I am going to put a gas dryer in my laundry room, so I for sure have to run a gas line. I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to spend the extra $100 or so to have a 240v outlet run for an electric dryer as well. We plan to rent the house out at some point in the future, so part of me thinks it would be good to have flexibility, but the other part says why spend the money for something I will not use for the foreseeable future.

For $100 I would do it.

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For $100 I would do it.

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+1

Can your existing service handle the additional load ?

Ain't no renter gonna have a gas dryer.

you are worried about spending $100 and then forcing a renter to have to potentially buy a gas dryer. I don't think most people have gas dryers and no renter is going to buy one knowing they have to get rid of it when they move out. Seems to me you would be excluding a lot of potential renters by just having gas.

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Ain't no renter gonna have a gas dryer.

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Since you showed up, what is the best way to determine if my service can handle the addition?

I have 150A service. I've got 14 poles used. 4 are the HVAC heat, 2 are the AC compressor and the other 8 are single pole 20A circuits for lights, receptacles, etc. The dryer would add a 30A double-pole circuit.

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you are worried about spending $100 and then forcing a renter to have to potentially buy a gas dryer. I don't think most people have gas dryers and no renter is going to buy one knowing they have to get rid of it when they move out. Seems to me you would be excluding a lot of potential renters by just having gas.

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We have considered just providing the appliances as an amenity when we reach that point, so that is definitely something to think about.

food for thought, RTT. my appliance guy convinced me to go with an electric dryer over a gas dryer. i was heavily leaning gas, since we have gas connections and a gas stove. his argument was no one really knows how to work on gas dryers these days if they break down.

again, this is coming from a guy who sells and services appliances, so there is potential for bias.

either way, i'd spend the extra money and put in the electric line.

i forgot to add that the guy wasn't trying to make an expensive sale, since we went with a run of the mill Speed Queen (with mechanical controls).

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Ain't no renter gonna have a gas dryer.

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Since you showed up, what is the best way to determine if my service can handle the addition?

I have 150A service. I've got 14 poles used. 4 are the HVAC heat, 2 are the AC compressor and the other 8 are single pole 20A circuits for lights, receptacles, etc. The dryer would add a 30A double-pole circuit.

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gas stove right?
Only electric heat?
square footage of the house?
tonnage of AC?

Off the cuff,

2500 sqft x 3 = 7500
2x 1500 small app =3000
laundry 1500

Total 12000

100% x 3000 + 35% x (12000-3000) = 6150

5 ton ac ~ 7500 (skip this, electric heat should be bigger)
electric heat... carry the four, add a niner, round up, call it 15000
new electric dryer 7200
dishwasher 1500
assuming gas stove/oven.

totals 29850 or 124A.

If I'm anywhere close in the above, you should be okay. If I missed, post the CB sizes and we'll figure it out. You're also going to want to verify the wire size feeding your panel.

gas stove right?
- Gas with 120v "even heating" element in oven

Only electric heat?
- Yes, electric heat, but we also have a gas heater in the living room

square footage of the house?
- 1,077

tonnage of AC?
- 3.5

Appliances in the kitchen include the refrigerator, 900w microwave, range hood, dishwasher, disposal, and occasional use of a toaster oven.

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gas stove right?
- Gas with 120v "even heating" element in oven

Only electric heat?
- Yes, electric heat, but we also have a gas heater in the living room

square footage of the house?
- 1,077

tonnage of AC?
- 3.5

Appliances in the kitchen include the refrigerator, 900w microwave, range hood, dishwasher, disposal, and occasional use of a toaster oven.

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1100 sqft x 3 = 3300
2x 1500 small app =3000
laundry 1500

Total 7800

100% x 3000 + 35% x (7800-3000) = 4680

5 ton ac ~ 7500 (skip this, electric heat should be bigger)
electric heat... carry the four, add a niner, round up, call it 12000
new electric dryer 7200
reefer 1000
microwave 900
hood 1000
dishwasher 1500
disposal 1500
super duper look at me I'm Eric Riper with my neato oven 1800

totals 31580 or 132A.

Still should check the wire to make sure you have at least a #1 copper or 2/0 AL. I am not your attorney, this is not legal advice, some assembly required, on approved credit plus TT&L, no purchase necessary, paid for by bogus mesothelioma claims at the law offices of James Sokolove.

I officially need a beer or three.

Hey you Houston peeps, where's a good place to eat anywhere on the road between Jersey Village and Minute Maid Park? Good fat guy/beer food. Like Hubcab Grill without the wait. Part B is where's a good place for a beer after the game?

the above also assumes you don't run the ac and heater at the same time.

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the above also assumes you don't run the ac and heater at the same time.

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I did try to run the fridge, dishwasher, oven, microwave, and a toaster oven all at the same time, once. I was not successful.

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the above also assumes you don't run the ac and heater at the same time.

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I did try to run the fridge, dishwasher, oven, microwave, and a toaster oven all at the same time, once. I was not successful.

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Umm, what tripped?

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gas stove right?
- Gas with 120v "even heating" element in oven

Only electric heat?
- Yes, electric heat, but we also have a gas heater in the living room

square footage of the house?
- 1,077

tonnage of AC?
- 3.5

Appliances in the kitchen include the refrigerator, 900w microwave, range hood, dishwasher, disposal, and occasional use of a toaster oven.

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1100 sqft x 3 = 3300
2x 1500 small app =3000
laundry 1500

Total 7800

100% x 3000 + 35% x (7800-3000) = 4680

5 ton ac ~ 7500 (skip this, electric heat should be bigger)
electric heat... carry the four, add a niner, round up, call it 12000
new electric dryer 7200
reefer 1000
microwave 900
hood 1000
dishwasher 1500
disposal 1500
super duper look at me I'm Eric Riper with my neato oven 1800

totals 31580 or 132A.

Still should check the wire to make sure you have at least a #1 copper or 2/0 AL. I am not your attorney, this is not legal advice, some assembly required, on approved credit plus TT&L, no purchase necessary, paid for by bogus mesothelioma claims at the law offices of James Sokolove.

I officially need a beer or three.

Hey you Houston peeps, where's a good place to eat anywhere on the road between Jersey Village and Minute Maid Park? Good fat guy/beer food. Like Hubcab Grill without the wait. Part B is where's a good place for a beer after the game?

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Does the 80% continuous rule not apply to the main ?

No. The above is the feeder calc for a dwelling unit per 220, same as the examples in Appendix D. Dwelling units are a little different.

If it were not a dwelling unit, the only continuous load is the lighting. Take 125% of the lighting, add the noncontinuous loads, and you can run up to the OCPD rating. The only difference between 80% and 100% breakers is where you do the math..

Disregard the OB sig

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Umm, what tripped?

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A 20A breaker. All the kitchen receptacles are on one 20A breaker.

DEATH TRAP!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH1!!!011!!

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DEATH TRAP!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH1!!!011!!

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Any recommendations?

When I bought the house it was still knob & tube, and other than AC and heat, there were only two circuits - one for each half of the house. The microwave is going to go in the new pantry, which will be on a separate circuit.

We're at Watson's, I-10 and 6. Buy the next round of car bombs and I'll fix it for you**








** 5 minute time limit

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No. The above is the feeder calc for a dwelling unit per 220, same as the examples in Appendix D. Dwelling units are a little different.

If it were not a dwelling unit, the only continuous load is the lighting. Take 125% of the lighting, add the noncontinuous loads, and you can run up to the OCPD rating. The only difference between 80% and 100% breakers is where you do the math..

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Thanks for your explanation.

What is the NEC definition of continuous load ?
So an over or dryer that could run over 1 hour straight is always excluded?

What about dishwashers and microwaves when wiring a 20 amp circuit ?

microwave should be on separate 20A circuit
refrigerator should be on separate 20A circuit
dishwasher should be on separate 20A circuit
dryer should be on separate circuit - 30A or 50A - check service manual - call Lowes or Home Depot
Then, other countertop appliances on single 20A circuit should be OK
150A total is not much for a modern loaded home of today - sounds like pre A/C vintage? (1950's construction?)
200A is better as a basic

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No. The above is the feeder calc for a dwelling unit per 220, same as the examples in Appendix D. Dwelling units are a little different.

If it were not a dwelling unit, the only continuous load is the lighting. Take 125% of the lighting, add the noncontinuous loads, and you can run up to the OCPD rating. The only difference between 80% and 100% breakers is where you do the math..

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Thanks for your explanation.

What is the NEC definition of continuous load ?
So an over or dryer that could run over 1 hour straight is always excluded?

What about dishwashers and microwaves when wiring a 20 amp circuit ?

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Continuous = 3 hours or more but uninterrupted. Oven/range/etc will cycle on and off. When you do apartments, you actually take a reduced amount of all the ovens because they don't operate all at once and they cycle. Kitchens are required to have two separate "small appliance branch circuits" to handle the toasters, coffee maker, blender, etc. Anything larger than that like a bigger microwave or dishwasher gets circuited based on its nameplate load but generally on its own circuit. SA has a code amendment that dishwashers and disposals get their own circuit no matter what.

To fix RTTs issue, separate the fridge and add a second circuit for the kitchen, alternating receptacles.

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150A total is not much for a modern loaded home of today - sounds like pre A/C vintage? (1950's construction?)
200A is better as a basic

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Its 1100 sqft and has gas.

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microwave should be on separate 20A circuit
refrigerator should be on separate 20A circuit
dishwasher should be on separate 20A circuit
dryer should be on separate circuit - 30A or 50A - check service manual - call Lowes or Home Depot
Then, other countertop appliances on single 20A circuit should be OK
150A total is not much for a modern loaded home of today - sounds like pre A/C vintage? (1950's construction?)
200A is better as a basic

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Try 1935 construction...IIRC, Ryan mentioned on his other thread where he's renovating the Pantry/Laundry room that the house is 80 years old!

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microwave should be on separate 20A circuit
refrigerator should be on separate 20A circuit
dishwasher should be on separate 20A circuit
dryer should be on separate circuit - 30A or 50A - check service manual - call Lowes or Home Depot
Then, other countertop appliances on single 20A circuit should be OK
150A total is not much for a modern loaded home of today - sounds like pre A/C vintage? (1950's construction?)
200A is better as a basic

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My friend just bought a ~4000A sqft house that has a 150A service. "Modern" stuff doesn't really use that much power...

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To fix RTTs issue, separate the fridge and add a second circuit for the kitchen, alternating receptacles.

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Thanks for the advice. That should be easy to do since every receptacle is dropped individually from a junction box. I had a total of 8 circuits when I bought the place. I now have 14. The only problem I've come across so far is the conduits to the panel are getting crowded. Getting two more lines in might be tough. I need to replace my big junction box on the back of the house, so I might add a larger conduit when I do that.

Oh, I also dicovered last night that the supply to the AC compressor is spliced with wire nuts that are neither taped nor in a box.

You don't really tape wire nuts as far as I know... But they should be in a box.

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You don't really tape wire nuts as far as I know... But they should be in a box.

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Some prefer to tape them in situations where vibration could be present. I've seen it often in ceiling fan boxes especially if it is crowded.

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The only problem I've come across so far is the conduits to the panel are getting crowded. Getting two more lines in might be tough. I need to replace my big junction box on the back of the house, so I might add a larger conduit when I do that.

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Are you pulling/fishing single conductors or Romex thru the pipe and j-box?

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The only problem I've come across so far is the conduits to the panel are getting crowded. Getting two more lines in might be tough. I need to replace my big junction box on the back of the house, so I might add a larger conduit when I do that.

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Are you pulling/fishing single conductors or Romex thru the pipe and j-box?

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Romex into the J Box; 50/50 through the pipe to the panel.

Exterior box, pipe and panel, right? This is gonna sound stupid, but the inside of an exterior conduit, by definition, is also considered a wet location.

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300.9 Raceways in Wet Locations Abovegrade. Where raceways are installed in wet locations abovegrade, the interior of these raceways shall be considered to be a wet location.

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Can't use Romex in a wet location.

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(B) Types NM and NMS. Types NM and NMS cables shall not be used under the following conditions or in the following locations:
(I) Where exposed to corrosive fumes or vapors
(2) Where embedded in masonry, concrete, adobe, fill, or plaster
(3) In a shallow chase in masonry, concrete, or adobe and covered with plaster, adobe, or similar finish
(4) In wet or damp locations

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