So I just finished re-shafting an old set of Greg Norman blades(circa 1989 I think). I got them cheap off of ebay mostly just to mess around with. I was wondering what exactly the difference is between a modern blade and something 20+ years old. did a little googling and came across this article from a few years ago. the comments are interesting and I figured it would be lively discussion here.

http://www.oobgolf.com/content/the+wedge+guy/golf+equipment/5-2032-Blades_Versus_Cavity_Backs_A_Golf_Club_Epiphany.html

The gist of the article is that more players can play blades than they think, and that it might actually help you hone your game. the author makes the distinction that cavity backs are for "shot improvement" rather than real "game improvement."

This is actually the philosophy my dad used when teaching us kids. "learn on blades and you can hit anything, cavity backs just hide swing flaws." we played our chi chi rodriguez jr. blades for a long time. he eventually built us and himself some players cavities when he got older and was no longer a true scratch. More than anything he wanted the stronger lofts of newer clubs to regain some distance.

I never stuck with the game for more than a few weeks at a time, so I never got any good, but this is the philosophy I held for a long time. I've always hated the look and feel of a cavity back. I picked up the game again about a year ago. after finally breaking 100 I gave in last summer and bought some snake eyes super-game-improvement irons and hybrids from golfsmith. The game got a little easier, but my scores didn't really improve. Winter hit and my clubs went in the closet for 4 months. Started playing again recently, tweaked a few things, and my swing is the best it's ever been. Shooting low 90's consistently, losing strokes in the short game more than off the tee. The blow up holes get me like every other high handicapper. Sunday I had 5 pars which is a lot for me. also had a quad and two triples on my way to a 94 on a tough course I'd never seen before.

This weekend while playing in the high winds I was routinely frustrated by my inability to hit the knock down shot. I just couldn't keep the ball down and couldn't figure out why. The next day I went to the golfsmith HQ store and hit some snake eyes forged cavities I've been looking at. Hit a couple of regular shots to warm up, then tried hitting a knockdown. Boom. Perfect. I decided right then to build up those old blades and see what happens.

Took them to the range yesterday and couldn't be happier. The feel off the clubface is incredible, and I was able to work the ball high and low with every club. We'll see how it goes, but I like actually getting feedback on every shot. I thought I'd be intimidated by the small clubhead on the long irons, but I hit them just as long as my cavity backs despite the weaker lofts

I think there is some merit to the feedback that blades provide. However, I also think you can get the best of both worlds with cavity back as long as you know the tell-tale swing issue signs to look for. I'm constantly examining where I'm contacting the ball on the clubface, initial direction, trajectory, left-right spin, consistency of distance, etc. A cavity-back can make small issues easier to ignore until they're bigger issues, but if you know what signs to look for, you can still catch them and correct them while they're still small. And in the meantime, you don't have to live with an ugly result.

I'd like to see an Iron Byron test with current equipment, to see if his data holds any merit.

I initially played with Callaway X-14 irons, and my scores were predictably in the high 90s, low 100s. However, my game (i.e. swing and confidence) was very low with them.

I then switched to some Hogan Apex Plus irons, and my scores were high 90s. And my swing and confidence improved.

I currently use Ping i15 irons, and I'm mid to high 80s on a good day and low to mid 90s on a bad day. (This for the most part is true.)

My thoughts:

- Modern blades are indeed more forgiving than 20-30 year old blades. As one who started out on Hogan PCs and owned several sets of blades over the years, I can attest to this. MP-69s for instance, have a flighted muscle which makes the long irons much easier to launch than older blades. Perimeter mis hits are better also.

- Disagree that cavity backs and game improvement irons mask bad habits. There are many very good irons out there, and a lot of them feel as good as blades when struck well. They sure feel more forgiving to me, also.

- Super game improvement irons, however, do mask some bad habits in my opinion. Maybe not so much "mask" them as much as they discourage good swing habits, but not necessarily for every one. Personally I can't hit club heads this large very well, others can hit them just fine. In my case, looking down at huge top line and lots of offset at address makes me want to make manufacture a different swing. And I don't get as much feedback as I need if I'm hitting it toward the toe.

My opinion: Play the most forgiving club you can as long as it appeals to you at address. If it's a compact blade, go for it. If it's a huge SGI iron but it still encourages you to make a fundamentally sound swing, that's fine too.

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I'm constantly examining where I'm contacting the ball on the clubface, initial direction, trajectory, left-right spin, consistency of distance, etc. A cavity-back can make small issues easier to ignore until they're bigger issues, but if you know what signs to look for, you can still catch them and correct them while they're still small

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I would agree. things like this are always anecdotal, which I think is the big lesson here. there are people that get really bent out of shape when a high handicapper looks at or plays blades. I’ve seen it happen here, on the course, and in the store.

My opinion may be skewed because although I haven’t put in the time to get consistent, I was taught the fundamentals of the game by a scratch golfer. I understand things about the swing reading ball flight that a lot of high handicappers probably don’t. it’s just that certain things I was told growing up are starting to click with me now

I’m to the point now where I don’t often mis-hit a ball. When I make a bad swing it’s a complete breakdown. my downswing will start with my body lunging towards the target and things just get nasty from there. Lately I’ve even been able to feel it coming as my downswing starts, and actually stop my swing.

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When I make a bad swing it’s a complete breakdown.

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Same here. And same for many people.

And the most forgiving club in the world won't help, but for some reason those who bash blade players think 40-50 grams of steel moved to the perimeter of the club will fix that.

To each his own. I do get annoyed hearing people bash people who play blades. I played blades when I was a 12 HC when I "had no business playing blades". Using those same irons I worked down to sub a 5 HC. I now play cavity backs and couldn't be happier.

To stay more on topic: I have noticed that it's easier for me to "get lazy" using my current irons. A slight mis-hit gives me pretty decent ball flight and distance consistency.

One thing cavity backs won't fix is a bad case of the blocks, (my current affliction.)

[This message has been edited by AgPrognosticator (edited 5/2/2012 4:40p).]

i don't ever want to get rid of my Hogan Apex Plus irons

I managed to drop my handicap a couple of points after getting mp-32's, a forgiving type of "blade/muscleback". Like AgProg, I don't really care what others have to say. I play the game for myself and my enjoyment, not for what others think of me.

I think game improvement clubs help the most on off-center hits. It also aids in getting the ball in the air.

You're gonna slice, hook, hit it fat/thin, etc., all the same with a forged or cavity-backed club.

If you're consistently hitting the sweet spot, there's no reason why you can't play with forged irons irrespective of your handicap.

Forged cavity backs

Forged Cavity Backs are going to be my next set of irons.

Great thread. I'm going to try hitting my old blades again for fun. Maybe I'll play a round or two with them. And Apex Plus are game improvement! Ha

i'll be giving these a hard look if the blades work out. demoed them on sunday and really like them.

The Mizuno MP 33 muscle back forged blade is the best blade ever made. Hit some if you haven't. After that everything may be put into perspective.

[This message has been edited by txaginaz (edited 5/3/2012 9:29a).]

I still play the Mizuno MP-29s...I have yet to be motivated into buying newer. I did like the Titleist 710 blades from last year though.

It bothers me none what anyone else plays, nor does it bother me if it bothers you what I play...

forged is absolutely the only way to go, regardless.

Though I play Titleist AP1's currently, I have a set of Titleist 735CM's that I played for a while and still pull out from time to time.

If you're not a single digit handicap but like the look and feel of blades, this is a type of iron to consider. They have the look and feel of blades, but are blended. They're forged like blades. Short irons are essentially blades. Long irons are more of a muscle back, and the mid irons are blended somewhere in between.

Though the AP1's (forged cavity back) are more forgiving, I don't hit the ball significantly better with those vs. the 735CM's. It's really about the mis-hits, where the AP1-type irons display far less dispersion on off center strikes.

I play Wilson Staff fg62 blades bought new in 2011. They replaced my late nineties Hogan Apex irons, the best blades ever produced in the USA.


I agree with a lot of that article. I do not have a tone of experience with new cavities but they must be better than the old stuff if so many pros use them. However, The last set of cavities I played were TM Rac's after my back injury in 2004. I played them for a while until I was back in the '70's I was a better golfer the moment I put the Apex irons back in the bag. They and my WIlsons are far more precise, feel great, and look great at address. There are things I can do with those irons that I couldnt do with the best cavities in the world seven or eight years ago. I have no idea about the last generation of cavities and probably wont know about the next.

Out of our regular 6-8 golfers I play with every week, three of them are 6-9 handicapper. They break eighty on a semi regular occasion. They all play cavity back irons. I keep telling them that blades will make them better but they wont listen, even though they love hitting mine on the range.

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Though the AP1's (forged cavity back) are more forgiving, I don't hit the ball significantly better with those vs. the 735CM's. It's really about the mis-hits, where the AP1-type irons display far less dispersion on off center strikes.

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FYI; AP1's are not forged...hope you didn't buy them based on that...AP2, CB, & MB are forged, but not the AP1. Sorry ~

I played Hogan Apex blades for years and loved them. Played probably the best golf of my life with them. Bought my current clubs (Tourstage MR-23 CB) after a lot of reading, looking, and testing because I hated the look of anything but a thin topline and minimal offset. I can hit any shot with these that I could with my Hogans and the additional forgiveness fit me well because I was not able to practice and play as much after getting out of school and starting a family.

Parting shot would be that there is something to be said about how few tour pros that play blades these days.

1208 HawkTree-You are probably right with the simple point of how many pros dont play blades anymore. That being said Taylor Made had completely discontinued them and at one point teh Callaway blades were special order only until recently. Both manufacturers have come back with a blade. I can only assume that was a demand decision.

I dont doubt for a second that there are cavity backs out there that are every bit as good as blades. Especially the Mizuno lines. People see my Wilsons and assume they are the same as Harrington's clubs. He plays the FG tours and has played the FG 62's in the short irons. Too your point. But I do not believe cavity backs will necessarily make a player better. Solid contact is solid contact no matter what club you play.