I'm looking to open things up a bit by expanding a doorway. Ideally I'd like to take out 4 2x4s to have that plus the existing doorway open.

A handyman gave me a higher than expected quote and said I needed a manufactured LVL board or something like that. I'm not a structural engineer (just a mechanical one) buy that seems overkill to me. The segment is small compared to the overall length of the wall, and it's just an open attic above the area.

Long story short, I came across these span tables but can't figure out how to read them. Does anyone know how or can you share any guidance or experience with this sort of project? I was hoping to hire it out and will get additional quotes, but I want to be an educated consumer. Any recs on people in DFW would be great too!

Here are the tables: http://www.awc.org/technical/spantables/index.php

Can I just put two 2x10s or something together? Just looking for guidance and thoughts if you've done something like this. Thanks!

[This message has been edited by Agattack (edited 7/5/2014 11:04p).]

The span table you linked is for joists and rafters. You need a header table. There are good header tables in THIS PUBLICATION from Southern Pine.

There are a lot of details missing here. For starters, how wide do you want the opening to be when you are done? Is the house one or two stories?

Assuming you have a 32" interior doorway and want to pull four studs, I'm guessing you want an opening of about 8', is that correct? Under a lot of normal circumstances, you would probably be okay (or better) with a couple of laminated 2X12s with two jack studs on each end. However, I could be wrong because I am not familiar with your site conditions.

I am not an engineer, and this is not engineering advice.

Thanks RTT. I promise I won't hold anyone liable for engineering advice on texags, just want to have a more educated conversation with the contractors. Sounds like you've maybe done this before, how did it go?

Can you post some pics of this doorway ?

1 or 2 story ?

Do you know if the ceiling joists run parallel with the existing opening or perpendicular ?

How wide will the new opening be?

Which section of those tables should I look at? It's an interior wall. The joists run perpendicular to it. It's a one story house with open attic above.

Here's a picture, sorry if large, posting from my phone. I'm hoping to remove 4 studs. The backs of the cabinets you see are where I would stop. Thanks for your guidance and thoughts! Again I promise I'm not taking anything posted here as official engineering anything, just want to understand.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b15q1y97hzyiq44/IMG_20140707_001539.jpg

[This message has been edited by Agattack (edited 7/7/2014 12:22a).]

[This message has been edited by Agattack (edited 7/7/2014 12:50a).]

Is the kitchen ceiling lower or is that just a fur down where upper cabinets were once mounted ?


With that span you should be fine making a header out of 2 2 x12's and 1/2 inch plywood in between with the header shoved all the way to the 2x4 plate and 2 trimmer studs on each side underneath to support the header. What I can't tell from your picture is if there is a large beam resting above on the top plate anywhere where the new opening will be. If there is then there is a chance it may need to be a laminated header on the new opening. Either way you will still have to temporarily support the existing ceiling joists in both rooms and and roof bracing on the plate above before any framing can be removed and the new header installed.

I've always been told to treat an interior load-bearing wall like an exterior wall, so tables 1-6, depending on your situation. I've never had to deal with snow, so I would normally use tables 5 and 6.

JP76 is right, and who cares if it's a little over-engineered - stronger is better than weaker. I tend to over-engineer things pretty regularly.

Thanks JP and RTT, I appreciate your help.

I'll double-check there's nothing else resting on the joists where the header would go. I don't recall seeing anything when I was crawling the attic. Yes, that is an old-school fur down you're seeing through the wall I'm planning on taking out as well.

I'm all for over-engineering a little too. One contractor said I needed a special order engineered beam which seemed excessive to me. This gives me more confidence talking to them and asking questions, thanks!

If you have to order a lam beam, order a standard one for a garage door (single or double), then cut it to size. There will usually be a significant cost savings compared to custom.

Just to give you an idea on the cost of Laminated Veneer Lumber (LVL), I can get a 20' LVL (1-3/4" x 11-7/8") at my local Sherman, TX Home Depot for $74.87 plus tax.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-1-3-4-in-x-11-7-8-in-x-20-ft-Southern-Pine-Laminated-Veneer-Lumber-2100150/205301927

Hopefully, that will give you some idea what they can cost so you have some ammo if the quotes are excessive for the quoted LVL.

Agree with E-TownAG, get a standard length LVL and cut into 2 pieces to fit your spanned length.

[This message has been edited by Gary79Ag (edited 7/7/2014 2:48p).]

"One contractor said I needed a special order engineered beam"

Did they say why ?

There is no way that is needed unless there is another beam sitting above that plate that is carrying a huge load.

Can you post a attic picture showing the joist layout and any ridge, hip, or purlin braces that are running to the top plate above where you plan on this opening being ?


What part of DFW are you in ?

JP, according to his profile, he's in Philadelphia.

I work in Fort Worth. My email is in my profile. I'd be glad to come take a look at what you have and give you my opinion.

Thanks guys. I'll post some more pics from the attic.

I just purchased this home in Lake Highlands. I moved from Philadelphia a few weeks ago, need to update my profile.

Agineer, I appreciate the offer. I have a buddy here in Dallas that's a structural engineer that's going to take a look.

Good to know LVL isn't expensive either. The way the first contractor talked it up I was dreading paying for it. I'm not sure why I didn't go check myself.

Appreciate everyone's thoughts!

Thought I would post the results!



After pulling out the fur down and really looking at everything from the attic, it turns out only the portion of the ceiling over the kitchen was being supported by that wall. That gave me much more confidence in just getting it done. I had a handyman and a friend come help me and we knocked it out. Went with 2 2x10s and two 4x4s as the jack studs. Everything is holding up fine. Thanks for all your thoughts and helping me save money instead of buying more header beam than I needed.

[This message has been edited by AgAttack (edited 7/9/2014 11:50p).]

Really handy. I was thinking of helping my MIL do something similar.

I am trying to remove a 13' wall and of the two contractors I have called, one failed to send me an estimate, and the other was too pricey.

Using tables 5 and 6 here, to remove my 13' wall where the house is 30' wide it looks like I need a 3-1/2 x 14 glulam beam.


http://www.southernpine.com/app/uploads/SS_1-6L.pdf

Anyone have an idea how much one of these would cost, and what tables I would use to see if two 4x4s would support it?

Interior or exterior wall?
Single or two story ?

That beam would run $200 or less

Interior, single story.

I also am now considering removing 16' of wall instead. As you can see, the 13' wall I want to remove is offset from another wall, I wonder if I can run a beam along the same front to back position as wall C and remove wall A, wall B and the door off wall B in my picture.

Any idea how much it would be to have an engineer come up with a drawing to do this, and make sure my roof doesn't collapse, joists break, or foundation crack?

I am pretty sure my joists meet at that wall, is there a way to move the support for them?

If the joist rest on the wall and you want the beam above the plate line you will have to joist hanger them to the new beam. Do the existing joist run parallel or perpendicular to the wall you want to remove ?

the joists run perpendicular, I will probably not cut the joists and use hangers as that would probably cost way more.

If you look at my pic below, do you think it would be possible (and reasonable cost) to eliminate wall A and B, and put the beam three feet forward of where wall A is now?

I'm sure it is possible but if the joists are resting on wall a and you want to move it south 3 ft then more than likely you will have to replace the joist north of wall a with longer ones. Do you know if there are any beams resting on wall a or b currently ? Anyway you could post a pic of the joist from the attic ?

I'll post some pics after the bball game, after looking at how much a bean would stick down only, ~9' from my front door, I might explore the option of having the beam in the attic with joist hangers.