My uncle and I are going to finally get some power run to my pergola out back. In an effort to save some time, I want to get a list together of some of the things I'll need to get and what is required for outdoor/exposed application. We are adding a dedicated circuit and running from the garage.

Here is an idea of what I want to do:

Fans - Two ceiling fans with separate controls. I haven't decided if they will have lights or not, but if they do, I'd like separate fan/light controls aside from the pull chains and a dimmer switch. I know some fans have various levels of remote controls, but since these will be out in the elements, I'd prefer to have all of this hardwired and sealed.

Lights - The pergola has 6 posts and I'm going to put some sort of light on at least 4 of them, and maybe all of them. Don't think I want to put individual switches and dimmers for each light, but maybe two different zones.

Outlets - I want to put in some outlets, probably a couple up high, but most of them a couple feet off the ground.

Audio - I will be putting some speakers up at a later date and want to have a volume control on one of the posts. The speaker wire has not been run from the house yet and will likely not be part of this project, but any work I can do while we are doing this would be nice (string in the conduit to pull wire, etc).


A few questions I have:

1. Should I run speaker wire in the same conduit as the electrical wires, or would that possibly create a hum in the speakers? I know that "burial grade" speaker wire is required for outdoor use and most is paintable, but I'd really like to keep the look as clean as possible.

2. Is there a requirement for how far off the ground the lower outlets need to be?

3. Would a single circuit alone be enough for this or should I run more than one (I have 5-6 open slots in the breaker box, so thats not an issue).

4. Other than HD or Lowes, any suggestions of a place to buy quality materials at a good price (I'm in Katy).

I would definitely future-proof the install with at least three 20A circuits. Let your fans and installed lighting have one and give the other to the plugs. You might not need the third right away so maybe just stub it out on each end and add the breaker in the future.

As far as the speaker wire, how far is the pergola away from your amplifier? There is significant power loss on long speaker cable runs unless you use very heavy cable. You could consider a 70V amplifier/speaker system as that mitigates distance issues and allows you to have pretty much as many speakers on the amp as you want.

At speaker level, I wouldn't anticipate too much noise to be imparted by the AC but I would still probably not let it share the conduit all the way from the house.

Thanks for the info. Good point on the three circuits. The receiver is on the other side of an exterior wall from one of the posts, but probably a 75' run if I were to follow the current wiring route from the house to garage and out to the pergola. May have to consider drilling through the brick as it may be easier all things considered (no attic space to access wiring in kitchen and breezeway outside, less distance = less resistance, direct connect to main receiver).

Not familiar with the separate amp system. How would that be connected?

[This message has been edited by 1208hawktree (edited 7/8/2012 4:17p).]

Thought a little more about how to get the audio setup and have decided coming from the house will be a huge PITA. So, I am going to put up some sort of cabinet in the garage near where the electrical supply lines will exit and buy an inexpensive receiver/amp to just keep outside permanently. Will cut down on the planning and labor involved, not to mention the 75'+ of speaker wire.

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I would definitely future-proof the install with at least three 20A circuits. Let your fans and installed lighting have one and give the other to the plugs.

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Overkill. Most kitchens are on 2 (or LESS) 20A circuits. How a fan and a few lights would require more than a kitchen that runs all sorts of high load appliances is beyond me.

Run one 20A circuit. That will be more than enough, unless you plan to put in an outdoor electric stove, microwave and a blender AND plan to run them all at the same time.

I ran some power to my pergola thru the breezeway and was able to keep it all up high and you can't see the conduit. All off a 20A circuit I’d added when I first moved in for an extra quad outlet and lights in the garage.

Tapped off one of the new outlets, ran Romex to a switch at the garage side door, then up thru the breezeway to a fan in the breezeway, then to small 90° box at the breezeway eve. Tie romex to 3-wires (IIRC 12ga, black/white/green) out to fan/outlets in conduit on the pergola. You can run outdoor rated wire and leave it exposed, but I thought that would look tacky so I hid the conduit up high. It's much easier (and cheaper) to pull B/W/G thru conduit than romex. Painted the conduit black and it blends in pretty well with the stained pergola.

If you coming from the garage, run the romex to a 90° box outside the garage near the ground, then run your buried cable from the box to below ground thru a short conduit section and 90° bend. Buried cable to hidden space at pergola (90° bend, conduit, then box). Then run conduit up to the top and distribute.

So it would be Circuit/Romex down the wall, cut hole in wall.
90°box outside and tie into buried rated cable
Buried rated cable thru short conduit to below ground and 90° bend below ground
Buried cable to pergola below ground.
Distribute as you see fit.

It's going to be hard to add outlets anywhere but up high and not make them look bad b/c you'll see a bunch of exposed conduit and huge outlet box sticking out from the support legs.

I ended up putting my switch in the garage so I would not have to have it out in the open on the pergola for the fans.

Measure and PLAN everything. Write it down. I “sort of” planned mine out and still had to make two trips back to the store to get stuff. Don’t forget a few conduit supports to hold it in place at the garage wall and on the pergola if you go that route.

[This message has been edited by agracer (edited 7/10/2012 9:51a).]

I was thinking about using large power tools in the future or perhaps a welding machine or a space heater. Wanna have a party with a bounce house or two? Want to have a little band in the back yard with a handful of par lights? An extra clean circuit could have lots of uses.

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I was thinking about using large power tools in the future or perhaps a welding machine or a space heater. Wanna have a party with a bounce house or two? Want to have a little band in the back yard with a handful of par lights? An extra clean circuit could have lots of uses.

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Other than the bouncy house and tool, none of those other things happen in your average back yard (a welder, in the yard, really?). And neither the bouncy house or tool (you can only use one at a time) will overload a 20A circuit. Neither would a a small space heater (and really he'd be better off with the Propane types in lieu of electrical - much more portable).

I can see putting ONE extra (actually not really) but not TWO extra's. If he needs an extra outlet outside, put it at the garage wall and run an extension cord if need be.

[This message has been edited by agracer (edited 7/10/2012 1:00p).]

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Should I run speaker wire in the same conduit as the electrical wires

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That's a no-no.

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Is there a requirement for how far off the ground the lower outlets need to be?

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No, but locate it to where you don't water it with your sprinkler or chew it up with you weedwhacker.

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Would a single circuit alone be enough for this or should I run more than one (I have 5-6 open slots in the breaker box, so thats not an issue).

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You can get by easily with one circuit for lights and fans. However, I've never heard anyone say "I have too many receps." It's your house dude, add what you want. The limiting factor here is what you want to spend. The hassle/PITA factor here is trenching/running conduit to get from the house to the pergola.

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Other than HD or Lowes, any suggestions of a place to buy quality materials at a good price (I'm in Katy).

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For the quantities of material you're using, it's going to be hard to beat the big box stores. For spits and giggles, try

Elliot Electrical Suppy
1722 Primewest Parkway
Katy, TEXAS 77450-0000
(281) 828-2012

As far as quality, just about everyone sells Romex (the brand name for NM cable) or Southwire (individual wires), likewise with Carlon PVC conduit and boxes, and T&B boxes. The circuit breaker(s) will depend on your existing panelboard. One word of caution, I've noticed quite a few builders using Cutler-Hammer load centers in new(er) homes. Nothing wrong with them, except I've yet to find a HD or Lowe's that carries breakers for them. If you've got an older home, it will be a matter of noting the model number of the load center and/or existing circuit breakers to find one that matches. You may have to hit up an electrical supply house. Not all circuit breakers are interchangeable.

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Most kitchens are on 2 (or LESS) 20A circuits

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Kitchen counters are fed by a minimum of two, and these do not include the fridge or disposal circuit. Old homes, YMMV.

If you decide to direct bury the power cable, you are looking for Type UF. HD and Lowe's have it. If it were me, I'd run conduit and pull wire.

Pergola butts right up to the garage, so going to exit the soffit near one of the posts, and take it along the outer edge so it's not seen from the covered areas.

Thanks for all I the info. Huge help.

I ran my romex to this at the soffet


Then 3-wires thru the conduit. Since it's at the soffit, adding a 2nd feed is NBD and you can run 2-feeds in the same conduit until you want to split off the outlets and lights....just make sure you keep the pos and neutrals in the right order

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just make sure you keep the pos and neutrals in the right order

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They should be arranged by height, then birthday. (AC doesn't have a positive).

Chingadera above is an LB conduit body.

You should be fine with a single 20A circuit. The NEC dictates that your expected load should be no greater than 80% of your over current device. So your max normal load should be less than 16A. For 2 fans and 6 lights, you are looking at max of 5A (assuming 60W bulbs). I doubt you are going to run very many things that are going to pull more than 11A.

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The NEC dictates that your expected load should be no greater than 80% of your over current device

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sort of.

Really, finding a way to bring more circuits now, while is is (relatively) easy is its own reward.

Maybe not today, maybe not in the lifetime of the present owners, but, in the life of the house.

A mere 75 years ago, all that was needed was a 10A fuse for the single light in the middle of the kitchen ceiling. A mere fifty years ago, you needed enough amps to run the icebox, the ceiling fixture, and perhaps 2 or 3 outlets for the toaster; and a 3-wire 220 run for the range. A mere 25 years ago, electric dishwashers became common, along with disposals, and you needed outlets every 6' along the counters. Twenty years back kitchens began needing task lighting.

The pergola today might only need a fan or two, and a few lighting fixtures, and some convenience outlets for a boom box or the like. But, what of ten years from now? Or of twenty?

We had some smart and experienced people here. yet, not one suggested running some smurf tube out--even an empty one.

Outdoor kitchens are becoming more common. These are often simply grafted upon existing backyard structures. Concurrent with the outdoor kitchen tends to be provisions for outdoor tv or a/v install.

Could be that consumer outdoor tv are around the corner. Could be one of "us" gets to install such luxury. How much better for use all to have planned ahead and had a conduit out there that would take another 20A circuit; a smurf tube for whatever comes after HDMI . . .

Going to get started on Sunday, weather permitting.

What size Romex, 12 or 14?

Rating of circuit breaker and total distance? Wire length, not straight shot

I would say approx 100' total off 15A breaker. Two or three circuits - going to do one for lights and fans, one for outlets, and one for future use.

Underoos always has solid electrical advice.

http://texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?forum_id=61&topic_id=2117030&page=1&nomobile=1

Kind of a time crunch all of a sudden so looking for input here, as well, if anyone has suggestions.

Between #14 or #12, get #12. Do they have #10 AWG? If so, get that. 100' is really pushing the limit of #12 with any significant load. If you have 15 amps worth of load, you'll probably drop about 5.1 volts along the way over that distance. So if you have 120 at the panel, you'll have 115 at the pergola. Won't matter to an incandescent (will burn ever so slightly dimmer), but may for some loads.

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But, what of ten years from now? Or of twenty?

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Welders and power tools apparently.


Run a 20A circuit GFCI circuit. Put the GFI outlet in the garage then go out to the pergola.

You don't need two conduits. You can run two black/white/gree (pos/neut/ground) feeds thru one 1/2" conduit. Hook them both to the romex feeds at the box when you poke thru the wall/soffet and run them to the next box and split them up if need be.

But why do you want to run two sets of wires (or are you running two breakers?)

One 20A is plenty.

Any suggestions for a weatherproof/watertight ceiling fan box? Haven't found any that state they can be mounted in an open location with direct exposure to the elements.

This is how my neighbor has his installed. Probably have to do something similar.

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Any suggestions for a weatherproof/watertight ceiling fan box? Haven't found any that state they can be mounted in an open location with direct exposure to the elements.

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I know I got one at Home Depot and it's mounted on my Pergola. I did mount it to a 2x10 that fit above two of the joists on the Pergola so the electrical connections are all under that and encased by the box and fan cover.

Here is one (not the one I got). I'm curious as to why you're having so much trouble finding one. I went to HD and they had several indoor/outdoor (porch fans with roof over them) and outdoor (direct exposure to elements) fans.

agracer...No problem finding wet rated fans, just the box.

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Between #14 or #12, get #12. Do they have #10 AWG? If so, get that. 100' is really pushing the limit of #12 with any significant load.

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That. As a very generic rule of thumb, at 120V single phase 100' is about the outer limit of #12.

One option is using 12/3 with ground or 10/3 with ground. It will give you the two hot conductors with a shared neutral and ground. If you are planning on using conduit at the pergula, versus something like UF, use regular wire versus pulling NM thru conduit. It's a pain in the ass to pull.

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Put the GFI outlet in the garage then go out to the pergola.

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In my opinion, you'd be better off putting a GFCI receptacle out at the pergula. With the 100' length, you increase the leakage and can cause preloading.

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Length of circuit. A GFCI is subjected to tests that simulate long branch circuits. While there are no specific rules concerning the length of the circuit protected or the number of receptacles on the protected circuit, remember that the GFCI will add up all the harmless leakage currents and capacitive leakages. Under extreme circumstances, this could "preload" the GFCI and make it appear overly sensitive or, worst case, result in nuisance tripping. Therefore, you should minimize the length of circuits to the degree possible.

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http://ecmweb.com/content/think-gfci

Hawktree, the box in the other thread is a pancake box made for interiors. You are looking for something like this.



It comes with a couple of closure plugs, but you'll probably need a couple more. The other trick is whether you can adequately attach the box to the pergola, and then the fan to the box. I wouldn't rely on just the outer tabs to hold it up. I'd also pookie (silicon, caulk, etc.) all around the box. Also need to see what comes with the fan itself for attaching to the box. You'll also need a rubber gasket between the box and the fan.

That box should also work for attaching the lighting fixture to the columns. HD and Lowe's should have them in white, gray, and sometimes black.

Also remember your receptacle at the pergola need to have while-in-use covers, the big honking plastic things that come down over the whole face.

I put my switch in the garage to avoid having to mount it on the Pergola. If I'd planned far ahead, I could have pre-wired everything and hid it all, but I didn't.

I can't thank all of you enough. Saving me a lot of time and money. I have a feeling my uncle would be laughing his arse off at all of my questions as he is very well versed in this sort of project and probably has it all planned out already - he's just starting a new job so I've been hesitant to bother him with a bunch of this as it comes up. He's not a licensed electrician, but is a very good DIY guy that I always go to first when I have a question.

That said, I took some quick measurements today and 100' was a conservative number. Probably more like 75' or so from the panel to the furthest point, max. Now, of course I have more questions....

Can you paint UF? I was told to get 12G UF, even though we planned on using conduit. If it can be painted, I'd rather not run conduit all over the place if I don't need it. What would be better in the long run, regular wire in conduit, or painted UF (if it's an option)?

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I can't thank all of you enough.

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*COUGH*beer*COUGH*

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Can you paint UF?

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Only maroon.

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I was told to get 12G UF, even though we planned on using conduit

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Pullng Romex thru conduit is a PITA. Pulling UF thru it is worse. When you feel the outside texture, you'll see what I mean. And technically, when you use a cable assembly such as NM or UF in conduit, it needs to be derated.

OK, think we have this wiring and fan thing figured out. Was told by an electrician that i can run UF 12/2 without conduit if i wish.

For the fan, I am going to attach a 2x8" between the joists and recess a 4" round ceiling pan (fan rated) on the underside.

Could not find an outdoor rated pan, but was told that since the fan housing will be covering it and it's a wet-rated fan, I should be OK. This is the pan I bought - PVC rated for fan/light up to 50lbs.

Got the hard part done today with the help of my very generous uncle and his equally generous friend. Both gave up their entire Sunday to help me do this. Got the circuit breakers installed, electric lines run, fans, receptacles, and floodlight for the grill all put in, and it only took three trips to HD and Lowes...They are not licensed electricians, or I'd be recommending their work to anybody who asked. I'd be more than happy with the results if I had hired a professional and ended up with what we did. I'll post some pics when photobucket starts agreeing with me.

Next step is the audio install...

Not a finished product yet, still a lot of touch up to do, but the hard part is done.

Ran 12/2 for receptacles and 12/3 for the fans through the soffit in the garage.



Outlets and floodlight for the grill.



Fans turned out great.

This one had 12/3 in and then back out to the second fan, so we had to compromise on the aesthetics a little. Paint will hide most of this I imagine.




[This message has been edited by 1208hawktree (edited 7/23/2012 10:23a).]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but my questions seemed relevant to the original post and comments.

Unfortunately, I did not have tools or skills to DIY my new side patio so I am paying a contractor to pour a new 16x12 slab and put up a pergola with polygal on top to allow the patio to be used in the rain. I'll be honest in that the original estimate did not have electrical in it and was added as a last minute, "Hey, sure would be nice to have a ceiling fan and lights out there." kind of thing for an extra $750 to add an outlet at the top of pergola and hang an outdoor ceiling fan that we went out and bought a day later.

There have been a couple missteps and/or modifications to the original plan as the project has gone on that has me feeling like I need to stay on top of the contractor more than I expected to...

The slab was poured last week with the wiring run in grey PVC conduit (3/4in?) from an existing GFCI outlet on the exterior brick wall next to the patio door, under the slab, and then out of conduit in the location of one of the planned posts. The pergola went up this week and 'some' of the electrical was completed today.

As noted, the wiring comes out of the slab at the pergola post in conduit, goes to an outdoor rated switch (like this) and then continues up the post to header board. I'm good up to this point (but please let me know of any gotchas). At the header board, there is a small 90 degree conduit and then the bare wire comes out and is installed in what looks like an indoor outlet (blue plastic box with a normal indoor type faceplate). The outlets are facing down and the back of the junction box is basically exposed (although will be covered eventually by the polygal).

I have already indicated that I want the outlet box to be outdoor rated and enclosed as well as recessed a bit further than it currently is so it cannot be seen from inside the house. I was told it was not necessary because of the polygal roof but he indicated it was no problem to fix it tomorrow. However, I now see that bare wire is running from junction box to the middle of pergola for the ceiling fan (stapled to one of the rafters). It is not entirely clear to me yet how they plan to support the ceiling fan or terminate the wiring...

Does the wiring all the way to the ceiling fan need to be run in conduit? Do I actually need outdoor type junction boxes at the outlet and ceiling fan since the polygal is expected to keep any water out?

I'm open to any sort of ridicule, advice, and/or suggestions.