What's the consensus on Ruud unit? The reviews I've read are all over the place. I've got a quote for $7500 5 ton 14 seer variable speed with install. Thanks for the information.

southernboy1 said:

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What's the consensus on Ruud unit? The reviews I've read are all over the place. I've got a quote for $7500 5 ton 14 seer variable speed with install. Thanks for the information.

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How's that compare to your other quotes?

It's the best quote I've gotten by $500. My concern is with Ruud. I've owned and rented houses with a Ruud and had nothing but trouble. I am not sure if the quality is any better or not.

14 SEER variable speed??? I would double check that.

What is the $500 more offer?

And second, your history with Ruud probably answers your question already. Why save $500 if you are only going to regularly worry about whether you made the correct decision when your past experiences told you Ruud is not reliable?

Had a Ruud on my home now for 18 years, still going strong. I had only replaced a capacitor or two that went bad. Most units no matter what the brand use the same components. It is not the brand it is who does the install. Make sure they balance the system, do a tempt. drop across the coil and do a manual J test to make sure the unit is sized properly. My advice keep it simple, low seer and single speed. The more bells and whistles the more you are going to pay for repairs in the future when it goes down. Do believe all of the crap they try to sell you on energy savings.

Single speed on the gulf coast is not great. There are considerable "shoulder" months of high humidity, and summer months of high heat. With a single speed option, the system can only run at 100% in both those situations, usually resulting in poor humidity control. At least get a 2 speed.

Not to derail your thread, but we have to replace our unit, too. Our main issue is humidity. Our house is basically 3 exterior walls of windows, with the 4th (west) wall in a hillside. The windows are old, metal casement windows that crank out. We love them, but they define "inefficient". In the winter we have so much condensation that we have to wipe sills & windows every morning.

We've had an all electric heat pump & it actually does pretty well with comfortable temps. We have propane to the house so we could do that this time. Wondering if built in humidity devices are the way to go or if units are just so much more efficient now that they might handle more moisture.

Just going to keep my eye on this post for recommendations/advice. We have our hvac guy coming out to advise us soon & we trust his opinion 100%. He does all the units at our rentals & because of our loyalty, is always priced well & gets to us quickly. I always like to get opinions here though.

New / replacement units now are incredibly better about humidity control. Especially inverters.

On many installs we run new drains and often build a French drain outside due to the differences in how much humidity / water gets pulled out of the air.

( 20 year old systems have 20 year old everything attached and a possible 10 SEER then, hasn't been a 10 SEER for years, vs. 14 to 18 plus now )

If your house isn't sealed very well, And you get a new HVAC systems , drain line become issues

Southernboy if you are in the Houston area I would be more than happy to get you a quote. Jim Wolf Enviromax Services 713-466-7555.

Thanks for the replies. The units I had were 20 yrs ago that's why I was questioning quality at this time. Sorry 88 I'm south of SA.

If you want Aggie owned and operated , you can call us for a bid. Our installs crews will travel and our service route should be extending to San Antonio by the end of this year.

As someone with a new heat pump, I still have to wipe the windows down after the cold fronts blow in. I would recommend a whole home ventilating dehumidifier in addition to your heat pump.

Nothing wrong with Ruud. Very dependable units when properly installed. Did you see that last part? When properly installed. All brands fail and all brands have had periods of serious sucking. Some more than others but Rheem/Ruud is not a brand that has long periods of sucking. If I were buying a new unit it would be a Rheem/Ruud first choice or Trane/American Standard second. Run from anything Daikin (Amana, Goodman, GMC), Lennox (Armstrong, allied) really sucks last fifteen years, Carrier is fair but get the Vaseline out when it breaks, I will not take any product by Johnson Controls even if given to me (York, Coleman, Luxaire, Evcon). Bottom line is every unit is made by man and all will fail. My biggest fear from your post is you're shopping based on price. You're likely to get burned. There is a very large Ruud dealer in SA that does a good job but he's not a service company he's an install company and does 10-15 change outs a day. I can't recall the guys name. Buzz baby? Had the best reply yet. You need to have a manual J done to properly size your equipment and a manual d to properly size your ducts and a competent installer to make it all go together. Don't fall for the SEER trap, I know several companies that sell SEER rating as a end all be all but don't even have a clue how to determine actual SEER. If you have moisture problems it's likely your unit is OVER SIZED not allowing enough run time to remove the latent heat. Your SEER rating is useless at this point because you're uncomfortable and running the thermostat lower to compensate for the higher humidity effectively pissing away any efficiency gain you might have been able to have.
I guess what I want to tell you is yes Rheem/Ruud is a good brand, quit looking at price and look at competence, reputation, service, referrals and do as you did here and ask questions. Don't fall for Chuck in a Truck that shows up with a clipboard and says he can do it today for $500 less or that his installers may be in the area this week. Find someone that's going to stand behind their work and pay for it. Your AC may be the single largest investment in your house and I'd sure hate to regret saving a few hundred bucks years down the road being uncomfortable or unhappy. Just make sure your Ruud guy is honest, competent and will be there to fix it when it does break. Feel free to ask me anything

Any opinion on Heil? We have a rental unit to install and we have to keep the price down, yet still try to give the tenant something that is dependable & as economical as possible to run.

2.5 ton 14 SEER until with all piping & ductwork, etc. $4800 (gas or electric)

Edit to ask: Should we go gas or electric? Both are available in the attic. Leaning towards gas because we have other gas appliances, but if those units have more trouble in the long run, we can go electric.

So Trane now as a brand called RunTru which only comes in 14 SEER

Basically Trane equipment with a bit less warranty for a decent chunk less.

Pricing Vs. Quality Vs. Dealing with Manufactures etc. It's tough to beat the pricing on RunTru if you're looking for cost savings.

- Trane also warranties their systems out of the box now, not the case with any other we've found. Make it easy for the homeowner years after install when/if needed.

I see the advice that a quality installer is key quite often on here. How do you actually find one? Don't many companies sub that out?

Better read the fine print and exclusion clauses or as I refer to them as the GOT YOU Clauses. I just read the Runtru warranty and it has a lot of exclusions like you pay for the labor, freight on the part, 410 coolant and all cost associated with it. In addition there are a number of the got you clauses that they will try to pull on you as to why they will not honor the warranty. These AC companies need to honor a complete warranty including labor and all associated cost on the product they sell. If the warranty is for 5 years, the company and installer should stand behind it. The manufacture of the unit should pay labor, parts and all other associated cost.

Remember a good unit should last 20 plus years without problems if the install was done right and the unit is maintained by the homeowner. You can still buy dry shipped R22 units and that would be a route to consider.

buddybee said:

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Better read the fine print and exclusion clauses or as I refer to them as the GOT YOU Clauses. I just read the Runtru warranty and it has a lot of exclusions like you pay for the labor, freight on the part, 410 coolant and all cost associated with it. In addition there are a number of the got you clauses that they will try to pull on you as to why they will not honor the warranty. These AC companies need to honor a complete warranty including labor and all associated cost on the product they sell. If the warranty is for 5 years, the company and installer should stand behind it. The manufacture of the unit should pay labor, parts and all other associated cost.

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The factories are not going to cover anything other than the parts they manufacture and it doesn't matter which brand is stamped on the side of the unit. The RunTru warranty is no different....heck..Carrier's warranty makes it sound like they cover the parts but in reality it is a prorated warranty...and there is a $50-75 fee just for the contractor to take the part back to the supply house and swap it out. So when you purchased the unit from Contractor A and then got mad at his service and call Contractor B up to come do warranty work - Contractor B is definitely going to charge you for the work that he is doing....he had nothing to do with the original install.

There are labor warranties that can be purchased that allows any contractor to come out and do the work regardless of who installed the unit originally. But you have to be careful on those because again, the low bid contractor will almost always purchase the labor warranty that covers the cheapest dollar per hour coverage...for example if the normal rate for a contractor is $90 per hour and you call them out to repair your unit under warranty and that company is going to call the labor warranty to verify the details...if the labor warranty company says they reimburse $45 per hour then chances are pretty good you will make up the difference...then the odds are the contractor didn't purchase the labor warranty to cover freon, trip charges, freight etc and you still pay for it because you heard that the "company was throwing in a 10 year labor warranty" and assumed everything was covered.

The parts generally hold up fine if they are installed properly (which the factories have no control over - hence them only covering the parts that they manufactured). The problem is that so many people cut corners during the install to keep their expenses down to lower the price to the homeowner it's not even funny. They don't purge with Nitrogen, they don't flush the lines, the don't pull a proper vacuum, they don't install filter driers, they don't charge the system correctly....I could go on and on and on. Every time you cut a corner your odds of failure increase. You would be surprised at how many times we come into a system that isn't working and find out that the "low bid installer" didn't register the equipment and the warranty is now cut in half. Technically it is the homeowners responsibility but we won't let them do it just in case they forget or don't register everything including the thermostats....I would rather have that burden on my shoulders. We email you a copy of the records when it's completed.

We won't cut corners period even if it means we lose the job because we are more expensive...because the homeowner ultimately pays more for the system in the long run. Jim Wolf Enviromax Services 713-466-7555

buddybee said:

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Remember a good unit should last 20 plus years without problems if the install was done right and the unit is maintained by the homeowner. You can still buy dry shipped R22 units and that would be a route to consider.

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No distributor in Texas is allowed to sell ANY dry charged condensers period...that law went into effect back in 2014-2015 time frame. Every condenser sold is going to have R410 freon in it. Jim Wolf, Enviromax Services, Inc. 713-466-7555

Heil is another Carrier offshoot. It's not a very popular brand in my area as it costs nearly as much as the Carrier. Carrier products aren't bad per se but their parts and warranty fiascos are ridiculous. I cannot stress enough the importance of finding a good contractor. If you find that the rest works itself out typically.

It's difficult. Thanks to healthcare laws and immigration laws and quite frankly crappy business people in the HVAC industry sub contractors are a thing to stay. I say crappy business people because the HVAC industry is extremely seasonal if you could imagine. Very few HVAC guys know how to run companies through the lean times. It's easier to have a subcontractor that you're not obligated to furnish a truck, insurance (all insurances), tools, training, guaranteed hours, cell phone etc to than to have a dedicated crew of employees. In full disclosure I have a sub crew that I use on some of my residential installs but I pay them very well and i personally verify all of their work and they respect me enough they do it my way on my jobs. I provide them the nitrogen, the regulators, the flush, the micron gauge, etc and they have never failed to do it my way once yet. I have the sub crew because at times I get overwhelmed with work and I don't think it's good business to make customers wait weeks to get a new AC. My best advice would be ask them for a list of references that would be willing to let you see their work. That'll tell you real quick who's good and who's not simply by who's even willing to provide that. If they won't do that I'd be leery. Hope that helps

These must also be the same as the OxBox brand units by Trane. 100% Chinese made units shipped over here with 10yr part warranties that aren't required to be registered and are based solely off the serial. I swear Trane has sold their soul to the devil. The ship is sinking from what I'm seeing. Trane is no longer the brand it once was and you can thank Ingersoll Rand for that.

Edit**** I stand corrected, the RunTru are assembled in Tyler Tx but they don't tell you where the components are from. Builders grade equipment at best.

AgAcGuy12 said:

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These must also be the same as the OxBox brand units by Trane. 100% Chinese made units shipped over here with 10yr part warranties that aren't required to be registered and are based solely off the serial. I swear Trane has sold their soul to the devil. The ship is sinking from what I'm seeing. Trane is no longer the brand it once was and you can thank Ingersoll Rand for that.

Edit**** I stand corrected, the RunTru are assembled in Tyler Tx but they don't tell you where the components are from. Builders grade equipment at best.

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I'm an Aggie, Class of 2012 and I'm in the A/C Business. We could almost have the same user name.


I've been to the factories, our installers have been to the Trane factory , we've dealt with 1000's of HVAC systems now and you're not making much sense on some things.

Overall Most HVAC contractors have never poked their heads inside of factories, which leads to just an incredible about of MisInformation.


- The HVAC industry is a crazy fragmented and large industry with so much cooked up assumptions. We often bid against one to a dozen other hvac contractors it's it's been fascinating to just listen and observe the miscommunications and breakdowns. We offer equipment from several manufactures and overall it often feels like everyone is usually having the wrong arguments / vastly misinformed all the way around.

Manufactures don't want consumers to know X, Vendors only have X and X in mind, homeowner gets A/C System they think should last for 25+ years installed by a sub crew ( composed of who knows) and run on R-22 forever etc.. Very few communicate expectations well in 2020. Industry is a couple decades sluggish

- Old A/C Systems that were 10 SEER 20 years ago are Not 10 SEER anymore and likely have the possibly of something growing in old nasty air ducts ( there is mice poop somewhere around 20 year old systems )

Thanks. Anything specific to look for when looking at a reference's install?

As mentioned earlier in the thread, don't underestimate the comfort factor in having a variable speed unit in areas like Houston. There is some energy savings to offset the cost as your unit will run a lower speeds a decent amount of the run time and it is insane at lowering the humidity. Would I put it in a house I know I was vacating in a few years or my rentals...no....but if it is your primary house for the foreseeable future I would consider it.

EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

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Overall Most HVAC contractors have never poked their heads inside of factories, which leads to just an incredible about of MisInformation.


- The HVAC industry is a crazy fragmented and large industry with so much cooked up assumptions. We often bid against one to a dozen other hvac contractors it's it's been fascinating to just listen and observe the miscommunications and breakdowns. We offer equipment from several manufactures and overall it often feels like everyone is usually having the wrong arguments / vastly misinformed all the way around.

Manufactures don't want consumers to know X, Vendors only have X and X in mind, homeowner gets A/C System they think should last for 25+ years installed by a sub crew ( composed of who knows) and run on R-22 forever etc.. Very few communicate expectations well in 2020. Industry is a couple decades sluggish

- Old A/C Systems that were 10 SEER 20 years ago are Not 10 SEER anymore and likely have the possibly of something growing in old nasty air ducts ( there is mice poop somewhere around 20 year old systems )

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https://ecozapphvac.com/arctic-blast-demo-air-conditioning-units-college-station

Can you tell me about this? I have a 12 year old American Standard unit that is still decent, but in July/August it struggles in the afternoon and runs a lot. Bills never get very big because my house is only 1800 sqft and has new ducts/returns.

air coming out of the ducts isnt terribly cool, i think ~64 degrees.

Foresight: This kind of opens a can of worms on here that might may this thread hit 10k views.

Overall If we send an A/C Tech out to your home to Tune-Up your system, and pending no major issues; Arctic Blast is a service / product we offer that helps increase the efficiency on A/C Systems and some benefits varies depending on the system / wear & Tear. But over-all usually on R-22 Systems it makes the compressor a bit quieter/ run less hard, can make the air a bit cold/ less humid, and not make the system run so hard during the summer ( Heat Pumps during winter). The older and worse SEER Rating IRL the better the product works

The video on the web page ( linked above ) on the right shows a system starting at ~58 F and getting down to ~52F.

Pending no air flow issue or other, a ~6*F split can occur. But after a nice tune-up and cleaning this is about the next best bet to make system run more efficiently .

Before spending money on magic fixes, get a good ac company to come to your home. Have them make sure the unit is sized properly and do a manual J check. Also have them make sure the system is balanced and it is important that you have enough air returns in the home. One major problem with the 410A units is with the higher pressure the air is blowing over the coils to fast. Make sure you have the proper tempt. drop across the coils and the fan is blowing at the proper speed. Too fast and you will get that muggy feeling in your home.

Important note - if your system is ~15 to 20 years old, throw the manual J out the window, unless you plan on replacing. Doing anything to beef the efficiency is a good thing.

SEER rating has diminished far too much. I walk by old nasty A/C systems every day and take pictures of how bad many most are. ~95% look disgusting enough you wouldn't want to eat off your coils, but it's the air you breath and it's the SEER rating diminished.

When is the last time your system was actually serviced by a competent company? Some claim to do tune ups or maintenance for a reduced price and it's not much more than a chance to sell you something and you paid them for the privilege of doing so. A true maintenance check will inspect their indoor coil and fan, look over the duct system for obvious leakage (not sizing), blow the drain lines out, check refrigerant levels (not psi, superheat and subcool dependent on the metering device type), check the microfarads of the capacitors, check the contactors points, check amp load and starting abilities and lastly fully wash the condenser until the coil flushes clean. That last one is the most time consuming and rarely done right. I'd bet your system has a filthy condenser coil and is likely low on refrigerant due to my experience with that vintage of system, and I have a lot of experience with that vintage/brand.

Your temperature drop across the coil is a piss poor way of gauging your systems health and quite frankly is extremely easy to manipulate. Never trust anyone that uses the delta as more than a reference point. I promise you for $100 I can get you a 5degree improvement on your delta and it won't solve your issues. "15 degree delta and your units working great!" I've heard that my entire life. I can assure you I've seen plenty of units with amazing deltas that weren't keeping their owners happy.
Your air conditioner is a system. It's not just a coil and a condenser. SEER is a meaningless buzzword made up by the government to make you think you're getting something better. Some claim that SEER degrades over time but they have no way of actually proving it. For example: You bought a 12 SEER in 2003 thinking it was a middle of the road unit, the sticker said 12 SEER, the invoice said 12 SEER and you thought you got a 12 SEER. The problem is that unit is a 12 SEER IN A LABORATORY!!!!! I bet that bad boy wasn't a 10 SEER the day you first turned it on. What is a SEER anyway? Can you show me one? Can you prove to me with documentation that a snake oil actually improves my SEER rating? No. I can assure you if a manufacturer could gain a few SEER points by adding an additive it would come standard. Buyer beware, you're not getting what you think you are. I'd be glad to help you with your issues once it warms up, it's too cold right now to properly service any air conditioner.
AgAcGuy12

Check all the little things. What's their attention to detail? Did they replace the copper line insulation, the electrical whip, pad, does it have the correct size breaker for the unit, did they get a permit with the city, is it level, is the entire unit in an overflow pan, did they just patch the duct work to make it fit, is it taped well and have mastic on the seams, does the drain run down hill, did they pick up their trash in the attic, are there float switches? These are a few simple things you should be able to spot. A more experienced eye would be required to verify they pulled a proper vacuum, charged the refrigerant to the proper levels and that the system is sized correctly and is a matched set. Hope this helps. I'll try and learn how to post pictures in the next few days and see if I can't shed a little more light on the subject.