Looking for some recommendations for contractors that can do a full kitchen remodel in the Friendswood area.
Already worked with an architect to come up with a set of drawings/plans, just need to get quotes at this point. First quote I got from a contractor I worked with before seemed way higher than what I expected so wanted to get a couple more quotes before pulling the trigger or making any concessions on layout and finishes. Thanks.

If Architect has nothing to refer from past inspections that made "A"s
then some Owners will begin to select fixtures and when enough of them listed, the supply house may have a suitable match in contractors that install such without "callbacks".

Referrals gleaned from forums such as this are obviously friends, from very limited scope, often novice experiences & few long-term observations.

BTW, I'm guessing your builder's guessimate is spot-on from what my "A" quality builders in Aggieland are telling me + bids they get that used to hold for weeks, now change daily ... with some items "bought" lagging behind months in delivery still.

Icing on the cake, COVID still striking all around us here ... just toss a rock and it hits another one smitten.

C House LLC

Cabinetmaker (32 years) here...let me know if you need any advice or guidance as far as cabinets go.

Cabinets are one item that GC's generally can make a HUGE amount of money on. They can easily mark up the cabinets 30-50%, for sometimes doing almost nothing except referring you to a 'design center'. It can be bordering on criminal at times. (And the 'design center' has marked them up 100% from the manufacturer somewhere in Michigan.) If you buy 'through' him, how much 'say' do you have in the style, layout, design points? How particular are you? How important is the kitchen, its layout, organizers, appliances, etc? Are you getting your money's worth? What happens if there is a problem? Who warranties? Who does the install?

Occasionally a good GC will allow you to work with a cabinetmaker that YOU choose, and he just applies a 'room prep fee' which is perfectly normal. A custom cabinetmaker can usually deliver a more specific product that YOU will need/want. And when you consider how much markup the GC, design center, etc adds, custom cabinetmakers may not be all that much more money for what you are actually getting. You will likely get a better product, a better VALUE, and have someone who lives locally who will take care of you should anything happen.

Do I have a problem with GC's making money? Hard NO. But have seen too many times where people do not get nearly the value for their money.

At the end of the day, all we want is our money's worth.

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions.

Our first contractor is quoting us for custom cabinets created in his shop by his own mill workers. He did mention that the quote was high because we spec'd "full overlay" cabinets and suggested we could cut the cost a bit by doing a partial overlay with about a 1/2" reveal between adjacent cabinets. Also mention that he could quote for prefab cabinets if there is something we like there as well.

Regarding cabinets, seems like custom is probably the way to go? We plan to live in this house for a long time.

Thanks for the detailed response on the cabinets. Quick question though about custom versus prefab.

Our GC has his own shop to make all of the cabinets. Our original quote was for a frameless cabinet with full overlay slab doors, all white oak plywood. The GC mentioned that the frameless option requires a lot of edge banding and extra labor that drives up the cost, and recommended a face frame (solid oak) and partial overlay with a minimal reveal to save some money on the labor. He did send some pictures of his previous jobs and the work looks good; almost gives the seamless aesthetic we're looking for.

To consider all of our options, we're getting some quotes for prefab cabinets that may be able to give us the look we want at a better price point. Still going with plywood boxes, but understand that the doors will all be particle board with a veneer which may lead to durability issues down the road.

Any recommendations on prefab cabinet brands, or any to definitely avoid? Our GC's wholesaler works with MasterCraft brands (liked the Kemper in studio) as well as some others, but online reviews seem pretty mixed.

Edit: Should also mention that the design center/wholesaler should be sending me and the GC the quote, so I assume any markup he gives on prefab would be purely for installation costs.

MRZ2010
You seem to know or are picking up a decent knowledge of the types of cabinetry, both in terms of construction and style. That's good, would rather have a person have knowledge than be surprised at what they get. I'll cover the pros and cons of each.

(I sometimes get long-winded on cabinets....strap in...)

Generally there are three types of cabinets made. Frame style inset doors, partial overlay, full overlay/frameless.

Frame style with inset doors/dfs:
-can be made with square frames or with a small half round bead
-a more 'traditional' look in general, especially if you add the bead
-you lose a tiny bit of storage space due to the frames, but not much
-frames can sometimes show wear/tear due to it being exposed
-the bead can collect dirt
-generally the most expensive due to the labor to assemble/spray the frames
-hinges can be exposed where you see the knuckle (more traditional) or concealed

Partial overlay:
-used to be very 'stock' looking, but major mfg companies have made great strides making them look better
-big gaps between doors and dfs are normal, this way GC's long ago can put their B-team carpenters on the install, install out of square, but the doors would still work
-the 'overlay' is normally 1/2" in each direction of the opening for most 'stock' cabinets, but these days it can be changed due to the hinges used. But the hinges that are used still require about a 1/4" gap between pairs of doors (the hinge side) to work and pivot properly.
-gapping can still vary greatly throughout kitchen
-cabinet frames are assembled quickly and this style is usually cheapest

Full overlay/frameless:
-all doors and dfs are in the same plane
-can be made to look very traditional or more modern (door/df style and moldings heavily influence this)
-gapping can be tight, I generally do 3/32" gaps throughout even in corners
-hinges have to be concealed but offer great adjustability
-doors can be paneled, slab, or a combo based on style
-generally an easy cabinet to construct
-price is usually in between the above two types of construction

Now, there is no ONE right way to build a cabinet. It depends on several factors; materials used to build the cabinet (carcass), machinery available in the shop, skill level, and of course, overall labor costs. If someone has a fairly small shop (lower overhead?) but good skill, they can build any style well. That is me, but I run a one-man-show and have been at it for a while.

Most shops of several people have some bigger machinery available, the key is an edgebander. My sister runs a mid sized shop in north Jersey and they have a $50k machine that would edge the entire kitchen and all the doors/dfs in one day with a hardwood band, not just veneer. So I am a bit confused on the GC's 'lots of edgebanding/labor' comment? If he does not have an edgebander, that means he is hand ironing a veneer with a 'hot melt' glue backing on a plywood door? NO, NO, NO Not on a kitchen.

True (veneer core) plywood is not perfectly smooth, you will see waves in it after lacquering and a stronger likelihood of bowing. Most cabinet companies use a flake or mdf core and edgeband a 1/8" hardwood edge on that is glued, not ironed on. After lacquering it is much smoother looking than plywood and likelihood of bowing is reduced. If a flake or mdf core door is edged properly it can look and function well. Me? If I had the request for a 'slab' look, I would use premium grade wood, but all solid. Using solid wood, white oak is not that expensive, sometimes is cheaper due to less labor (no banding!), and will function well forever.

The carcass as I call it, I use only 3/4" thick North American plywood with a hard maple veneer, finished clear. Backs are the same but in 1/2". Drawers are solid 5/8" hard maple to match. Is a 1/2" thick carcass, built well, and installed well almost as good? Yes.You don't NEED 3/4" construction, but my construction methods are set in stone and I prefer it. I sometimes am wary of people who investigate cabinets, say they are 'plywood construction'....finding out WHERE the cabinets are made is important. There is a huge amount of chinese cabinets coming here. They are made out of plywood only to survive the voyage here in humid containers. Chinese cabinetry is garbage. The chemicals they use in the plywood veneer and finishing materials (formaldehyde) will outgas for years. Please stay away from that.

Maybe I am a bit suspicious of a GC who says they will make a partial overlay cabinet? I know almost no one who will make that style custom. Most of us smaller cabinet guys do either frame style/inset or full overlay. Are you certain his shop will actually make them? Or is he buying them? Where is his shop? Will he invite you to see it? I invite everyone to my shop, no transparency (except for how much I like beer after hours). Sometimes a GC's "shop" is not what you might think.

I don't know brands of purchased cabinets. There are so many and I live in a different world being custom. But finding out their construction, slides, drawers, hinges, organizers, where made, type of lacquer, warranty, what if there is a problem, etc are all questions you need to ask to compare apples to apples if there are more than one company you are looking at.

Cabinetry is a bit complicated and as I said before, can be very different one company to the next. They may be similar price, but due to markups, one may be much less in quality than another?

I have to walk my dogs now. I may add more if I think of anything I left out. Let me know any more questions.

One correction...

I had said 'no transparency', of course meant, 'full transparency'.

Thanks for another detailed response, you've given me some good questions to ask the GC. Is there any reason that custom cabinet makers like you don't really do much partial overlay?

I ask because the GC seems to want to use solid wood face frames with an overlay slab. He mentioned that they can rip the face frames pretty narrow to get to that minimum 1/4" reveal that the hardware requires, and the pictures of his previous work do support this (we'll ask to see some in person). Also said, as you noted, that the hardware adjustments are a little easier on this style to get the doors to line up. I'm guessing that his cost for the frameless full overlay also includes some overhead for redoing doors that may not fit properly.

Regarding the door fronts in solid wood vs plywood, I assumed that plywood would be more dimensionally stable in a wet area like the kitchen (not that we intend to leave water on the cabinets, but stuff happens). Is there no risk of solid wood expanding or contracting in the grain direction and no longer fitting properly? Solid wood would be a great option if the doors ever need to be refinished.

There may be a variety of reasons custom cabinet guys normally don't do partial overlay:

-to distance themselves from the "stock" look (since stock cabinetry has come a long way since say, the 80's and 90's, the desire to differentiate is not as critical).
-limited hinge options makes it tough to do some weird things we are called on to pull off
-hard to compete financially against the machines that stamp out the partial overlay construction
-design details...my customers, who are regularly spending $35-75k for the kitchen cabinets can tell the difference between the look of the different cabinetry, and frame style inset, or frameless offer a wider variety of design points. You would be surprised how particular some people are about door gapping. Also, the partial overlay cabinet construction, the hinges that are used, the hinge side of the door sits about 1/8"-3/16" away from the cabinet face frame. Some may say 'who cares' (about door gapping or other details), but it's like wine...some are fine with a $10 bottle, others will spend a fortune.

One statement you made about overhead for redoing doors that may not fit properly...I guess I don't understand how a door may not fit properly. If he is adding money for THAT...he is not much of a 'cabinet' guy. If he has a shop, whether he makes his own doors, or orders them from a door company (I do that frequently), cabinets should not go out the door if the doors are not sized to fit. And when sizing doors, the time of the year is taken into account (as well as the species of wood). In the winter (I am in PA and we get pretty dry winters) I am doing bigger gaps expecting the doors to expand 1/32" to 1/16" in the middle of the summer. Yes, slab doors may expand more than that vs. a 5-piece recessed or raised panel door.

If wood is properly kiln dried, it will most likely expand and contract through the seasons about the same every year. Yes, every once in a while, a rogue door can flip out and twist five year later, but that is rare. Going back to a properly sized door, if it is sized correctly, adjusting a bit for the species and time of the year, the risk of a solid kitchen door or drawer front not fitting a few years later is extremely slim. As I said in my previous reply though, a ply/mdf/flake core door banded with only a super thin veneer with a glued backing is a little risky in a kitchen. If there is a thicker (1/8") band, I would feel better.

Some of these decisions may also be influenced by how hard you are on your kitchen. I was in a customer's kitchen recently that I did 6 years ago, still looks brand new. Then there are some people who are the classic 'bull in a china shop', if they are constantly banging into things, spilling things, etc. then they have to look at a more durable species of wood or cabinet type.

As you can probably tell I am a little suspicious of the GC. Some of his points or answers seem a bit weird, to the point where I will question their overall cabinet experience and knowledge. Just because a guy has 'a shop', doesn't mean it is a good shop.

What about the finish...what does he use/spray? Let me know, there are guys still spraying certain lacquers that will just not hold up in a kitchen or bath environment over time. Go see his jobs, look at the finish, does it look good, feel good? Can you see sanding marks? If it is stained, is it even? Most cabinet companies large or small should use a post catalyzed conversion varnish or one better is cabinet grade polyurethane (also post catalyzed). Let me know if you need any more clarification of this.