Junior golf psychology question here-

1,753 Views | 17 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by Ag_07
EliteElectric
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Our 12yo daughter is a 5 hcp (from her tees) and is the current STPGA summer points champion. She played in 17 summer tourneys and won 9 of those 17 starts. We get to the STPGA summer championship tourney and she shoots a +11 on day one and is 12th. Day 2 she totally unravels and shoots a +17 to drop all the way to 17th. She's embarrassed, devastated and really down on herself right now.

My advice to her is just flush it, go back to work and treat it like one big bad shot, on to the next tourney. Any advice on how to pull a little girl out of a self loathing spiral or just let it go and let her "grieve" on her own?
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Matsui
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AG
evestor1
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I usually have a few millers on the course and play from a different tee box next time after a bad round. Extra golf is meant to be fun.


Obviously that will not work - so maybe do something fun centered around golf or not!
Enrico Pallazzo
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I have 2 daughters who were very competitive in other sports. I also coached girls fastpitch softball for nearly 10 years. My advice is that girls are different and you mostly just have to let them work thru it. Know they have your love and confidence, but you can't fix it and going overboard to boost just makes it more of a thing. So act as you would had she won, had she finished mid-pack, or had she finished DFL. Life just goes on and they'll find a way. A competitor is resilient and they either have that or they don't.
I Am A Critic
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One shot at a time. One round at a time. One tournament at a time. Don't let the last one affect the next one.
Username checks out.
EliteElectric
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I Am A Critic said:

One shot at a time. One round at a time. One tournament at a time. Don't let the last one affect the next one.

Easier for an adult to grasp that, harder for a preteen girl. Our mantra on course is "next shot" but coming in as one of the favorites, and laying an egg seems to be really getting to her.


I think I am just going to leave her be until when and if she wants to discuss. I told her I love her and didn't care if she were to finish dead last she still would be considered one of the best in the State. That's about all I got right now.

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_lefraud_
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AG
Just show her clips like this

Golf is hard, **** happens

One day doesn't define us, on or off the golf course

AgLA06
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AG
EliteElectric said:

Our 12yo daughter is a 5 hcp (from her tees) and is the current STPGA summer points champion. She played in 17 summer tourneys and won 9 of those 17 starts. We get to the STPGA summer championship tourney and she shoots a +11 on day one and is 12th. Day 2 she totally unravels and shoots a +17 to drop all the way to 17th. She's embarrassed, devastated and really down on herself right now.

My advice to her is just flush it, go back to work and treat it like one big bad shot, on to the next tourney. Any advice on how to pull a little girl out of a self loathing spiral or just let it go and let her "grieve" on her own?


My daughter is about the same age, but is playing a mix of junior tour, DCP, and Junior League Allstars this summer instead of just focusin on tournaments. We've met a couple times in the last 9 months at various STPGA events. We talked at the garage sale.

I won't tell you what to do, but how we've had to change our thought process in how to play and when to play and remind ourselves why we're playing golf. After doing some reflection and having conversations with our daughter, we came to a new reality. It isn't about making championships or chasing points, it's about maximizing her development and getting better at golf. No one (high school, college, etc.) cares about little linksters or junior tour or any similar thing. College coaches have said so. It isn't going to factor in her future recruitment if she chooses to go that route. And burning her out before achieving goals is the worst possible thing.

Playing too often and focusing on points instead of maximizing development just exchanges short term success at the expense of long-term growth. So, we focus instead of setting fixed number of tournaments, at a fixed interval throughout a season that keeps her game steady and allows for practice and growth and just importantly the rest of being a kid. For us that's about 8 tournaments a season and only playing them every other week. If she doesn't qualify for the championship on 8-10 starts, she isn't going to compete to win anyway. For my daughter going to a championship and not having a chance to be in the mix to win does more harm with her confidence than good.

We're also focusing on good, efficient practice that translates to the course. Talking through how chipping practice specifically translates to the course (chipping target represents the spot on the green to land the ball for it to roll out to the flag, not just a game). Ensuring targets are similar distances and sizes of shots needed in tournaments. Same set up and pre shot routine ever shot. Putts are about tempo and finishing 18" past the hole, not just making them or not. We're not chasing distance off the tee or from our irons. We're working to be more consistent in hitting fairways and greens with small shot dispersion and what success looks like. 10 yards back, but middle of the fairway beats 10 yards further in the crap every time.

To be honest, we have lots of little conversations about course management and smart golf. Taking a couple seconds to mourn or celebrate the last shot and then refocus on the next. Good shots every time are better overall than hero shots and chasing scores and mistakes. The biggest change is talking about effort doesn't mean success. We don't want to hit 50 or 75 shots a practice in the simulator and get soar. We want to focus, go through the process, and hit 25 good quality shots 3-4 times a week and move on. We focus more on swing plane, solid contact, and ball flight than hitting it 5 yards further.

Ultimately, maturity plays in. At the end of the day, they are kids and this is supposed to be both rewarding and fun. And find ways to turn the negatives and mistakes into life lessons and growth over small conversations a couple days later. My daughter puts too much pressure on herself. Lots of little conversations relating to chasing perfect gets in the way of good / great and success. It's taken a year of this new outlook on golf, but her mindset is growing more and more every month. And her scores and handicap are dropping accordingly and her confidence is growing.
AgLA06
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AG
EliteElectric said:

I Am A Critic said:

One shot at a time. One round at a time. One tournament at a time. Don't let the last one affect the next one.

Easier for an adult to grasp that, harder for a preteen girl. Our mantra on course is "next shot" but coming in as one of the favorites, and laying an egg seems to be really getting to her.


I think I am just going to leave her be until when and if she wants to discuss. I told her I love her and didn't care if she were to finish dead last she still would be considered one of the best in the State. That's about all I got right now.



My biggest mistake in coaching my daughter is forgetting she's a kid. Just because we say something over and over doesn't mean she really understands it. I've had to focus on asking what she thinks things mean and giving her real-life examples outside of golf. She's 11, she wants to please. She'd rather say yes sir instead of admitting she doesn't' really get it or what it's supposed to actually mean. Lots of little low key conversations on walks or driving around town have done wonders outside of practice.

My word of caution is instead of looking at points for meaning, focus on things less subjective (handicap index, average strokes per round, best low score). Playing more tournaments with less kids and having a higher point total doesn't mean a kid is the best golfer. In our experience the ones that are the best play in the deep fields and have the lowest average strokes per round and lowest handicaps. My daughter now understands it doesn't matter how many tournaments you win or how many points you have, it matters how you actually compare as a golfer and where she is in her game and journey. Junior golf is about driving revenue to keep the tournaments going. Convincing kids and parents more points from more tournaments played is the priority is the scheme that drives revenue, not development.

A kid with 4,000 points and an average of 45 strokes per 9 holes isn't better than a kid with 1,000 points and an average score of 40 in 9 holes. And in a 2 day tournament they're going to be facing a 5 shot score difference (or greater) on average every 9 holes. That tends to really show through in the championships that are also on harder courses. The number 10 or 15 kid in Houston or Dallas is probably going to hold their own against the #1 or #2 in points leader in smaller areas as tend to they play against better competition, on harder courses, against deeper fields more often. Their average tournament competition is similar to a kid out of The Valley or Tyler playing in the season championship.
KentuckyAg2
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AG
Wife's a college golf coach..she'd say do something fun with her around golf. She's too young to have a bad round ruin a day(s)…easier said than done, but she's got alot of golf ahead of her.

From a pure golf perspective, play up a 1,000 yards to get her going low (having fun) and it teaches her how to score too!
EliteElectric
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Allow me to clarify a little (sorry been super busy at work since I took 3 weekdays off for this tourney)-

I have been "off the bag" for over a year, she has decided to move up early and began practicing for that so I was fired as caddy. To be clear her original goal was not to be points champ, but, just to get ahead of the other "good" girl in BCS or finish top 5 so she could make the championship (BCS is only allowed 1). The goal was always to make the championship. However once we played in 8 tourneys or so she found herself in the lead. We went to Houston for 3 and she won all three and then decided "hey daddy, I could be the points champ if we enter in xxx tourneys" and so I allowed it.

Her disappointment was that she did poorly at the summer championship, which was going to be her last 9 hole event, not that she had expectations as the points winner. We stayed at the resort and we allowed her to stay out at the waterpark until 9:30 every night and looking back I think that was a bad decision on our part as parents.

She'll soon be playing 18 hole events with the older girls, she has plenty of length so I think we'll be ok with the move back in yardage, I just wish she wouldn't get so down on herself when she plays poorly.

***ETA***
Her and her friend the other "good" girl from BCS were the only 9 hole participants caddying for themselves.
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CapCity12thMan
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AG
HS coach here...my thoughts:

1) golf is hard, bad rounds happen. It's normal.
2) This event is likely gonna teach her more than the 9 victories, so the success from this one comes in the form of learning. Not all successes have trophies. She has to identify what she learned so this is less likely to happen next time.
3) If you had sat down in March of this year and said "you will win 9 of 18 events this summer" - she probably would have been ecstatic. One bad shot does not ruin a round, nor does one bad event ruin a season.
Fdsa
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We've met and talked before. My little one just moved up to 13-14. A little different and a bit lonely sometimes with no caddy.

We had a similar tough experience a few years back at that same event. A few things I told her afterwards:

-there is a really good chance that the best girl in Texas when you are 18 has not even started playing golf yet at your age. Success at 12 means nothing. What you can gain is all the 'feelings' of a big event and you were able to feel that this week. These are good things to experience. You still have so much growing to do physically - let's not worry about results right now.

-nine hole events are not always a good indicator of real golf ability. Anything can happen in 9 or 18. 36 or more is a better indicator of who you are that week as a player. Don't get too up or down over a poor nine holes. STPGA does a great job of making that event feel HUGE…fun environment, but the disappointment is heavy with a tough day.

-hydration, nutrition are all learned the hard way at some point and those are good things to talk about. We also did a long pool day down there!

Junior golf is a marathon. We have made sure to get ours in volleyball and other activities while maintaining her game with shorter fun practices. She only played three tournaments this summer and then did kid summer stuff. She will ramp up more this fall once the weather gets a little better. Summer golf is super tough in Texas. No other sport throws you out in the heat for 4-5 hours.

Lastly, after that summer championship, she took the entire fall off from tournaments and came back better. I've realized consistent on course practice and physical growth are what drive lower scores. Not more competition.


kgtg79
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My grandson is an elite 14 year old golfer. His dad played D1 college golf. He has had similar breakdowns. At the end of the day, my son reminds him that one round of golf does not define him as a person or a player. They're still in the learning phase. Learn to fall in love with the process of getting better. Bad rounds are gonna happen. It's inevitable. Playing golf is not their job. Do they want it to be one day? Sure. Absolutely. But right now isn't the time to treat it as such. Right now is the time to learn to fall in love with being just a little bit better every day. Keep it fun. Keep them motivated. And most of all, remind them no matter if they shoot 68 or 88, that you are just as proud of them.
kgtg79
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I suggest also investing in the book Only One Shot by VJ Trolio.
Matsui
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AG
oneeyedag
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Ive played with some well known players and I am lucky enough to live in Florida and get to play with some really good phenom juniors, D1 and the occasional tour pro, David Carey was the guy i played with in Orlando.

Get used to going low! Play from the very front tees and score; go low and get comfortable managing a round.

The best rounds are the most boring.

Don't watch your opponents driver play, but watch their iron play and putting.

The game has evolved into distance, but accuracy,150 yards and in, and putting still matters.

Get her paired up with a coach who can give on course playing lessons. Someone who can engage her on what her thoughts are, what she is seeing, pre shot routine, pace of play.

She's young as well, good to great golf come with course maturity.

Just a few casual thoughts



Ag_07
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She's 12...Tell her she's going to play a lot of bad, embarrassing rounds throughout her life and send her a link to the F Golf thread as proof.
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