Tell me what you know about RIP, RASP, and ROAPS, please. I'm interested in getting into the batt. I am currently at IBOLC so more than anything I'd like to know about ROAPS, I should get a school slot for 26June and from there go to my 1st Platoon. What is the process after my PL time is up and I want to get into the Ranger Batt? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

<----- Should have gone to Ranger School

Regrets

Good luck!!

[This message has been edited by Mooch98 (edited 3/21/2011 11:54p).]

RIP is for privates
RASP is what replaced ROP, for E-5 and up. It used to be a 3-week gentlemen's course, now it's more physical and about 4 weeks long.

After you get a PL OER, send your packet to the regiment recruiter. They will determine if you get a RASP date (pre-screening). If you get a RASP date, you will then be assessed while there and selected or not selected.

Remember, the tab is a school, the scroll is a way of life.

[This message has been edited by 1stRangersAg (edited 3/22/2011 8:17a).]

Anyone know anything about the NG's pre-Ranger program? I know I'll have to do it before Ranger School, but don't know much other than that.

I'm not eligible anymore to go to Ranger School...and I don't think my body could handle it anyway.

I'm too low speed high drag for that stuff.

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Remember, the tab is a school, the scroll is a way of life

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Agree. Got the tab (Ranger Class 6-80), was never in a batt, and I regret it.

There was one guy in my unit in 2002 that wouldn't believe anyone that didn't wear a ranger tab (and he was by far the biggest dumbass to ever wear the uniform). He was trying to hit on some girls during the 4ID wargame while we went to Austin on a night off. When they blew him off, he actually shouted back "at least I've got my tab...where's your's?!!"

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When they blew him off, he actually shouted back "at least I've got my tab...where's your's?!!"

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WOW! Just wow!

1stRangers - do they not allow 2LT's into a Ranger Battalion?

Not really. I knew one guy who got a job as a 2LT, after he was the ranger course honor grad. He didn't get a PL job though - he just made copies and coffee in the 3 shop. It's even harder now because there is so much deployment experience out in the force that the unit doesn't want to take a chance on a cherry 2LT that hasn't proven himself in Iraq/Afghanistan.

Thx.

So what does the typical command structure look like?

1LT as a PL?
Major as a company commander like in Aviation?

Just curious... My biggest military regret - my recruiter was a tanker. Hence, I was a tanker. Turned down Infantry with an Airborne option sitting at the MEPS. It took me about 4 weeks into OSUT to realize that I really didn't much care for tanks (mainly due to my aversion to grease and fumes) and I would have much preferred light infantry as I liked to hump. Course I could have enlisted 11 only to end up on a Bradley or M113 and still be around grease and fumes anyway.

If it's the same as I recall.....

Platoon leaders are 1LTs, with PL time in an Infantry bn.

Company commanders are Captains, and if I recall correctly, it's a second company command - they must have successfully completed a command.

Not certain on either.

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I knew one guy who got a job as a 2LT

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I knew one who was a platoon leader in a Ranger Batt. as a 2LT, but he was #1 in his class at West Point.

Like anywhere else there are the occasional freaks, like the #1 grad at USMA, etc.

PLs are 1LTs, XOs are 1LTs or junior CPTs, it's a 2nd command, and it's pretty common for the commander to be a major long before he leaves.

I spent 4 years in 3/75 and got out last May. I'd be more than happy to answer any specific questions -- just e-mail me: bryce at cortiers dot com

PL's start out as 1LT and make CPT fairly quickly. CO's end up being Majors for the most of their time -- remember, officers have to perform their respective position in the big Army before they can take a spot in Regiment.

--------------------------------
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RASP 1 replaced RIP (E-5 and below); RASP 2 replaced ROP (officers and E-6 and above).

Check out Armyranger.com for everything you could ever want to know.

--------------------------------
Cortiers Real Estate
www.collegestationinvestments.com

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officers have to perform their respective position in the big Army before they can take a spot in Regiment.

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I've never heard of a Ranger Battalion S6 who hadn't had a command. (remember HRC thinks Company Command and Battalion S6 hold equal weight now)

Kyle98,
The National Guard runs one of the best pre-Ranger courses available. It's not uncommon to have guys from group along side you in a class. Almost if not all the instructors are cross trained with the RI's and walk lanes to stay up on what's being expected.

The course is two weeks and you have to graduate to get a slot in Ranger school. Looks for the Warrior Training Center at Ft. Benning.https://www.benning.army.mil/infantry/wtc/
I had a good friend who worked there and was supposed to go to PreRanger/Ranger school before I got blown up. It's a top notch program and if you graduate from there and don't get hurt you have a very good chance to earn your tab.


[This message has been edited by CT'97 (edited 4/11/2011 1:04p).]

[This message has been edited by CT'97 (edited 4/11/2011 1:04p).]

Here's a story I like to share....when I went thru Ranger school in 1980, we stayed in the old "squad hooches" during the mountain phase. Once you occupied your hooch, it was obvious what the tradition was - everyone wrote their names on the rafters. So I followed suit, and used a Marksalot to write "Ranger Red .... ATM '78" on one of the 1x4 rafters. Fast forward to 1998, I'm a class agent, so my contact info is listed in the Texas Aggie. I get an email from a guy who had been a fish in my outfit when I was first sergeant. After his fish year he went to West Point, and got his commission from there. As a Captain, he did an assignment at the Mountain Ranger Camp, about the same time the new facilities were being completed and the old ones were being demolished. So one day he does a walk thru of the old hooches just before they are to be torn down, and sees my name on the rafter. He took a saw and cut it down, and kept it just in case he ever ran across me again. Several years later (1998) he's at A&M getting a masters, and sees my name listed. He sent me an email telling me this story, I gave him my address, and he shipped me the rafter. It's now displayed on the wall in my office at home.

Cool story Red!

BoozerRed, ol' B-2 '97 CO here (became Buzzard my p-head year). I remember an ol' Boozer coming to my room before a game circa 97. We shot the s*** for a while, and he mentioned going to Ranger School just after a couple guys died of hypothermia. I'm sure there were several of you who fit the description...but was that still in the back of everyone's mind when you went?

Thanks for the info CT'97! I know that as an Infantry officer in the Guard, I will most likely attend Ranger School. I'd like to go right after IBOLC and Airborne, assuming my unit isn't getting ready to deploy by then.

Fly Army - I remember when that story broke - it was well after I attended. My biggest concern when I went was to not get the January class right after I finished IOBC. Two reasons (1) I wanted to go to Airborne school first and (2) I didn't want to freeze my ass off. I even went and found the proverbial little old lady in tennis shoes and begged her to place me the Airborne class right after IOBC. It worked, because I got jump school, followed by the Ranger class that started the end of February. It's a good thing, because that January Ranger class was decimated by attrition, mainly to cold weather injuries, but many of them just quit. And many were recycled to my class. With that said, I'll add that going thru Ranger school Feb-Apr pretty much sucked, too.

I've often thought that there is an inherently unfair practice of putting these super difficult courses in times where the weather has a greater than normal chance to break a team; whereas if the same team when through in April they would have succeeded in all likelyhood.

When my dad went through OCS (Vietnam era) his Commander and NCOIC's would limit the training during really cold and inclement weather. Their collective philosophy was that the trainees would have plenty of time to learn to freeze their asses off in the real world. And in real world, missions are geared toward success of the mission and if the weather isn't conducive to the success of the mission, the mission is postponed until there is a greater possiblity of mission success.

Obviously there are certain missions that MUST be done regardless of optimal conditions or not (Operation Overlord) but even that one was postponed several times to ensure the best possible outcome. Losing troops on the battlefield is one thing, losing them to the elements and the associated illnesses, fatigue, and injuries is quite a different thing. You can prevent those non combat losses by waiting a couple of weeks and keep troop strength up.

So, why put Ranger/Special Forces/BUD'S training during times where the washout ratio is higher knowing that these men would not endure the same prolonged scenarios in the real world? They will have missions that require this but they'd get more down time before or following the missions to recharge rather than going from one exhaustive mission in poor conditions to the next exhaustive misssion in poor conditions in order to complete a training schedule cycle within the cycle parameters; and to be judged by people who may not have had to endure the same elemental scenarios.

Just my meager 2 cents, having never completed any of them.

[This message has been edited by Say Chowdah (edited 4/14/2011 10:12a).]

I think having to deal with less than ideal weather is just one more factor that separates the toughest men. Ideally the weather would be horrible for all selection type training. While it may be unrealistic as far as what you would probably be exposed on most real world missions, it is an amazing substitute for the other stresses of combat that can be replicated in a training scenario.

I wouldn't want anyone on my team who would quit because it was cold or raining outside -- I would want to know that they could handle any situation.

--------------------------------
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www.collegestationinvestments.com

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I wouldn't want anyone on my team who would quit because it was cold or raining outside -- I would want to know that they could handle any situation.

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It is obviously impossible to argue this point. However, a guy going through Ranger training in May didn't have to prove that he was capable of wading through a river at night in January and not get hypothermia and die from it. Even the toughest of men will eventually not survive elemental conditions that are too extreme. That is a known fact. I think that to subject them to conditions that may kill them needlessly is a waste of talent. Therefore, I think it would be a smarter move to have the training in conditions that are favorable to seeing them succeed as in the real world, they probably would be under different conditions than that training would require.

A team leader would probably not elect to cross a river in January at night if it could be avoided and in most cases (other than life or death) it would be avoided. If it was life or death (escape and evasion) no amout of training is going to help them survive it anyway. It isn't like the body is going to remember - hey, you've been though this before back at Ranger School, you'll be fine.

There is a reason that at BUDS they aren't allowed to be in water more than 14 minutes at temperatures below a certain point. They guys will freeze to death (saw it on the Military Channel) and as soon as they are out of the water they have to dry off and warm back up with food and hot beverages before continuing training.

Again, just my meager 2 cents having never accomplished anything like this so I may be completely off base here and feel free to say so if you think that.

They manage to make each phase of Ranger School equally as miserable. It's not fun walking all day long in the Florida heat in June. When I was in school, we had 7 heat cats in 1 day.

The idea is to make it suck as much as possible not matter what, without causing injury or killing students (which has happened in the past). They seem to do a better and better job of ensuring safety throughout the course.

Like I said before, this is the best way to simulate the stresses of real combat. Yes, training is not exactly like real life, but it teaches you the same mental toughness that is required.

And ya, you can't really understand it if you haven't been through both. It's easy to question the techniques from the outside -- but I would never trade the miserable time I had in Ranger School for something less difficult physically.

--------------------------------
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www.collegestationinvestments.com

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Yes, training is not exactly like real life, but it teaches you the same mental toughness that is required.

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Here is where I disagree. There is no point is trying to simulate combat. There are at least 300,000 soldiers who've experienced combat in the US Army without going through Ranger School to simulate it. So what is the purpose of the school? To simulate combat or to train men to have better skills if they need them?

I would do this:

1) Advanced infantry training - all ranks
2) Basic Combat Engineeering training (E1-E4; O2) Advanced Combat Engineering Training (E5-E7; O3-O5)
3) Basic Combat Lifesaving training (all ranks)
4) Advanced Commo training (including computer/wireless tapping) All ranks


That would be the Ranger forces in my world.

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Here is where I disagree. There is no point is trying to simulate combat. There are at least 300,000 soldiers who've experienced combat in the US Army without going through Ranger School to simulate it. So what is the purpose of the school? To simulate combat or to train men to have better skills if they need them?

I would do this:

1) Advanced infantry training - all ranks
2) Basic Combat Engineeering training (E1-E4; O2) Advanced Combat Engineering Training (E5-E7; O3-O5)
3) Basic Combat Lifesaving training (all ranks)
4) Advanced Commo training (including computer/wireless tapping) All ranks


That would be the Ranger forces in my world.

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The point of Ranger school is not to try to simulate combat, or to teach basic or advanced combat skills. It is a leadership course, centered around the concept of infantry tactics. The stress that is brought on simulates the stress of running combat missions in less than ideal conditions. The school teaches students how to lead men who are tired and hungry -- that is all. I never said that you could not be effective in combat without Ranger school, I would just rather have the people that I am working with and working under have that experience.

Keep in mind that Ranger school is just that - a school - that teaches leadership, planning, and decision making. Being a Ranger is a way of life, not just some school you complete. The skills that you described above are basically the skills taught in RASP 1 and 2, more or less. The point of that course, is to prepare soldiers for life in the Ranger Regiment, where they will actually learn how to be a Ranger.

The role the school plays in Regiment: it is a right of passage, and serves to fine tune individual's leadership skills so they can be prepared to take leadership roles within the unit. The school is not meant to teach tactics -- that occurs through on-going training within their own units.


--------------------------------
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www.collegestationinvestments.com

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The point of Ranger school is not to try to simulate combat, or to teach basic or advanced combat skills. It is a leadership course, centered around the concept of infantry tactics. The stress that is brought on simulates the stress of running combat missions in less than ideal conditions. The school teaches students how to lead men who are tired and hungry -- that is all.

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You've been there; I've not. I believe you.

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Keep in mind that Ranger school is just that - a school

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Herein lies the problem. I've been around plenty of officers who thought that wearing the tab meant that their opinion could not be questioned and anyone not wearing the tab wasn't worthy of their time...even if they were the SME on a particular subject.

It's not nearly as bad at Bragg. If you don't have a star or wreath on your wings, it's just assumed that you'll eventually get there.