Thought this might be interesting in light of the last two weekends.

If you took an average of all the winning scores on the PGA tour in a calendar year, I am going to say minus the major championships, what would you like to see?

I am going to go -14.

We need more tournaments like the last two to average out the birdie fests.

I have an awful sinus infection and don't feel like typing anymore so I will leave it at that.

What say you??

Even

-12

I would like to see an average of -10 or so. Most between -15 and -5 with a few -20 and a few E.

Probably -12 to -16...that's four rounds in the 60s (on avg). I'm fine with a tournament hitting -20 on occasion. -25 is dumb.

I certainly don't mind what Bay Hill was this past week either...at least at a venue like the Palmer Invitational...but I doubt fans and/or players would enjoy getting beat up at an average tour stop every other week.

And as for the Majors:

- Masters: -8 to -12
- PGA: -10 to -14
- US Open: -2 to -6
- The Open: -6 to -10

Every fairway like a bowling alley. Every bunker like a pit from hell. Every green like the volcano hole on a miniature golf course.

+2

There is no penalty for hitting the ball into the sand!

You should not be able to hit a ball out of a fairway bunker 210 and stick it 8 feet. That's not a sandtrap, that's a mat on the driving range...

If you hit the ball in the fairway, you should be able to hit the ball on the green and be rewarded. Having greens running 14 15 on the stimpmeter, is not golf...

I wanna see high scores. Shanks, topped shots, OBs... Hooken****ers. 4 putts.

Every tournament like the US Open. 6 inch rough and 10 yard wide fairways. Rock hard Porcelain like greens.

Winning score of +4

-12 or so sounds good. That would be someone shooting 69 for 4 days assuming par 72 course, which sounds perfectly fair. Its not like other professional sports make their athletes perform on a field so different than when they weren't pros so why should golf? I do agree with the poster above about sand traps; that should be a "penalty" if you hit into one.

I don't understand why there are sand bunkers... Green side bunkers are no longer penalizing for the pros. And if they're going to make fairway sand bunkers, make the lip 10 feet tall so it is penalizing.

Otherwise, I vote for 6-12 inch grass-rough bunkers to replace all sand bunker.

They should fill/make the bunkers like sand from the beach.

10' tall lip? I'd like to see that too now that you mention it

98Ag99Grad said:

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10' tall lip? I'd like to see that too now that you mention it

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[url=https://postimages.org/][/url]

Just don't think there's an answer for bunkers. The pros are simply too good for them to bother them, unless they get a really bad lie. But bunkers serve their purpose for the rest of us, and you can't build a course for the one week a year the pros play it.

I don't really have a score in mind, but I do tend to agree that when you can't hold a green with a well hit 7 iron from a tee box, that's arguably a problem.

I kinda wish there was one tournament a year that played at your local south Dallas goat ranch. Bare dirt rough, patchy greens, concrete sand traps, standing water in the fairways when it hasn't rained in a month. Let's see how good these guys really are.

If the sand traps looked like this, pros would not be nearly as good. have the grounds crew just walk around them in the morning (instead of raking them) or have them drop medicine balls or something...

Some ideas on bunkers. Never raked as mentioned. Hard nasty sand that most of us have played in. Or, just remove as mentioned and go super thick rough.

I think an average of -8 to -12 is good.

Depends on the course

Even to -10

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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I kinda wish there was one tournament a year that played at your local south Dallas goat ranch. Bare dirt rough, patchy greens, concrete sand traps, standing water in the fairways when it hasn't rained in a month. Let's see how good these guys really are.

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I have wondered what they would shoot out at Keeton Park. They'd probably still go pretty low, just would be super annoyed by the crappy greens.

I've said this for a long time. As you say have the grounds crew walk around in the bunkers in the morning and no rakes. We used to call them sand traps. Now they're frequently the preferred landing spot.

98Ag99Grad said:

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That's the best looking goat ranch I've ever seen.

RealTalk said:

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98Ag99Grad said:

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That's the best looking goat ranch I've ever seen.

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Exactly, I'm thinking something with a $30 green fee.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/01/AR2007070101221.html

This is more like it.

Thanks - I've seen that and read the article that Real Talk posted below. I just want to see them on my particular $27 greens fee course.

I don't want harder courses on tour. Do you enjoy watching a guy have a long discussion with his caddy, back off his shot three times and change clubs back and forth? No thanks.

RealTalk said:

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/01/AR2007070101221.html

This is more like it.

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Thanks. I actually hadn't seen this article on the topic before.

snowaggie said:

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I don't want harder courses on tour. Do you enjoy watching a guy have a long discussion with his caddy, back off his shot three times and change clubs back and forth? No thanks.

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No and TV doesn't have to show it. But I love seeing pros hit horrid shots.

Gary Woodland skulled a wedge into a bunker on Saturday. That was fun to watch

ORAggieFan said:

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Some ideas on bunkers. Never raked as mentioned. Hard nasty sand that most of us have played in. Or, just remove as mentioned and go super thick rough.

I think an average of -8 to -12 is good.

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So the problem I have is what they call fair and equitable...

If I roll into the trap and get a perfect lie, and my playing partner rolls into the exact same bunker, and is in a 3 inch footprint. How is that fair, and how does that help fairly and accurately determine a true champion, it doesn't.

I do agree with you, sand needs to be a punishment. I have been saying for years, put play ground sand in the bunker. Where if you hit it in the bunker all you can do it sand wedge it out. Your not hitting it 215 pin high 7 feet.

I also don't think a 14 on the stimp meter is golf... Don't agree? All you had to do is watch Sunday...

3 and 4 putts from 6 feet? Again, not testing skill, testing luck...

oldschool87 said:

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ORAggieFan said:

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Some ideas on bunkers. Never raked as mentioned. Hard nasty sand that most of us have played in. Or, just remove as mentioned and go super thick rough.

I think an average of -8 to -12 is good.

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So the problem I have is what they call fair and equitable...

If I roll into the trap and get a perfect lie, and my playing partner rolls into the exact same bunker, and is in a 3 inch footprint. How is that fair, and how does that help fairly and accurately determine a true champion, it doesn't.

I do agree with you, sand needs to be a punishment. I have been saying for years, put play ground sand in the bunker. Where if you hit it in the bunker all you can do it sand wedge it out. Your not hitting it 215 pin high 7 feet.

I also don't think a 14 on the stimp meter is golf... Don't agree? All you had to do is watch Sunday...

3 and 4 putts from 6 feet? Again, not testing skill, testing luck...

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It's more unfair to have one piped down the fairway end up in a divot…..

ORAggieFan said:

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oldschool87 said:

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ORAggieFan said:

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Some ideas on bunkers. Never raked as mentioned. Hard nasty sand that most of us have played in. Or, just remove as mentioned and go super thick rough.

I think an average of -8 to -12 is good.

---

So the problem I have is what they call fair and equitable...

If I roll into the trap and get a perfect lie, and my playing partner rolls into the exact same bunker, and is in a 3 inch footprint. How is that fair, and how does that help fairly and accurately determine a true champion, it doesn't.

I do agree with you, sand needs to be a punishment. I have been saying for years, put play ground sand in the bunker. Where if you hit it in the bunker all you can do it sand wedge it out. Your not hitting it 215 pin high 7 feet.

I also don't think a 14 on the stimp meter is golf... Don't agree? All you had to do is watch Sunday...

3 and 4 putts from 6 feet? Again, not testing skill, testing luck...

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It's more unfair to have one piped down the fairway end up in a divot…..

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Wouldn't argue that a bit.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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I don't understand why there are sand bunkers... Green side bunkers are no longer penalizing for the pros.

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Viktor Hovland would disagree with you right now.

My favorite tournaments are where they are -2, -4 ish. The pros still beat the course, but the course makes them really earn it.

I do think they should make bunkers deeper so that they are more punitive. Especially fairway bunkers.
I also think that when Tiger came around they thought length was the magical solution, and got away from the subtle things that make a course hard (shots that mess with sight lines, risk reward shots etc). Or even the simple things, like narrowing the fairways. If someone can hit it 330, make them hit it into a 20 yard wide window instead of a 30 or 40 yard wide one. Then plant more trees and let the rough grow a bit. Right now missing the fairway isn't punitive outside of bad luck, the US Open or the really long stuff at the British.