For the military minds

1,125 Views | 7 Replies | Last: 12 yr ago by Trinity Ag
mrad85
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Does anyone have an idea of the date for a complete draw down of forces in Afghan?

I know 2014 was a target, but I know that we are still shipping over fresh troops. I'm just hoping they don't extend their deployment.
Gator2_01
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What do you mean by "complete drawdown?" While the majority of troops may be leaving by the end of 2014 there will still be a presence. We're still building infrastructure at the larger bases as we close some of the FOBs.
Tango Mike
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Units were arriving in far northern Iraq as late as Sept 2011, preparing for an Oct 2011 road march. Of course, there was a valiant 11th-hour effort to not leave Iraq that was thankfully killed by Maliki.

Units there still have to be rotated out, they can't just stay forever until we decide to egress.
Ulysses90
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quote:
We're still building infrastructure at the larger bases as we close some of the FOBs.


When has building infrastructure ever been a guarantee that US forces will stay and use it? New and virtually unused facilities litter the globe in the wake of US military withdrawals.

In the space of 90 days South Vietnam went from the 15th best equipped military in the world to the 3rd best equipped based strictly on what MACV left on the ground when Nixon declared that Vietnamization had been accomplished. There was probably not a more modern and better equipped naval base in the world at the time than Cam Ranh Bay when the US withdrew.

Seven years later the US withdrew forces and relinquished title to the Panama Canal Zone. That was an extremely well outfitted base and maintained in beautiful condition until it was given to the Panamanians.

I would wager that the legacy force in Afghanistan will be hardly a figleaf outside the embassy by 2015 and barely larger than the current US military presence in Iraq. Bear in mind that there has not been a single instance since 2009 when President Obama has accepted any recommended COA on troop levels from the JCS or COCOMS in Iraq, Afghanistan, or anywhere else (except perhaps Darwin AU). When Petreaus and McKiernan briefed the President Elect on troop surge necessary to defeat the resurgent Taliban in late 2008 they offered low, medium, and high risk force levels for the mission at 80k, 60k, and 40k. The President sent 30k. The deliberate diplomatic malpractice that led to no SOFA in Iraq made any stability force impossible. The post-2014 "zero option" was floated because that is what the POTUS wants to see irrespective of what has been sacrificed thus far. I'm not taking the position that US security or strategic objectives were or weren't worth that sacrifice that have been made but I am taking the position that whatever gains have been made or have not been made is irrelevant to the calculus of the CINC as to how many troops will remain after 2014.

HollywoodBQ
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reading Ulysses90's post and reading the subject line of the OP, the answer is...

It doesn't matter what the Military minds think.
The decision is going to be made by a Civilian mind, regardless of what the right/recommended Military course of action is.

For the record. My initial late 2001 estimate was somewhere between 2051 and NEVER for complete US troop withdrawal. Taking into account the latest friendly forces attacks on our own troops (I'm including Aussie Diggers here), my recommendation is either NOW or NEVER. I don't think we have the stomach for NEVER and I don't think we'll staff/fund that one properly. So the NOW option sounds pretty good to me.
Ulysses90
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quote:
Taking into account the latest friendly forces attacks on our own troops (I'm including Aussie Diggers here), my recommendation is either NOW or NEVER.


The tragedy is that this decision could have been made in 2002 before thousands of American lives were spent there and the outcome would have been the same. Once we accepted that holding honest elections in Afghanistan with nothing but criminals on the ballot was acceptable the cause truly was lost. After over a decade of US presence Afghanistan is a country that constitutionally punishes apostasy to Islam with the death penalty an accepts as a cultural norm the Pashtu tradition of pedoophilia againt boys. This was the case at the moment Mike Spann was killed at Mazar e Sharif in 2001 and little has changed.
HollywoodBQ
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Thanks for posting about Mike Spann. I didn't know his story, or that he was the first American killed in combat in Afghanistan in 2001.

2278 Americans have died in Afghanistan to date including one today.

The Brits didn't figure out Afghanistan right away either. The fact that the Brits fought 3 Afghan Wars spread across 80 years just amazes me.

First Anglo-Afghan War (1839–1842).

Second Anglo-Afghan War (1878–1880).

3rd Anglo-Afghan War 1919.



[This message has been edited by HollywoodBQ (edited 9/26/2013 8:11a).]
BigJim49 AustinNowDallas
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Re First Anglo- Afghan War - Flashman reference. Read book = funny. Instead of the doctor being the only survivor, Flashman survived, too !

Course he was a coward deserting the field - Brits didn't want to admit he had escaped.

All fiction.
Trinity Ag
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Current mission will end Dec 31 2014.

How many stay to do "what's next" (security force assistance, counter-terrorism, embassy security) is still undetermined.

Somewhere between 0 and 10,000.

Probably in the middle.
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