.

I believe they strip the old air frame down to nothing and rebuild, so its essentially a brand new aircraft.

All of the old hueys (UH-1N) are gone now and replaced by UH-1Y's like in your picture but there are still AH-1W's to be replaced by AH-1Z's

CanyonAg77 said:

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I'm going to guess that the V-22s initial accident rate also counts against its use as Marine One.

On a side note, I happened to be in DC as Trump was leaving the White House in Marine One. It was very cool, as two helos orbited as M1 sat on the grass. When it was time to leave, the two orbiting aircraft swooped down to buzz the White House. At the same time, M1 lifted off and joined the formation. It was nearly impossible to see, even from where I was 1/2 block away, which helicopter was actually Marine One.

Well done, Marines.

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Used to see them do the same thing years ago when Bush was president and was coming and going from the ranch in Crawford.

1. They never fly the same route coming or going or on successive days.
2. They never fly in a particular order.
3. All three H3s are identical with no numbers or markings on the exterior to differentiate them.
4. There is ALWAYS two to three Blackhawks with them. Generally several kilometers ahead of the H3s and then one or two on the flanks .
5. You are allowed to take pictures of the exterior but not the interiors of the aircraft. I thought that was strange since all the bells and whistles are hanging on the exterior.


HMX-1 used to keep a CH-46 and a UH-60 on hand on different occasions. I think the 46 has been replaced with at V-22.

Before 911 you could walk around (but not under) AF 1 too.

GAC06 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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I think the idea is to update and refine the V-22 concept. I think the V-22 was more to replace the Chinook and Ch-53 as a heavy-lift platform. I think the V-280 is meant to replace the Huey and Blackhawk.

Part of the refinement is side doors instead of simply a back door, and only the props/driveline rotate, as opposed to the Osprey, where the entire engine rotated.

I assume the Valor maintains the cross-drive setup where both rotors keep turning, even if one engine fails.

One change I've seen lately is that the Air Force used to send pilot to helicopter school before they sent them to train in Ospreys. No more, they go straight to Ospreys from SUPT.

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The Osprey replaced the CH-46 for the Marines. It replaced the MH-53 for AFSOC. It is replacing the C-2 for the Navy. It's not replacing chinooks for anyone, and it's not heavy lift.

The V-280 is indeed intended to replace the blackhawk, but the only branch that uses a huey variant operationally are the Marines, and theirs are pretty new. Maybe someday, but no plans as of now.

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I'm curious. Where does the Army mention what the FVL will replace?

CanyonAg77 said:

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Thanks for the corrections.

Speaking of Hueys, the local Bell plant that builds the Osprey and is testing the V-280, also is rebuilding Cobras and Hueys. The Hueys look a lot different, with electronics in the nose, and baffles over the exhaust. Sound different, too. Four blade rotor now, instead of two.

I believe they strip the old air frame down to nothing and rebuild, so its essentially a brand new aircraft.

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I believe that was the original plan, but due to heavy usage of the existing aircraft due to deployments, they're actually building them from scratch.

Boeing and Lockheed/Sikorsky describe their product as a medium assault helicopter, about 30,000lbs. That's a little bigger than a UH-60, but much closer than a 47 or 53. The program is supposed to replace "all rotorcraft" in the military eventually but I think that's supposed to include as of yet unseen variants, plus the usual hopeful salesmanship of the defense contractors.

60's have been around longer without major updates than other helicopters, and there are way more of them than anything else, so it makes sense for the Army to be driving this. The Marines are still buying new UH/AH-1's, MV-22's, and is just getting started buying CH-53K's.

V-280 is halfway there. Got to 140kt with rotors at 60deg

It's expected to get to "cruise" mode (what the V-22 calls airplane mode) by the end of the summer.

Making some good progress.

A local guy (from the Amarillo Aviation and fried foods appreciation society) took these shots of the V-280

https://www.yellowshoephotos.com/Bell-V-280-Valor-Test-Flight-582018-KAMA/

Ag with kids said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Thanks for the corrections.

Speaking of Hueys, the local Bell plant that builds the Osprey and is testing the V-280, also is rebuilding Cobras and Hueys. The Hueys look a lot different, with electronics in the nose, and baffles over the exhaust. Sound different, too. Four blade rotor now, instead of two.

I believe they strip the old air frame down to nothing and rebuild, so its essentially a brand new aircraft.

---

I believe that was the original plan, but due to heavy usage of the existing aircraft due to deployments, they're actually building them from scratch.

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When the Marine Corps transitioned from the AH-1T Cobra to the AH-1W, the plan was to use the T model airframes. When we went to pick up the W models for our squadron, the guys at Bell in FW told us that the airframes were so trashed that the only thing they used were the bureau number plates in the cockpit.

The test pilots son is an AG and a PJ instagram is @SludaX

It flew in cruise mode (airplane mode) this week

Obviously not too fast though, since the gear was still down.

There are three capability sets that FVL is considering...assault being on of them. Blackhawks, while in service for a long time like the Apache are a newer fleet or will be once M Models are completely fielded. At the most recent display of V-280's display version, they had an assault version and an assault version, basically changing the inside of the cabin to demonstrate both configurations. We will see I guess...

Big article, lots of videos

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/21162/we-talk-v-280-valor-versus-v-22-osprey-with-bells-head-of-tiltrotor-systems?utm_source=spotim&utm_medium=spotim_recirculation&spotim_referrer=recirculation

https://warisboring.com/we-got-a-closer-look-at-the-flying-v-280-valor/

Apparently, the first public showing of the V-280 was yesterday. I'm angry I didn't get an invite.

Quote:

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On June 18, 2018, Bell's V-280 Valor prototype took off for its first public demonstration, six months after its first flight. It's another, early glimpse at the tiltrotor aircraft that could one day replace a significant portion of the U.S. military's UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters, among other aircraft...


During the V-280 flight on June 18, the sleek even menacing-looking aircraft made two 200-mile-per-hour passes over Bell's tiltrotor assembly plant in cruise mode with its rotors in the forward position, passing 38 total flight hours since December 2017. Soon, Bell wants to increase the prototype's speed in the coming months to more than 320 miles per hour.

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Agsrock44 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Thanks for the corrections.

Speaking of Hueys, the local Bell plant that builds the Osprey and is testing the V-280, also is rebuilding Cobras and Hueys. The Hueys look a lot different, with electronics in the nose, and baffles over the exhaust. Sound different, too. Four blade rotor now, instead of two.

I believe they strip the old air frame down to nothing and rebuild, so its essentially a brand new aircraft.

---

I believe that was the original plan, but due to heavy usage of the existing aircraft due to deployments, they're actually building them from scratch.

---

When the Marine Corps transitioned from the AH-1T Cobra to the AH-1W, the plan was to use the T model airframes. When we went to pick up the W models for our squadron, the guys at Bell in FW told us that the airframes were so trashed that the only thing they used were the bureau number plates in the cockpit.

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Why haven't the marines adopted the Blackhawk and the Apache? Both are superior to the Huey and Cobra and have been in service for a good while now, and have a proven record.

Superior in what ways?

Rebuilding an aircraft doesn't really mean rebuilding an aircraft...the cost savings is parts rebuild which go back into the supply system while the unit receives a rebuilt 'chassis', particularly when an airframe is really only about 20 years old.

The Blackhawk and Apache were designed for Air Land Battle though design started in a joint process (if I recall). Over time as that has changed, Apaches still work as DIV level assets to kill tanks and other targets. In a 2018 DA fight, perhaps that is not too much different combined with more reconnaissance/security roles. I don't know that the Marines have the same strategy for utilization in their task forces. I'd be interested to know. But the bottom line and definite driving factor - Cost. The Marines invested heavily in the CH-53K as the future of their medium and heavy lift. In addition, they have their own FW to compliment their CAS. I'm only speculating here, but I figure they are prioritizing their $$ on assault aircraft and fast movers to accomplish their mission and address further modernization through reubuilds? I haven't even begun to look at the integration costs...training seats, doctrinal shuffle (reach, capability), and ship board requirements in terms of space, parts, fuel, etc. I'd be interested to hear a Marine Aviator's POV.